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Kiss riding, Idaho, Rt.12, good bye!

Malaszka

New member
Seems that one of the best rides in the Idaho pan handle between Lewiston, ID and Lolo, MT is to be gutted to roll mammoth machinery, 2 lanes wide to the Alberta Tar Sands. This will be a permanent industrial corridor! check out allagainstthehaul it's chilling! Even with all the oppostition these machines are poised and waiting at the port of Lewiston!
 
looks like a pretty lopsided website to me. They tell you nothing about the other side of the story so that you can form your own opinion, just express all of the talking points against.

These kind of websites make me pretty suspicious. I did research and read about this proposal after reading the website you reference. There is a lot of environmentalist type info on the web, but there seems to be quite a lack of much good information that is not heavily lopsided.

460
 
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Tar sands???

Allow me to correct your terminolgy, the proper name is the Alberta oil sands. Tar is not being refined there, oil is and the major customer for this oil is the U.S. Think about how well your engine would run if it truly was tar. Whenever someone says tar sands, it is obvious to me they have never been there. I've been there many times and while there are valid environmental issues, past & present, action is being taken by government & industry. For more than just one side of the story, check out www.capp.ca/oilsands. Hope this doesn't sound too political.
 
Seems that one of the best rides in the Idaho pan handle between Lewiston, ID and Lolo, MT is to be gutted to roll mammoth machinery, 2 lanes wide

I rode this route to Redmond for the rally and talked to several people working in coffee shops, cafe's etc along this very scenic and wonderful motorcycle road. What struck me was the loss of local work created by tourist traffic for the locals in Idaho and the huge loss to all of us of a beautiful riding experience if this were to come to pass. I vividly remember one very nice lady serving me an expresso with side of a very nice breakfast bagel with tears in her eyes at the thought of losing her livelihood and the thought of turning a quiet two-laner into four lanes of traffic that stopped for nothing. If the road is truly needed, I would hope a less invasive route might be found.
 
A rather somber note in this sad story is the massive equipment exxonmobile needs to move on these roads was made in South Korea.
 
I rode this route to Redmond for the rally and talked to several people working in coffee shops, cafe's etc along this very scenic and wonderful motorcycle road. What struck me was the loss of local work created by tourist traffic for the locals in Idaho and the huge loss to all of us of a beautiful riding experience if this were to come to pass. I vividly remember one very nice lady serving me an expresso with side of a very nice breakfast bagel with tears in her eyes at the thought of losing her livelihood and the thought of turning a quiet two-laner into four lanes of traffic that stopped for nothing. If the road is truly needed, I would hope a less invasive route might be found.

weird. i rode this on the way to redmond, too, and no one said a thing.

the site referenced is indeed very one-sided. reading the exxon site, it seems like the plan is to return the road to near its original form after the project. A decent source of reference for this is here. (see page S-3)

the question we need to ask ourselves: do we wish to achieve energy independence or do we want to continue to be held hostage by less-than-friendly foreign sources?

ian

ps => my prediction is that this thread will not end well. :nono
 
Rinty & Visian, thanks for posting those links. As suspected the viewpoint presented in the OP's website is no where near truthful.

As Visian stated, we must each make a decision based on our personal beliefs, and our country is very divided on this issue & many others. Hopefully it can be discussed here in an amicable way.

460
 
A rather somber note in this sad story is the massive equipment exxonmobile needs to move on these roads was made in South Korea.

the oil business is global like no other business.

imagine if exxon proposed a facility to build this equipment on the banks of the Columbia river.

ian
 
Back in the day, Louisiana came out of much of the Carpetbagger history when "oil" companies started drilling there. Then drilling offshore...was another huge increase in the "economy"...

Today, things are changing.

If we are not allowed (although we CAN do it) to drill offshore, that is killing Louisiana.

Make as much of the "arrival" of your new economy... it won't last long.

I cannot recall riding / driving in Louisiana and never being behind an 18 wheeler... it was just part of the price of progress...
 
If we are not allowed (although we CAN do it) to drill offshore, that is killing Louisiana.

Make as much of the "arrival" of your new economy... it won't last long.

a clean energy economy is possible, but the transition will take a lot longer than most expect. most realistic projections i read say we'll still be putting gas in our bikes in 2030.

we currently import over 50% of the oil we consume. strategically speaking, we MUST stop using fossil fuels as quickly as possible.

however, since the transition to clean energy will take so long we must also continue to invest in conventional resources. which means making the very hard choices that this thread is about.

ian
 
oh, and....

maybe louisiana can profit from tidal energy generation?

figure_7.jpg



and here are the government projections for electricity:

figure_6.jpg


myself, i am looking for investments in carbon capture/algae/biofuels.
 
