Sidecars

pmdave said:

And, once a novice survives the first few thousand miles, it's time to focus on hanging off toward the curves. Hey! It's all in the Yellow Book.

pmdave

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I know! And every time I go buy one from You I just miss out.
I didn't know Coffee w/ Dave was two days.
I missed both!
Argh!
I even had cash unlike the RideWest opportunity back in January.
Heck, after seeing Voni's pics I'm heading over to the Peninsula to get one.
Autographed too!

sarelp said:

Does anybody have any good pictures or ideas for a side car on a R1200c. I have one that I don't ride very often and I'm thinking of getting a side car for it but I dont see anything that I really like. I would like to see some pictures if you guys can help me out.

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How'd I miss this?

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_popper/3915716334/" title="Cari. by GrafikFeat, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2652/3915716334_3b69e1556c_b.jpg" width="1024" height="653" alt="Cari." /></a>

Do it.
You'll never look back, except to admire your rig.

Grafikfeat,

How about some additional comments on your outfit. Is this a Ural, or the fiberglass version produced by DMC (Dauntless)?

It appears you have the sidecar axle modified to accept a spare front wheel. Are you running a hydraulic caliper on the sidecar wheel? What's the hookup?

Did you change final drive ratio?

Is the front end modified?

etc.

pmdave

Is this a Ural, or the fiberglass version produced by DMC (Dauntless)?
A 2002 Ural all steel tub.

It appears you have the sidecar axle modified to accept a spare front wheel. Are you running a hydraulic caliper on the sidecar wheel?
Yes. It's also been moved forward about 1 1/2"...
What's the hookup?
I have two foot brakes side by side on one brake peddle.
If the s/c is disconnected the brake system stays w/ the hack. It has two discs as it is also used a "rolling spare" swapping it out w/ the front.

Did you change final drive ratio?
No. No need w/ a Final Drive Ratio of 2.54:1

Is the front end modified?
Yes.

A Steering/trail mod...

The Plunge

Excellent thread, and thanks to all the wise ones here.

As to the COST of a "new" rig. . .

Over the last 6 months or so of my restoration of a '80 Naked Wing (GL1100) w/ Watsonian Monaco - I've seen several "project" rigs for sale, and some of them are ridiculously LOW in price, IMHO. Sadly, I don't have specific current examples, but for those willing to do some serious wrenching (after making a wrenching decision), there are real bargains out there, because a lot of people have NO idea what these things can be worth. I remember seeing an old GL1100 that had been sitting for a couple of years under a cover. . .EML leading link front forks, a fiberglass chair in need of paint, plus a heavy-duty 4-wheel trailer for $3500(!) Now, you're gonna have to spend some time and money on bringing something like this back to life, but. . .you'll learn a LOT in the process, and the finished product will, I promise you, be worth it. This is the "good news" paragraph. Obviously check craigslist, eBay, etc. for these bargains, and be willing to travel.

The "bad news" paragraph, for some of you, will be that many of the aforesaid rigs are NOT attached to BMW's . . . but sometimes the prices are low enough that you can use the chair, maybe adapt the mounts (?), sell the Brand "X" bike, attach the Teutonic marvel with big jugs, and get into three-wheeling at a somewhat reasonable price.

The only other item I'd add is that there are a lot of beautiful old rigs out there - a lot of them powered by classic or even vintage BMW's. Pure eye-candy, and I regularly view sidecar porn on-line just for the sheer enjoyment, and -yes- unconditional LOVE for these things. But - another potential "bad news" paragraph: Be advised that some of these rigs are very "underpowered" IF you intend to ride in the insane traffic conditions of a metro area, take road trips, and do much of anything beyond riding along backroads at a leisurely pace. Nothing "wrong" with putt-putting along, but this type of riding is ALL you'll be able to do, and best to quickly get comfortable with having Bubba and his giant 4WD Dodge Diesel looming in your rear-view. That third-wheel is a drag, and most chairs weigh a couple of hundred #, even without ballast (that term to include dogs and people).

Not to beat a dead horse about this, but one reason a lot of us ride is for the thrill of it, and that (sometimes) includes SPEED. "Legal" speeds are waaaaaay fun in a rig, especially when the road bends (one reason we ride 3W), but crappy performance is crappy performance, and my point (if any) is that you may soon tire of your "underpowered" outfit as your skills develop, which they will if you keep riding. . .and you're going to crave that surge of power as you twist the grip.

Regards,

Walking Eagle

'94 R1100RS - MoonBeamer
'80 Honda GL1100 Naked Wing w/ Watsonain Monaco - Old Son

mrharve@tularosa.net said:

Not to beat a dead horse about this, but one reason a lot of us ride is for the thrill of it, and that (sometimes) includes SPEED. "Legal" speeds are waaaaaay fun in a rig, especially when the road bends (one reason we ride 3W), but crappy performance is crappy performance, and my point (if any) is that you may soon tire of your "underpowered" outfit as your skills develop, which they will if you keep riding. . .and you're going to crave that surge of power as you twist the grip.

