What a bunch of OLD PEOPLE

I think the lack of younger members of the MOA is simply a result of our changing world. I have been a member of 2 civic organizations for the last 10 years or so. The membership has been dropping and getting older. I have talked with others who have been having the same results with their organizations. We once joined civic organizations and clubs to make friends, get to know people, etc. The younger generations now do that with the electronic media and they don't have or take time to join things that involve participation. My kids are totally involved with their children and don't have time to do anything more than they are doing.

I talked to a guy in Fillmore, UT who is involved with some national umbrella organization for firemen. He is one of 2 reps from Utah. Anyway, he was an active volunteer fireman for 30 years before going inactive. He told me that there are about 800,000 firemen (OK persons) nationally, and that about 80% of them are volunteers. And the average age is 55. Not many young people are getting involved in that, either. This will have much more serious consequences than kids not buying BMW motorcycles if it doesn't change.

osbornk said:

I think the lack of younger members of the MOA is simply a result of our changing world. I have been a member of 2 civic organizations for the last 10 years or so. The membership has been dropping and getting older. I have talked with others who have been having the same results with their organizations. We once joined civic organizations and clubs to make friends, get to know people, etc. The younger generations now do that with the electronic media and they don't have or take time to join things that involve participation. My kids are totally involved with their children and don't have time to do anything more than they are doing.

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I would agree. It's all done electronically by them now, with twitter, etc. Plus, the economic issues remain for the younger of them. As long as a 650cc Japanese bike can be purchased for $3k-$7k, BMW has no chance at attracting the youngest buyers, even if they win at WSB. And the RT and LT have the same stigma for young folks as the Goldwing.....perception is reality for them.

It's so nice to be older and wiser!

hlothery said:

It's so nice to be older and wiser!

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And at our economic peak.......

ultracyclist said:

Not to hijack this thread, but why would I want to spend big bucks on a new bike (any brand) when Craig's List is chock full of used machines that are barely 3 years old with ridiculously low mileage on them?

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Exactly. Same goes for everything; not just motorcycles.

I still stand by; If [insert company name here] was concerned about getting younger consumers, they'd produce a cheaper product.

Hey, Crazy drummer dude!
I mowed lawns in PM's and worked in the post office in the AM's during the high school summers to help pay for college. Very honorable work!
I miss those days.

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It paid for my BMW's, my rent, and my community college. This university nonsense is expensive, though..

"Lower cost of ownership" means chain/belt drive, doesn't it?

Engines not made in Germany.

Other than that, I don't think "marketing to a younger demographic" is in BMW's cards.

It's a "luxury" product, not to be diluted/degraded by cheapo models.

It could happen to an extent, but it will be branded "eco-friendly" and not cheap.

Young people need something to strive for and look up to, and luxury goods will remain.

In this connected age, what is the draw for paying money to a club? Of any type?

You go online, you find people of similar interests. You subscribe to feeds specific to your likes. The glory day's for magazines are in the past. You want news & pics you go online. Want to sell or buy? Online. Free, all free. All very specific.

The aging and dwindling membership of this club, is not about motorcycle ownership, it is about the shift in how and where people find entertainment.

Who is left to pay dues and subscriptions? The people who always have, and have no intention of changing with the times. They will be the ones shutting the lights off.

SheRidesABeemer said:

In this connected age, what is the draw for paying money to a club? Of any type?

You go online, you find people of similar interests. You subscribe to feeds specific to your likes. The glory day's for magazines are in the past. You want news & pics you go online. Want to sell or buy? Online. Free, all free. All very specific.

The aging and dwindling membership of this club, is not about motorcycle ownership, it is about the shift in how and where people find entertainment.

Who is left to pay dues and subscriptions? The people who always have, and have no intention of changing with the times. They will be the ones shutting the lights off.

