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ka5ysy
2011 R1200RT
I agree fully. We had a girl in a class this past weekend, learning to ride, and having never, ever, ridden a MC before. Several weeks ago she went to her local friendly dealer, who convinced her that she needed the R1 she thought was "cute". Anybody here want to take bets on how quickly she hurts/kills herself .
ka5ysy
2011 R1200RT
Yeah; what the hell's the matter with us?
I'm thinkin' not enough Airhead input ...
We are all "Old Farts"
ka5ysy
2011 R1200RT
I would guess the quoted manager drinks the cool aid regularly and never goes to HOG meetings
B
bobh41
Guest
The Attraction of Motorcycling
I actually had in mind discovering (as we did on the track day) how relatively safe a motorcycle can be if a person learns how to ride it. I definitely do not recommend race track level operation on the street; I've done a couple of track days, and I don't ride like that on the street or highway.
I think trying to represent motorcycle riding as a safe or convenient or economical replacement for automobile transportation is a fallacy. It may actually convince an innocent buyer to purchase a motorcycle, but as in the stated case (young girl newby), it surely would be a disservice to her.
I actually had in mind discovering (as we did on the track day) how relatively safe a motorcycle can be if a person learns how to ride it. I definitely do not recommend race track level operation on the street; I've done a couple of track days, and I don't ride like that on the street or highway.
I think trying to represent motorcycle riding as a safe or convenient or economical replacement for automobile transportation is a fallacy. It may actually convince an innocent buyer to purchase a motorcycle, but as in the stated case (young girl newby), it surely would be a disservice to her.
Harley Davidson just reported that in spite of sagging sales, profit tripled in the third quarter. Mainly due to stricter lending practices that helped the Financing Unit to return to profitability from a year-earlier loss.
They also reported that the botched aquisition of MV Agusta cost them $264 Million, including the $105 Million original aquisition price.
They also reported that the botched aquisition of MV Agusta cost them $264 Million, including the $105 Million original aquisition price.
ka5ysy
2011 R1200RT
Harley Davidson just reported that in spite of sagging sales, profit tripled in the third quarter. Mainly due to stricter lending practices that helped the Financing Unit to return to profitability from a year-earlier loss.
They also reported that the botched aquisition of MV Agusta cost them $264 Million, including the $105 Million original aquisition price.
T-shirt sales must be up !
mika
Still Wondering
T-shirt sales must be up !
Revenue from Parts and Accessories totaled $219.0 million during the quarter, down 1.2 percent, and revenue from General Merchandise, which includes MotorClothes?« apparel, was $64.1 million, down 9.4 percent compared to the year-ago period.
Looks like they were down, does this mean they are riding naked?
I am trying to track down stock ownership distribution. Anyone know of a site or the SEC form to search for? I'm just starting my search thought I would ask.
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
All three of the reasons are inaccurate. It might be safer than skydiving but it is not as safe as other forms of land transportation. It might be more convenient for some if they don't care about protection but it takes me a while to get all of my garb on to ride. Riding a bike might save gas but it doesn't save money. A set of tires cost me about the same as a set on my car but they only last 25% as long. In addition, the cost of insurance, tags and other expenses are on top of the expenses of a 4 wheeler because you still have to have a cage for many things (or you have to have a really good friend to borrow from).
C
criminaldesign
Guest
You couldn't have said it any better. Add brake rotors to the list also.
mika
Still Wondering
Taking that line of thought to its logical extreme why would anyone buy a bike in the first place? If a car is mandatory for life why not maximize the car and avoid the expense of the bike all together? The point is for some of us it makes economic sense or enough economic sense to include our motorcycles as part of our daily commuting plan. It does not work for everyone. I do my own repairs on both and am in a single driver household. I gear up in ATGATT and for some that is a deal breaker. Based on various places I have lived in my riding life I could have lived without either a bike or a cage quiet nicely.
Back to the question embeded in my opening sentace. As we talk with people in general, young old or in between, how do you explain why anyone would buy a bike in the first place? Commuting is but part of the conversation I would have.
Back to the question embeded in my opening sentace. As we talk with people in general, young old or in between, how do you explain why anyone would buy a bike in the first place? Commuting is but part of the conversation I would have.
C
criminaldesign
Guest
Indulgence is what I think, a bike really isn't necessary when it comes down to it. We're all just f**king around on the things and enjoying ourselves. Nothing wrong with that by any means.
It makes me laugh riding in the rain and people are looking at you like you're absurd to do such a thing. We kinda are, and again, nothing wrong with that.
Society wants you to feel guilty for enjoying yourself.
It makes me laugh riding in the rain and people are looking at you like you're absurd to do such a thing. We kinda are, and again, nothing wrong with that.
Society wants you to feel guilty for enjoying yourself.
Harley Davidson Riders . . . .
Two weeks ago my friend Bob and I rode to the North of the Border Rally in Norfolk, VA. We met a 75 year old very serious rider on a R90/6 named Ed.
Ed has many hundreds of thousand miles on BMWs.
Ed works for an auto auction part time. He said that he and his fellow auction workers had moved 300 H-D through the auction as repossessions! I believe he lives near Greensboro, NC.
If they were financed inhouse by H-D they are certainly cutting into the profits.
Campbell Tellman II
'93 R100RT
'11S1000RR
Two weeks ago my friend Bob and I rode to the North of the Border Rally in Norfolk, VA. We met a 75 year old very serious rider on a R90/6 named Ed.
Ed has many hundreds of thousand miles on BMWs.
Ed works for an auto auction part time. He said that he and his fellow auction workers had moved 300 H-D through the auction as repossessions! I believe he lives near Greensboro, NC.
