Noob questions R60/5

As you may have read I have an airhead...finally, a 72 R60/5 with 55,000 miles.



I am trying to get it running and have some very "NOOBIE" questions. Please bear with my ignorance....I am sure this is the first in a series of many questions.

I got it semi running tonight. It will only run for 20-40 secods then starts popping and an occasional backfire through carbs or exhaust then dies out. It will start back up after a slight increase in throttle. I can hold it at around 2000 rpm then it pops a bunch or backfires then dies. While it is running it does not misfire so I think timing is ok.

Can I remove intake tubes and spray carb cleaner in the carbs, or it that bad? I did remove the air cleaner because it is really dirty, and that seemed to help get it running. It does seem to run a bit longer each time I restart it so that leads me to believe it is carburation. Any idea what carbs I have? There are no plates with Bing numbers, no choke/enrichers and only one cable comming out of the top. They have primers though. Bing's website drawing shows a similar one with two cables comming out of the top type 53, I believe. Is a carb rebuild in my future? Is it difficult? Does their DVD show everything that I (someont that has never been inside a carb) would need to be successful at a rebuild? I am somewhat mechanical.

I have new plug wires and filters comming from Bob's. The plugs are new and the PO said gas is fresh.

The PO said he put it away with the tank and carbs drained...he also said it was "Mint" so take that for what it is worth. (The bike is VERY NICE, just not "mint")

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

The good thing is that your carbs are the simple slide type. I have the same carbs on my R60/6. VERY easy to rebuild and very rewarding. If I were you, I would just order the kit and have at 'em. You'll be surprised just how simple they are. No DVD needed. A simple exploded view will do. If you're careful and do one at a time, you won't even need that (you'll have the other one for reference).

There are several ways to balance them and good articles explaining the different techniques. I use the shorting method and my ears. Works like a charm and takes 5 mins. Good luck and congrats on your purchase. That is a sweet looking bike!

Carbs

You will get responses much more helpful than mine, but I have an R60/6. Your carbs look to be the Type 53 like the ones on my /6 although I don't have primer/tickler's and I do have the choke.

I checked into the DVD at Bing and they don't have one for these carbs since they don't get as many inqueries as the CV carbs on the 750 & 900's. I'm not sure if it would help to view the DVD of the CV carb just to familiarize yourself with the basics or not...might just add confusion.

I watched a guy strip a similar carb (Amal) for a Triumph on Youtube and it helped me understand a bit more of what is involved in the process. Search Lunmad on Youtube if you're interested...just dint let it confuse you. Get the manual from Bing. Do you have a Clymer and BMW shop manual?

noob

Man, that bike is gorgeous.
Sounds like you have a carb problem. The carbs are dirt simple. The One cable setup is the right configuration with the primer pin. The primer just pushes the float down to "flood" the carb to enrich the mixture for cold starting. I'd take off the float bowls to see if there is any crud or varnish. The Bing manual exploded diagaram is great for this carb, a lot better than Clymer and Haynes. Instead of spraying carb cleaner down the throat, I'd unscrew the tops and pull the carb body away, leaving the slide and needle intact on the cable, take out the jets and clean the whole mess with cleaner, including the hanging slide and needle and blow out the channels with air and/or aerosol carb cleaner and put the whole thing back together. The main jet assembly has a tiny little fiber disc which is on a spring assembly in the top of the main jet assembly and acts as an accelerator pump. If it moves freely, dont mess with it and don't throw it away because it looks like a little piece of crud. (Dont ask me how I know). Anyway, make sure on re-assembly the cable is correctly seated in the slide and the needle goes down into the jet easily.

Apart from the missing reference to the fiber disc, the Haynes manual has a good set of tear down, clean and re-assembly instructions.

What I've learned is that while these bikes are a staple of pride and satisfaction of ownership, they are not too holy to be torn apart in an evening.

What the PO says is hearsay. What it is and what he sees are two different things.

It sounds like you need a carb rebuild, for sure. Starting fluid in the spark plug holes will only make it run for so long.

Just to echo, it's likely the carbs. But you might want to consider a longer tickle on the carbs or doing it a little more to each carb once the bike is started. My R69S also has ticklers...she's pretty cold blooded and I have to hold the tickler button down for a count of 5 to have any hope of getting it started. Once she catches, I typically have to momentarily push each tickler again at least once, maybe twice, while keeping the throttle working so the engine continues to run. It takes a good minute of running before I can consider pulling away.

20774 said:

...My R69S also has ticklers...Once she catches, I typically have to momentarily push each tickler again at least once, maybe twice, while keeping the throttle working so the engine continues to run. It takes a good minute of running before I can consider pulling away.

Click to expand...

sounds like my spring starting procedure for my lawn-boy!

b-man,

I'd start out with a good general tune-up where you confirm the following:
1) valve rocker clearances are correct.
2) point gap is correct.
3) static timing is correct.

Now then, your Type 53's have no fuel enrichment mechanism other than the ticklers. What happens is that when you depress them, it sinks the float and the chamber fills with gasoline. This eventually allows fuel to bubble up into the throat of the carburetor and the intake port. That is the enrichment for cold starting. If the motor runs for 20 or 40 seconds and then stumbles, that is the flooded condition being burnt off without the rest of the carburetors fuel circuits taking up the task of delivering the air/fuel mixture to the motor.