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I agree mostly. I found this site as I was considering purchasing my 05 RT. Compared to the HD site I was frequenting then (which was free), I found the general intellect and wit of posters here refreshing, and their views largely like mine. I found topics and opinions which helped me make my decision, and joined sort of out of obligation (which I felt, not which anyone imparted to me). I have continued to enjoy the interactions, even though I no longer ride this marque. The forum, however, is the only part of the club I use. So, Gail may be on to the key.......and the future of this (and other) clubs might be like the setting sun.

I, like Ikchris, also doubt seriously that BMW will produce a less expensive product. That's not what they do.

SheRidesABeemer said:

In this connected age, what is the draw for paying money to a club? Of any type?

You go online, you find people of similar interests. You subscribe to feeds specific to your likes. The glory day's for magazines are in the past. You want news & pics you go online. Want to sell or buy? Online. Free, all free. All very specific.

The aging and dwindling membership of this club, is not about motorcycle ownership, it is about the shift in how and where people find entertainment.

Who is left to pay dues and subscriptions? The people who always have, and have no intention of changing with the times. They will be the ones shutting the lights off.

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Well now, not quite sure if the days of magazines are over quite yet, the method of delivery certainly is changing, I read many of my mags of interest on-line when I can but the fact remains that for "quality" content you still have to pay since those providing the content have costs for providing it, be it on-line or paper. While many sites offer “teasers” once you want the whole article or full access you have to pay. I'd also disagree that those who continue to join clubs that require payments of some form can be flatly pigeonholed as "having no intention of changing with the times" any one of those of us who use this forum have obviously done so (change with the times).
And while its true that on-line clubs are the new age, it is also true that those connections often lead to face to face meeting, its just that initial contacts are made differently which is where paying clubs played a much larger role before. While my kids certainly spend/spent a lot more time on-line much of that did lead to face to face connections at some point. In fact from what they tell me, as they now are maturing into full adulthood, they spend much more time interacting face to face than they did as teenagers, they have begun to find that the companionship of live interactions is more satisfying. Even non-paid memberships in clubs often lead to face to face contacts, ADV is a perfect example, look at how many of its members have met?
So while much of the net offers free interaction/information, as those who provide it discover that people will pay for the service those once free sites are going commercial. I can think of any number of sites that started free but now cost. The net is not nearly as free as it once was, I know because I’ve been using it pretty much since its inception back in Arpa-net days and now pay for much of what I once found for free. And I do this because the quality of the material is such that it is worth it.
Certainly times are changing, but in the end people are still “social” animals and still require the “human touch” and that won’t change for the foreseeable future, the amount of "face time" may (just as it did when the telephone was introduced), but again as people mature it seems that human factor still comes into play..

RM

Hey! who turned off the lights????

lkchris said:

"Lower cost of ownership" means chain/belt drive, doesn't it?

Engines not made in Germany.

Other than that, I don't think "marketing to a younger demographic" is in BMW's cards.

It's a "luxury" product, not to be diluted/degraded by cheapo models.

It could happen to an extent, but it will be branded "eco-friendly" and not cheap.

Young people need something to strive for and look up to, and luxury goods will remain.

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Actually, the 'belt-drive' would be an upgrade, but I digress.

I agree - BMW a luxury product, and therefore a narrow market.

I am 37 and have been a member since I was 6 years old. I know that sounds funny, but I used to go to rallies with my dad climb on the back the bike every chance I got. I would grab my dad's copy of BMWON before he had a chance to read it and cut out all the pictures and put them on my wall...hens the reason I got my own membership. When I turned 18, my dad sold me his R90/6 with 240,000 and he changed to riding sidecars until his shoulders couldn't handle it any more. I put another 100,000 miles on that bike. Now, I have my own son, who is 8, and he loves to do the same thing. I had to let him down by telling him the ride to the national rally was too far for him at his age.

I guess you could call me a young older member. =-)

I always make a the observation that the kids who buy the crotch rockets aren't experienced enough to handle them. The more mature people who can really put one of those bikes through it paces, tend not to buy them. They place more value on comfort, practical use, and probably their life as well.