If they were financed inhouse by H-D they are certainly cutting into the profits.
Campbell Tellman II
'93 R100RT
'11S1000RR
ka5ysy
2011 R1200RT
Revenue from Parts and Accessories totaled $219.0 million during the quarter, down 1.2 percent, and revenue from General Merchandise, which includes MotorClothes?« apparel, was $64.1 million, down 9.4 percent compared to the year-ago period.
Looks like they were down, does this mean they are riding naked?
That explains the assless chaps maybe? Cost cutting??
SEC 10-K filings are here. I think this is what you are looking for:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/793952/000119312510108516/0001193125-10-108516-index.htm
The full HD listing is here:
http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-e...exclude&Find=Find+Companies&action=getcompany
Insider trading activity is here:
http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/own-disp?action=getissuer&CIK=0000793952
ka5ysy
2011 R1200RT
Two weeks ago my friend Bob and I rode to the North of the Border Rally in Norfolk, VA. We met a 75 year old very serious rider on a R90/6 named Ed.
Ed has many hundreds of thousand miles on BMWs.
Ed works for an auto auction part time. He said that he and his fellow auction workers had moved 300 H-D through the auction as repossessions! I believe he lives near Greensboro, NC.
If they were financed inhouse by H-D they are certainly cutting into the profits.
Campbell Tellman II
'93 R100RT
'11S1000RR
If you research the problem with the financing division, they were at one time granting approvals for more than 100% the value of the motorcycles, so that accessories and other costs could be rolled into the deal without requirements of a down payment. Essentially HD did the same thing the housing market did; made a lot of loans to people who could put nothing down, nor could they afford the bike based on income and expenses. Simply put: Poor (no) underwriting.
The repo bikes go to auctions where the buyers know it is a fire sale and bid accordingly, adding to the losses incurred.
Hey lets get real honest with the entire thing.....Harley owner dress up in leather and pretend to be "bad boys" (some are) and rumble loud pipes on chrome laden machines.....BMW guys put on $1000 space suits, in the name of "safety" jump on their "nurded out" Gps, fog lite aluminum milk crated bikes headed off to nowhere pretending to be on a sophisticated "tour".
They are motorcycles.....purchased with expendible income....entertainment.....I bet less than 3% of riders in the USA use motorcycles as only source of transporation. You may proudly say you ride to work each day but there is still a car in your garage.
Mac Gregor and Boorman are basically no different than the Orange County Chopper Guys......they create an emotional appeal in our wallets that make us spend money. 25, 35 55 0r 65 we buy what we can afford, we buy what we like......BMW, Harley cost alot of money.....older people generally have more money....
Harley is not the only company to feel the bite of the recession and rethink their business. I see absolutely no competition between the two companies or in marketing strageties. The target market will never be the same.
Disagree. Your statement is too general. While it is correct, that there are markets which are exclusively covered by either brand, there is definitely an overlap. While BMW has significantly more "target markets" than H-D, they share a few. "Long Distance Touring" is the obvious one. Proof of this is in the "company supported" mileage programs which sucker you into logging miles in order to force you to buy a new bike more often. Other proof is that the HD FLH full dresser is still one of the most popular H-D product lines and owners of those do long trips, believe it or not. You may not encounter them because they stay among themselves. But H-D has many, many HOG and H-D sponsored rallies throughout the year and some of them are distance riding rallies that originate in one location and end in another. And don't discount/misjudge the amount of BMW riders who buy/bought a bike just to ride to the local show-off joint. How many S1000RRs do you think were bought and are being used the same way their main Japanese competitor bikes are being used? Food for thought.
marchyman
Cam Killer
Heh... not everyone is that one dimensional. Most of the guys I ride with have multiple bike syndrome. Many of those folks are mix and match, having harleys and beemers and ducatis and others in their garage. The bike they ride depends upon weather, destination, and current mood, tempered by how many vehicles they have to move to get their first choice out of the garage.
I'm in the minority in that I've only two bikes and both are BMW.
ultracyclist
New member
I am joining this party late,
...but I will throw in my two cents.
I do not care who the manufacturer is; if you want more people on bikes for commuting, recreation, or for what ever the reason, then make (or import) bikes that people will buy AND they can afford.
The Europeans and Japanese enjoy such bikes at the Ducati Monster 400 and the Yam MT-03 660 five valve. These bikes and others like them are fast, fuel efficient, and AFFORDABLE. And given the nature of the US economy over the next 6 to 8 years, "affordable" means a lot.
Entry level riders or "commuters" (granted, you can commute on anything) really do not need a liter bike nor an 800+ pound cruiser.
Aging be d****d. If you build or import the right bike, they will come.* Smaller displacement bikes do not discriminate among the "aged", and some of those people may actually want a lighter bike instead of the usual 600-800+ pound machine.
*with apologies to people living in Iowa or baseball fans.
...but I will throw in my two cents.
I do not care who the manufacturer is; if you want more people on bikes for commuting, recreation, or for what ever the reason, then make (or import) bikes that people will buy AND they can afford.
The Europeans and Japanese enjoy such bikes at the Ducati Monster 400 and the Yam MT-03 660 five valve. These bikes and others like them are fast, fuel efficient, and AFFORDABLE. And given the nature of the US economy over the next 6 to 8 years, "affordable" means a lot.
Entry level riders or "commuters" (granted, you can commute on anything) really do not need a liter bike nor an 800+ pound cruiser.
Aging be d****d. If you build or import the right bike, they will come.* Smaller displacement bikes do not discriminate among the "aged", and some of those people may actually want a lighter bike instead of the usual 600-800+ pound machine.
*with apologies to people living in Iowa or baseball fans.
