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leesrt
Guest
Thank for handling that. I spent 8 years running radar and laser. In GA we are also trained to not run radar on curves and inclines. Part of it is the greatest weight is placed on our observation, not the radar. The radar just confirms what we observed. In GA it is in our traffic laws that we can't run radar in the above situations and must be visible for at least 500' in the direction we are running the radar.
I could go on but this cop wasn't running radar. He was either on the side of the road after having stopped another vehicle or was waiting for vehicle running to fast for the conditions of the road. At a minimum that rider can be charged for failure to control his vehicle in a safe manor since the patrol car was in know way impeding the bikes proper lane of travel.
Braking hard with the BMW ABS would have likely saved him IMO. ABS has evolved and improved a lot over the years. BMW has ususlly been a leader ie the new 1000 almost total traction control.
For the old (non gyro) ABS the lean angle only effects the braking component(vs the corning compent) of traction. It automatically compensate as it sense wheel slippage and when sense, releases the brakes. So when you are leaning over the ABS triggers sooner because slip happens sooner. On modern systems this now happens many times per second (not the old thumping you had in your chevy;s brake peddle).
For the 90% of us average riders, it is better.safer to brake hard and let the ABS do it's thing to keep you upright and slowed or stopped. Yes an expert rider who is really tuned in to the bike, its tires and traction can do better. If you do go down with ABS you will have likely scrubbed off more speed and hit slower than you would have if you had the ABS off. The max braking is just before sliding, the coefficent of traction of a sliding tire is much less than a rotating tire. The ABS keeps you in this max braking zone longer.
ABS has saved my butt twice. Thanks BMW.
yah slowing down would be safer but not as much fun
For the old (non gyro) ABS the lean angle only effects the braking component(vs the corning compent) of traction. It automatically compensate as it sense wheel slippage and when sense, releases the brakes. So when you are leaning over the ABS triggers sooner because slip happens sooner. On modern systems this now happens many times per second (not the old thumping you had in your chevy;s brake peddle).
For the 90% of us average riders, it is better.safer to brake hard and let the ABS do it's thing to keep you upright and slowed or stopped. Yes an expert rider who is really tuned in to the bike, its tires and traction can do better. If you do go down with ABS you will have likely scrubbed off more speed and hit slower than you would have if you had the ABS off. The max braking is just before sliding, the coefficent of traction of a sliding tire is much less than a rotating tire. The ABS keeps you in this max braking zone longer.
ABS has saved my butt twice. Thanks BMW.
yah slowing down would be safer but not as much fun
M
Merlin III
Guest
I wasn't comparing the Kanc with those other roads, but only using it to make a point about the way people drive. The "gentle short sweep" of a road is only one variable. Two other very important variables are the speed that vehicles are traveling and the density of traffic. Have you ever been on the Kanc on a Saturday in August? The last time I was there the traffic was heavy in both directions with hundreds of bicyclists riding in the travel lanes.
I don't know what it is, but it seems that everyone from bicyclists to Winnebago drivers feel the need to play on the curves at maximum speeds. I don't particularly find that environment a lot of fun after the first time.
roborider
God? What god?
That's a good point: there is not enough information in that video to impugn the officer-I could have made a bad assumption there.
There is enough evidence to say the rider was going above the speed limit, but I would not say he was reckless or dangerous. He over reacted to seeing the cop and instead of straightening up and braking, or continuing his curve on plan, he made the poor choice of over braking. ABS saving him? I don't know, maybe.
It's too bad it happened, he was riding well before that over reaction!
ANDYVH
New member
I agree, the officer was doing nothing here to cause the rider to do what he did. I'd estimate the rider's speed was nothing to cause concern as he looked ok in the previous corner, unless that area of the road is posted as 35 mph. My bet is he would have done just fine through that turn had he simply maintained steady throttle and lean angle, and rode through the turn.
If the officer felt he was riding recklessly, then he could choose to go after the rider. My bet, and my experience tells me, "opps, a cop, well ok I'll notch it down a bit and see if he wants to talk." If so, we'd talk. If not, I may have proved to the officer that I at least had some riding abilities to control the bike through the turn, and felt I was given a reprieve and ride a bit more sedately.
All the rider did was freak out and prove to the officer he really couldn't ride well enough to adjust to "something" in his riding environment. ABS would not have helped at all by the time he locked up the front brake. The rider screwed up (as is almost always the case) and over-reacted to what was a benign threat. He did prove to the officer he wasn't the rider he thought he was. If not a cop, how would this rider handle a stalled car in the turn, another downed bike or bicycle, an animal in mid-turn, a rock or sand in the turn. Nope, he just screwed up.
If the officer felt he was riding recklessly, then he could choose to go after the rider. My bet, and my experience tells me, "opps, a cop, well ok I'll notch it down a bit and see if he wants to talk." If so, we'd talk. If not, I may have proved to the officer that I at least had some riding abilities to control the bike through the turn, and felt I was given a reprieve and ride a bit more sedately.
All the rider did was freak out and prove to the officer he really couldn't ride well enough to adjust to "something" in his riding environment. ABS would not have helped at all by the time he locked up the front brake. The rider screwed up (as is almost always the case) and over-reacted to what was a benign threat. He did prove to the officer he wasn't the rider he thought he was. If not a cop, how would this rider handle a stalled car in the turn, another downed bike or bicycle, an animal in mid-turn, a rock or sand in the turn. Nope, he just screwed up.
roborider
God? What god?