As for affording a BMW, its true, the newer, more reasonably priced models are attracting the younger crowd. If I wasn't built like a giant, I might have gotten an 800 instead of a 1200. It used to be cost prohibitive for a person starting out to afford one. I would be interested to see the numbers over the last 30 years and see what has happened as far as age of BMW riders.

SheRidesABeemer said:

In this connected age, what is the draw for paying money to a club? Of any type?

You go online, you find people of similar interests. You subscribe to feeds specific to your likes. The glory day's for magazines are in the past. You want news & pics you go online. Want to sell or buy? Online. Free, all free. All very specific.

The aging and dwindling membership of this club, is not about motorcycle ownership, it is about the shift in how and where people find entertainment.

Who is left to pay dues and subscriptions? The people who always have, and have no intention of changing with the times. They will be the ones shutting the lights off.

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hlothery said:

So, Gail may be on to the key.......and the future of this (and other) clubs might be like the setting sun.

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I wouldnÔÇÖt say that magazines and clubs like this are necessarily doomed. The days of print magazines, IMO, are numbered. Eventually, magazines will be electronic only. I think thatÔÇÖs a good thing. Think of all the trees weÔÇÖll be saving. Now clubs like this will have to change, as they always have, or will fade with sunset. The key here is how to change.

ThereÔÇÖs an article on page 18 of the July ON, which summarizes the most recent survey the BMW MOA has conducted. I commend the BOD for doing the survey, so they know whatÔÇÖs necessary for the club.

88bmwJeff said:

The days of print magazines, IMO, are numbered. Eventually, magazines will be electronic only. I think that’s a good thing.

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The Internet has certainly changed the landscape, and caused a huge upheaval in the world of print. I, myself, am a refugee of the newspaper and magazine business who has moved on to designing and building Web sites for a good chunk of my income. My wife is a longtime newspaper journalist who is going back to school for her master's degree in an entirely different field.

That said, neither print magazines nor newspapers are dead. There's been a great winnowing because of greatly decreasing ad revenue, shifting demographics and changing consumer habits, but they won't go away. Photography didn't kill painting, motion pictures didn't kill theater, television didn't kill motion pictures or radio, and the Internet won't kill print. A tangible piece of paper with all its tactile sensations can't be duplicated (yet) by a laptop, a Kindle or an iPad. They're each good at their own thing and there's a lot of overlap, but when the dust settles print will still be there — different and less ubiquitous than before, but still very much alive and kicking.

rocketman said:

...
Certainly times are changing, but in the end people are still ÔÇ£socialÔÇØ animals and still require the ÔÇ£human touchÔÇØ and that wonÔÇÖt change for the foreseeable future, the amount of "face time" may (just as it did when the telephone was introduced), but again as people mature it seems that human factor still comes into play..

RM

Hey! who turned off the lights????

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Yep, I think the youngsters eventually figure out its hard to make out over a laptop internet connection however fast the connection is

I just don't see how a company as small as BMW can both keep its current demographic and gain 20 year olds. About the only motorcycle company that can simultaneously appeal to young and old is Honda, and that is because they are so large. I think the F series shows that BMW recognizes that its best strategy is to position itself as a step up for riders in their mid to late 30s rather than trying to capture 22 year olds.

rockbottom said:

I think the F series shows that BMW recognizes that its best strategy is to position itself as a step up for riders in their mid to late 30s rather than trying to capture 22 year olds.

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Yes, I agree. One of BMW's most valuable assets is the upscale brand that they've built over the past few decades. Some here will disagree, but honestly, aesthetics and coolness were neglected in both their car and motorcycle brands until the past few years, but it's changed. And the new BMW attention to looks and design seems aimed squarely at young professionals with growing disposable incomes. If BMW started marketing 600-750cc, sub $9,000 crotch rockets, for example, it would severely compromise the upscale, slightly exclusive image that they've carefully cultivated.

http://www.motosavvy.com/fusebox/dsp_1col.cfm?page_id=329

motosavvy said:

Hence the 2008 GSX1300R, a restyled, re-engineered, reinvented Hayabusa to do exactly what the first one was meant to do; dominate. That, after all, is what attracted the HayabusaÔÇÖs astoundingly varied customer base. While the big bikeÔÇÖs ownership profile consists of 37-percent self-described minorities, almost enough to typecast the model, the rest of the demographics are equally interesting. .