HMMMM Seems like in the long run the road may benefit if they do improve the route along the way and leave it as original as they can. If they move one or two loads at night, how is that going to hurt the economy and tourism? I have ridden Lolo at night and can tell you its not fun. I just don't see any harm in moving large loads up it at night.
 
What sticks in my craw about this is that this rural, historic (Lewis and Clark Route) and scenic roadway will need to be widened and straightened to accomodate the passing equipment. Long and wide pull outs need to be constructed either along the river, or cut into the mountainside. That means earthwork, leaving raw rock faces on one side, and vacant lots on the other.

Fishing interests (the Locksaw River is a world class fishing river, and also world class rafting) are concerned that beyond the impact to the scenic qualities the denuding of the surrounding landscape will diminish shade on the water which allows the water to capture more heat. The fish there are sensitive to temperature, and many pacific salmons are listed species. Because the natural character of the site has no value to monied interests it has no value.

Without criticising the oil sands project, the alternative of running the pieces through the Panama Canal and up the Mississippi would utilize facilities that are already industrial. Of course it would cost more, but with an alternative readily available it makes no sense to me to forever change a rural and scenic site into something less.
 

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HMMMM Seems like in the long run the road may benefit if they do improve the route along the way and leave it as original as they can. If they move one or two loads at night, how is that going to hurt the economy and tourism? I have ridden Lolo at night and can tell you its not fun. I just don't see any harm in moving large loads up it at night.


I often drive Hwy 63 to Ft.McMurray & have to pull over (I drive a semi) for these massive loads; some of them at 600,000lbs. Up here they usually move only in daylight with many pilot cars & at times a police escort. They pass through large & small towns with little room to spare, on narrow roads at times, across two lane bridges, under power lines, you get the idea. They pass beside rivers, lakes, in blizzards, icy roads, hills, heavy traffic & wildlife to contend with also. Me thinks the routes here were researched, scouted & problem areas identified well before approval was given. It would be very surprising, imho, if our experience was not taken into account by the companies & authorities in your country. Our process has been going on longer & will continue for much longer than two years. There are some who complain about these big loads being dangerous due to the oversize . Any time I've seen a problem it was due to an impatient motorist ignoring common sense & the pilot cars to pass instead of waiting to reach a pull out.
It is to both our countries benefit to develop this resource & for America to have a stable & friendly energy supplier. We will not be replacing fossil fuels for many years, I cannot think of a friend I would rather see us partner with (and not at any cost to the environment as is claimed). We are America's leading petroleum energy supplier eh? Thanks for the soap box.:ca:usa
 
That was my point exactly! Why degrade yet another of the last remaining areas of pristine land and rivers? I like your solution!
 
Curious, an article in the Oregonian (don't laugh!) as of the 5th says the permits for the shipments to travel rt 12 have not been obtained yet for equipment bound for Canada. I checked other news sites and areas to research this a bit, and other than the tree hugger sites, I have yet to see anything saying this route is going to become a 4 lane super highway funded by cutting down all the trees. Some turn outs will be built (could be safer for all later), some utilities will have to be moved or buried (a good thing, restores the natural views) but I don't see anythin that leads me to believe this little Canadian adventure that will benefit the US will ruin this area.

And I would like to think that even though this would help the US, that the people that make the rules, the government, would actually follow their owns rules about the environment etc and if approved would monitor this activity and safe guard our lands that we ask them to. Sorry, I am silly that way, kind of think that despite how self serving government can be that it still tries to do its best most of the time.

And don't know about alternate routes, seems that some of the items are rather tall, too tall for inter state freeways. Don't know about the height of the bridges on the Mississippi and if they would fit under those. One article described some items as 3 stories tall, 24 feet wide and 75 yards long.
 
Seems like in the long run, the road may benefit...Sit

That's how I see it. Exxon is spending 50 million in the two states. Much of that will be for permits and supervisory labour. You're not going to do any major re alignments or widening with that kind of dough. And Exxon isn't going to build a superhighway for 200 loads.

It is to both our countries' benefit...airoilheadbeemerguy

According to a recent article in the Globe and Mail, there is a looming labour crunch as the next wave of oil sands developments proceed (there were three major projects announced last month, alone). These developments, coupled with aluminum and natural gas projects in B.C., potash and uranium developments in Saskatchewan, and oil and nickel developments on the East Coast, are going to result in a full blown labour crisis.

Traditional labour pools in Quebec and Atlantic Canada are drying up, and some firms are already looking to the U.S. for skilled labour. Areas such as Michigan, Ohio, and Minnesota have "trades that could be made available...", according to one construction VP.

Already, engineering work is being out sourced to firms in Texas and India.
 
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