That's where we differ! I notch it UP. A lot, and run, lights or no lights. I don't know that road, so I don't know how far he is to an egress, but if it is within a mile or two, I'd be long gone before that officer could make that U turn and pull me over. I'd rather not talk to him if I could avoid it!
greenwald
New member
Wow!
First an advocate of 'mirrors only and no head checks' on a neighboring thread, and now an 'eluding manifesto.'
Nothing personal, RoboRider - but you gotta admit - never a dull moment around here on the Forum these days!
L
leesrt
Guest
Wow!
First an advocate of 'mirrors only and no head checks' on a neighboring thread, and now an 'eluding manifesto.'
Nothing personal, RoboRider - but you gotta admit - never a dull moment around here on the Forum these days!
What some say they will do and what they actually do are many times very different. At the time, what they say is usually what ever gets the most attention.
I tell my wife I'm watching what ever the hell I want on TV (on the inside)
(On the outside) yes dear, we can watch the Opera special.
greenwald
New member
Opera?!
Wuss.
As for RoboRider - hey - we both own '05 RT's and enjoy Scuba, so I 'gots to cut him some slack!!
roborider
God? What god?
Wow!
First an advocate of 'mirrors only and no head checks' on a neighboring thread, and now an 'eluding manifesto.'
Nothing personal, RoboRider - but you gotta admit - never a dull moment around here on the Forum these days!
Kevin: No head checks? What is that about?
And I'm not advocating running from a cop with lights on and chasing you. I'm saying to get out before he has time to get that far. If I have a cop behind me with lights on, chasing me, I'd pull over for certain. But, on a bike, I have never had that happen.
pffog
Small road corner junkie
I would never run, but I kind of agree, if you dramatically change what you are doing, stab, brakes, slow extremely, etc., it is almost an admission of guilt, and an invitation for them to pounce.
Show confidence, and skill and a few less bells and whistles may be triggered.
Show confidence, and skill and a few less bells and whistles may be triggered.
pffog
Small road corner junkie
Absolutely, no lights no reason to act guilty.
Although that got my oldest son in trouble once. He and a friend were on a rural road, running a little over the limit, they popped over a hill and there was a local cop going the other way, they saw him turn, and backed down to 5-7 over, cop followed them for a couple of miles, no siren, no lights. They just kept riding, next thing they know they round a corner and there was a state trooper sideways across their lane with his gun out!!!
They pulled over and the sheriff skidded to a halt behind them, jumped out and started screaming at them, accusing them of trying to run!! Son replied, you never turned on your lights and siren, how the heck did we know you wanted us to stop. Sheriff was still screaming at them when the trooper, who responded to a call of Motorcycles running, actually came to their defense and agreed with them. After Trooper calmed the overzealous sheriff down, son only got a speeding ticket, his friend, who had his Desert Storm tee shirt on, (he had served), got a pass just for that.
Next time maybe the Sheriff will try to use something beside telepathic powers, when he tries to pull people over.
greenwald
New member
Seriously, Robo - on another thread, an advocate (not you) for mirrors only ... no head checks. Whew!
As for doing a disappearing act before the chase becomes official, that's just semantics.
It just baits the cop to risk his/her life and perform maneuvers that might put others at risk in an effort to try and regain a visual on you. Been there.
Still think you'd be a hoot to sit down with over a beer!
pffog
Small road corner junkie
Sorry that's on the cops shoulders, if he risks life and limb for a $200 ticket, that shows poor judgment on his part. They are suppose to be there to increase safety, not throw it out the window, to save me from myself.
Although a highly publicized case in NY disagrees (so far) http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/carncross_motorcycle_chase_cas.html.
To add to the story, from memory. Rider clocked at approx 100 MPH on a winding country road, trooper going the other way, trooper called in pursuit to dispatch, about a mile later trooper looses control of his SUV, on a corner at over 100mph, crashes and dies. Trooper never had rider in sight with lights on. IMHO, it is a tragedy, and rider did trigger events, but is in no way directly responsible for the following events, particularly aggravated criminally negligent homicide.
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roborider
God? What god?
Seriously, Robo - on another thread, an advocate (not you) for mirrors only ... no head checks. Whew!
As for doing a disappearing act before the chase becomes official, that's just semantics.
It just baits the cop to risk his/her life and perform maneuvers that might put others at risk in an effort to try and regain a visual on you. Been there.
Still think you'd be a hoot to sit down with over a beer!
Ah, I see, I though you meant me on the mirrors. Got it now.
But I don't think it is semantics. If I throttle up and go, I have no idea if the cop decided to follow. For all I know, he's still sitting there on the side of the road reading his news paper (no more donut jokes!).
And I agree with PFFOG, if he decides to follow, his decision and his driving is his responsibility, not mine!
If I ever see you in person, I'll buy that beer!
And head over to the ride reports forum to see a recent 3 day dirt bike ride I did. There's a place you can go as fast as you please, but 50 mph is about tops--just seems like 100 mph.
tinytrains
Still plays with trains.
Of course that does not always work as planned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPWaWKQWxlA&feature=related
roborider
God? What god?
Keep in mind your video shows the exact thing I said I DON'T do. I have too much to risk professionally, and I wouldn't piss on the law to that extent. I don't "run" from cops with lights and siren. If I can get a jump, and go and never see lights and siren, great. But once the lights come on, I'd pull over.
Damn, though, if those guys could ride, and they had an egress, they should have been able to get away....
Damn, though, if those guys could ride, and they had an egress, they should have been able to get away....