With its obvious high-performance credentials, it is not unexpected that 20-percent of its owners are in the 18 to 29 year-old group. But the fact that another 20-percent are between 45 and 59 years old is a bit of a shock. Clearly, thereÔÇÖs an eclectic crowd of Hayabusa devotees out there, making the direction for a second-generation model pretty hard to define.

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I can't attest to the accuracy of the quoted paragraphs. I'm also not questioning that BMWs have historically been aspirational for consumers, but price and performance suggest that the RR is a realistic opportunity for BMW to break ground in new markets. [...must not mention lack of dealerships... must not mention...]

Implications for MOA: What sort of social activities do these high powered sport bike riders want? There are some threads in the archives where posters cited the Bowling Alone in America book, so we're partially covering well trod ground. The point being, like some of the posters in this thread have made, that there's less tendency for youngsters to be joiners.

BMW has the potential to make sales in new markets. What might MOA do for these same markets?

Noel

rockbottom said:

I just don't see how a company as small as BMW can both keep its current demographic and gain 20 year olds. About the only motorcycle company that can simultaneously appeal to young and old is Honda, and that is because they are so large. I think the F series shows that BMW recognizes that its best strategy is to position itself as a step up for riders in their mid to late 30s rather than trying to capture 22 year olds.

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The last three folks I know that have bought F650/800's are 55, 60ish and 74...young at heart all of them!

I had give up riding in 1982 due to broken motorcycle. A Honda 360CL. The part to fix it was $140.00 the bike was worth $250.00 Kid on the way, mortage and if any one remembers the job situation back then, not so good.

2 years before in 1980 or so, I saw my first BMW. A R90S smoked silver & purple. Spoke to the owner and asked him what they cost well it was about a grand more than Kawasaki 1000. He might as well said 10 million dollars since I was making about $5.75per hour at the time. Note to self at the time, some day I will get one.

well 17 years later at age 38 things become possible. I had BMW moto mentor for consultation and I bought a 82 R100RT Current ride is a 09 R1200RT

All this only happened because I worked my ass off for close to 20 years to make it possible.

I think any company does the right thing by making a better than the other guy product. Most people generally by by price, hence the number of walmarts around the country. There will only ever be a certain percentage of the riding public that will gravitate to the BMW brand. Those that want a bit more than the other guys offer.

And really BMW has been recesion proof for well over 40 plus years. HD almost killed itself by the late 70's and in the early 80's over production by the Japanese almost killed themselves as well. The economy did not help either back then.

So who is the smarter company?
Who has the more sophisticated bike?
What is each companies definition of success?

I personally think BMW know exactly what it is doing and will do well doing it, on their terms. And you will like it!

When it comes to the clubs MOA, RA, Airheads, who knows the younger generation of BMW owners will lead in ways that they see fit. More internet, less magazine who knows? Heck, my adult sons take their laptops every where!

I am 49 years old and am computer savy, about half of my friends are as well, the others can surf the internet and thats it.

And if you think about it do you really want as many BMW's floating around like V-Twins do all weekend long? Just a thought.

lkchris said:

"Lower cost of ownership" means chain/belt drive, doesn't it?

Engines not made in Germany.

Other than that, I don't think "marketing to a younger demographic" is in BMW's cards.

It's a "luxury" product, not to be diluted/degraded by cheapo models.

It could happen to an extent, but it will be branded "eco-friendly" and not cheap.

Young people need something to strive for and look up to, and luxury goods will remain.

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Agreed.