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I save the speed for the two wheeler.

As for underpowered... That's what they say about the R1200C.
Yet I have the ability to commute w/ a sidecar in excess of 75 mph.

As for older rigs being called underpowered. No. They aren't.
You can't go back in time and base these on over powered motorcycles of today.

The best things about those old hacks is where they take you...
And that is best place... They take you 'back'.

This is starting to sound like the loud pipes debate...

Some of us like to putt. Some of us like to scoot far away, then slow down to putt.

It's all good.

glenfiddich said:

This is starting to sound like the loud pipes debate...

Some of us like to putt. Some of us like to scoot far away, then slow down to putt.

It's all good.

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Nah.

We all ride.

Just differently.

Far cry from the loud pipe debacle.

1200RT rig.

Knowing very little about side cars but definatelhy interested in them do any of you know , and I'm sure you do, can you hook a side car up to a 1200 RT with all the fairing etc?? I also think that Graficfeat's rig is the nicest I've seen pics of.
Thanks,
Mo

Thanks!

Take a look at this [Google Search].

GrafikFeat said:

Thanks!

Take a look at this [Google Search].

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Thanks Grafikfeat, I appreciate the response. Mo

I was surprised at the search result.

Keep us posted...

Clever sidecarists are always hooking up chairs to various motorcycles, sometimes with good results, sometimes laughable. We just don't care that a manufacturer says don't attach a sidecar or pull a trailer.

BMW's prior to 1970 often had provisions to attach a sidecar, but after 1970 BMW followed the lead of the Japanese in proscribing sidecars and certainly not making any provisions to easily attach one. That didn't stop hackers from attaching sidecars to the various /7 models, although it required some clever reinforcing.

With the advent of the oilheads, BMW eliminated the wrap-around frame, which effectively eliminated any easy points to support sidecar attachments. So, with just about all of the current BMW models, it's necessary to install some sort of subframe to provide sidecar attachment points. And if it's not obvious, a plastic-coated bike makes it even more difficult to get the struts attached.

I'm thinking seriously of building another rig--to replace the venerable old R100/Ural. I'm considering the R1200R as the power plant, because it's not plastic coated, and can be ordered with either cast or cross-spoked wheels. Building a subframe is tricky, but do-able. I believe the R has the same engine as the GS, which would allow for GS bash plates. I would very likely yank the Ural car off the R100 and use it for the R1200R, with a repaint to match.

The oilhead C models make good hack-haulers because the final drive is simpler, and the front end can be modified economically to reduce trail. However, the C has less HP than the R, especially the 1200R. There's no replacement for displacement.

pmdave

pmdave said:

The oilhead C models make good hack-haulers because the final drive is simpler, and the front end can be modified economically to reduce trail. However, the C has less HP than the R, especially the 1200R. There's no replacement for displacement.

pmdave

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Not simplified. Taller.

R1200C - Final Drive Ratio 2.54:1
R1200CL - Final Drive Ratio 2.62:1

As a replacement for displacement? I was up above 90 mph on my hack on the I-90 floating bridge. The underpowered "C" is a myth.
Besides... How fast do you really need to go?
It's all about the torque Baby! For that there is NO replacement.

By "simpler" I mean fewer moving parts in the driveline.

pmdave

pmdave said:

By "simpler" I mean fewer moving parts in the driveline.

pmdave

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Ah!
Less to replace when they fail. Like mine did and noted on the Final Drive Failure Registry.

Editors Note: The "C" final drive is not vented. DO NOT overfill.

My R100 produces a maximum of 65 hp, but I suspect no more than 50 lb ft of torque.

There is no problem maintaining speed on the level in calm air. The problem with insufficient HP/torque is trying to pull an uphill grade into a headwind while trucks are breathing down my six. Yes, I can shift down a cog or two and get the tach needle up closer to the red band, but that develops more heat, and heat tends to cause valve problems.

Having said that, let's note that swapping heads on an airhead isn't a big deal--maybe an hour per side, including time to clean up the goop and SBAA.* I used to have two sets of rebuilt heads on hand--until I built a more powerful rig and kept the airhead outfit as the dual sport.

But I've never had a driveshaft or final drive problem, while the odometer has made two or three round trips.

*stand back and admire

pmdave

sarelp said:

Does anybody have any good pictures or ideas for a side car on a R1200c. I have one that I don't ride very often and I'm thinking of getting a side car for it but I dont see anything that I really like. I would like to see some pictures if you guys can help me out.

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Did you ever come up w/ something?

Lotsa C/Hacks pics here now...

~ Jim

Hannigan sidecars at Daytona Bike Week told me they could fit a sidecar to my CLC. The Hannigan side cars are not cheap but appear to be a quality product with many designs and options. I saw a C last year with a Dauntless sidecar but was not able to check it out up close. Good luck on your search.