If it were my bike, I'd take the carburetors apart and thouroughly blow out all the passages inside with spray Gumout. Also, those carburetors have an accelerator pump mechanism incorporated into the main jet stack. There are lots of tiny holes and passages to get gummed up.

Study this first: http://bingcarburetor.com/bmw/53kits_files/Type%2053.pdf

When you open the carb up and go to remove the main jet stack (them brass things screwed in from the bottom of the carb) remove the jet stock first THEN remove the main jet from the jet stock. On the BING 53s the jet stock is pretty thin walled and the main jet provides structural support to those thin walls. Be sure the whole shebang will gently unscrew and out onto your egg crate foam before opening it up. As mentioned, inside is probably the tiny acclerator thing which has parts that want to jump off the bench then roll under the tractor into a sawdust pile.

When you open carbs always work over something that will keep the tiny parts from bouncing away from you. Use an actual empty egg crate or that egg crate foam that they use on mattresses. Parts will drop but they will not go far when they hit the foam. Saves tonnes of trouble for you.

Just a general suggestion, remember that on your machine many of the screws and bolts are steel and thread into aluminum. Always be very careful when starting these and tightening them up. Stripped threads are a common problem don't overdo the torque.

The centrifugal spark advance bolts to the nose of your cam, DO NOT overtourque the bolt that holds it in place. Extreme grief will be yours if you break off the nose of the camshaft.

This is all great advice, thank you and please KEEP IT UP. I am ordering rebuild kits tomorrow from Bing. Tonight after 20 minutes of messing with it, I was able to get it running long enough to ride it around my yard a couple of times before it popped a bunch and backfired then died out.

Each time I mess with it, it runs a bit longer with less back firing and popping through the carbs, although it is far from running good. Could I be running the cobwebs out of it? Also I added some confirmed "fresh" gasoline and a bit of Heet to absorb any possible moisture in the PO's gas.

I am glad there is no rush getting it on the road...although it will be nice.

There is no easy answer. The instructions I have given you are the base-line to solve your airheads problems. Bottom line is this, you are going to have to choose one or two advisors to work with, and then you will have to get some one who knows what is going on with your specific bike to spend some time with it/you to teach you. The 600's are a whole different world apart from 750's and larger motors.

I will take your advice on the baseline tune up and accept your mentoring offer as well. There is one very knowledgable airhead kind of locally, (60 miles away) who has offered to help, but I have to get the bike running enough to get it over to his house first. Thanks.

Another Noob Here with a Question

I'm another noob with a '73 R 60/5 and have a question. My final drive housing keeps getting covered with oil. I wipe it down, go for a short ride, and it's covered again. And, the side wall of the tire gets covered as well. I can't see where it's leaking from as there's oil all over. I don't want to ride it anymore until I figure out what's going on as I don't want to cause a major problem. Could this be a final drive seal? Final drive bearing? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

It is most likely the big seal under the cardan cover inside of your final drive is gone bad. The cardan cover is the part you see when you pull the rear wheel. If your bike has been run dry, there is a chance that the big bearing has failed and that will not allow the seal to hold itself to where it needs to be. ( think slop or wobble) However, this is the least likely source of your leak. The bearing is very rubust. For what it is worth, my blue /5 is in need of the same repair. Wife and I went riding today and when we got home, I noticed the final drive coated in grunge. Did this repair last year on my other (white) /5. It's a pretty straight forward task.

tpr3cats3 said:

I'm another noob with a '73 R 60/5 and have a question. My final drive housing keeps getting covered with oil.

Click to expand...

It's important to locate the source of the leak. Wipe it down, cover the area with talcum powder and go for another ride. Maybe you need to stop every 3-5 miles for a chance to notice the first spots of the oil. IIRC, there's a breather housing up top, there's the fill plug, there's the small drain hole immediately below the axle nut. Plus, it's possible that the brake shaft that goes through the housing could be leaking either inside or outside. Beyond that, there's a seal between the shaft and housing so the leak could be coming from the shaft and drifting to the rear.

If the leak is coming through the small hole below the axle nut, then the internal seal is leaking and you'll see a mess when you take the wheel off.

Kurt:

It looked like the leak was coming from the breather housing at the top. Does that breather housing come out? It doesn't look like it screws out. Is it a plug? Here's the problem. When we were investigating the source of the leak, we broke off the top of that breather housing. It snapped off very easily. Can that part be replaced? Thanks.

I believe that breather is press fit into the top of the housing. Probably some heat around the base of the housing would allow it to be pulled out. If you're getting oil coming out of there, then one of several things might be happening - the final drive was filled too full, gear oil is transferring from the driveshaft into the final drive, or the wrong fluid is being used and it's foaming up. Generally speaking, on the /5 through /7s that breather housing is never touched. The fill plug is all that you need to fool with.

Kurt:

Yea, touching that plug was not good. Chaulk that up to live and learn, for sure.

I need to clean it up good, then take it out again for a ride and try to find the source of the leak. I've put on 500 miles or so since the fluids were last changed and the leak just started 30 miles or so ago as far as I can tell. If it was overfilled when last changed, would it have started leaking prior to now? Thanks.

There are several reasons for a rear drive to over fill: too much oil in the driveshaft/swing arm, water at the bottom due to over-zealous washing/riding through deep water, a leaking seal between swing arm and rear drive, or pressurization in the swing arm. The early (pre '73) swing arm is not vented to the gearbox.