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Anonymous book online??

Here is the question that we should constantly be asking ourselves:

If we were to start BMW MOA today, what would it look like?

Specifically in regards to the Anonymous Book.

Ya want younger riders to be around in 20 years so we continue as an organization?

The answer is obvious. They, and some of us old pharts, don't want to carry a paperback book when we could have an e copy available 24/7 on a device that we will have with us at all times.

Of course, I'm preaching to the choir and look forward to the many announcements that Greg alluded to in the post above.
 
Sorry for the long, dry post, but yeah, an online/mobile version of the Anonymous Book would be fantastic (as would the magazine), but it would involve thinking through all the stuff (and more) that I just mentioned. And given that this is apparently, as Mika said, a five-year-old conversation, it's apparently a paradigm shift that isn't easily digested by MOA for any number of very legitimate reasons. I mean, MOA is at its core a motorcycle club, not a publishing company.

I don't see magazines being sent to me via the mail to be long term. Eventually, that type of print will go all electronic, and the BMW ON magazine will follow suit. Granted ON is now available online, but I don't know the ease of viewing on a tablet (such as the Ipad). So, moving the Anonymous Book to an electronic format is a when not an if. But as been mentioned, it will take some input from those who use it to shape it into its next incarnation. Since it's quite obvious that there are insufficient volunteers, the association will most likely have to pay to get it done. Although I do not use the A.B., I am in favor of making it more user friendly.
 
I don't see magazines being sent to me via the mail to be long term. Eventually, that type of print will go all electronic, and the BMW ON magazine will follow suit. Granted ON is now available online, but I don't know the ease of viewing on a tablet (such as the Ipad). So, moving the Anonymous Book to an electronic format is a when not an if. But as been mentioned, it will take some input from those who use it to shape it into its next incarnation. Since it's quite obvious that there are insufficient volunteers, the association will most likely have to pay to get it done. Although I do not use the A.B., I am in favor of making it more user friendly.

There is a saying that TV didn't kill radio. But, it sure changed it. Everyone in publishing and communications is aware that the delivery and format of publications and information is change right before our eyes. We (the MOA) are keenly aware of these changes and tracking them and will position ourselves appropriately. If that sounds vague - it is - but that's about the only way to describe the current status. :nod
 
There is a saying that TV didn't kill radio. But, it sure changed it. Everyone in publishing and communications is aware that the delivery and format of publications and information is change right before our eyes. We (the MOA) are keenly aware of these changes and tracking them and will position ourselves appropriately. If that sounds vague - it is - but that's about the only way to describe the current status. :nod


Greg, my comments were not ment to be seen as critique of the boards decisions, and I hope they weren't viewed as such. While I believe changing to an electronic form only is a matter of time, it does not necessarily indicate that time is now. That's up to the board to make that decision. And, I have complete confidence that the board will make whatever changes it deems to be necessary.
 
Greg, my comments were not ment to be seen as critique of the boards decisions, and I hope they weren't viewed as such. While I believe changing to an electronic form only is a matter of time, it does not necessarily indicate that time is now. That's up to the board to make that decision. And, I have complete confidence that the board will make whatever changes it deems to be necessary.

Jeff, I didn't take your comments as negative in any way. It's only logical people will speculate about changes to our media given all the changes happening. We (the Media Department really) have things in the works, but it's premature to discuss details or timing. And, it can sound like a dismissal to say something like "we're working on it", but we are. :)
 
Good stuff folks.

A few comments.

I've used the anon book a few times.

The first time was outside of Houston during the Butt Lite II when I got a flat. Paul and his dog Oreo were my saviors.

The second time was in prep for a run to Daytona for bike week. I was looking for a place to stash a couple of pickup trucks and a trailer in Virginia so we could be get safely in and out New England in March. Worked like a champ, a bottle of rum got us a safe spot to leave vehicles for a week.

The third time was on the 07 IBR when I blew up my FD outside Edmonton. Once again the Anon book saved the day.

The fourth time was with the motor the hack blew in up in Oregon when taking my son cross country to college. That one was huge.

Since we're on the topic there is a lot more in the book than just anon member listings and much of this other information can be a game changer when you're broken down.

For example there is a list of Ambassadors by state in the book. When I was in Oregon at my wits end I figured out how valuable a resource an MOA Ambassador can be. After a few misses I looked up the closest Ambassador and gave him a call, figuring a MOA Ambassador would be plugged into the local scene. I sure wish I could remember his name (he's no longer listed) because he was huge in saving my trip. He got the local dealer to open up off hours to store my rig and drove us to he airport so I could rent a car.

Mr. Ambassador my son and I still talk about how the Anon book saved our bacon, thank you very much :bow
642495188_iR2hi-L.jpg


I've also been on the receiving end of a few calls although all but one were referrals, i.e. the member called someone else in the area and they called me or had the caller call me.

As an Ambassador and occasional recruiter I find the Anon book to be a valuable recruiting tool. In a face to face meeting this is more effective then showing off the Owners News as the Anon book really drives home the feeling of community.

Regarding electronic publishing I'm in the couldn't care less department. I consider the Anon book to part of my emergency gear. As such I would never consider an on-line version, iphone app and all that as a suitable replacement. There are places you still can't get a cell signal let alone data services with the throughput to effectively use the web.

The idea of the app dropping pins on a map showing participating members locations would still be pretty coarse as the db doesn't (and should never) include physical addresses. FWIW, my number in the Anon book is billed to my office so I feel pretty good that there's no way anyone could get my home address from the book.

I also fall into the camp that if it isn't secure or it's on a .PDF that I would opt out. Call me a cranky old phart but if you're on a tour and you can't look at a book with town names and figure out what towns are close without an electronic device perhaps you're not really ready to be out on tour. Again, you can't count on your smart phone connecting to everything, everywhere so why make a piece of emergency gear something that may or may not work? Do you want to use your primary communication device's battery up surfing a db for numbers or do you just want to dial from a sheet of paper? Personally if I had good access I'd use what battery power I have to put a help me post on a few forums and for making and receiving calls, not surfing a db to figure out who to call.

The question I'd ask the board is what is the true purpose of the Anon book. I believe the primary purpose is to provide a (emergency) resource for travelers, followed by social networking. The social networking is now all on-line but I do see some value of having a list of folks offering KK on-line, that would be good for trip planning for the folks who don't like to broadcast on the forum. As an aside I update my Anon info on-line so the data is already there.

I have no problem with an electronic version as we already have the data in correct format however I don't support spending any money on outside contractors, etc. I understand we have a real IT wiz in STL. If he can do it great otherwise the money should stay in the bank.

Putting it all on line would not improve the chances of a member getting assistance far from home.
 
Regarding electronic publishing I'm in the couldn't care less department. I consider the Anon book to part of my emergency gear. As such I would never consider an on-line version, iphone app and all that as a suitable replacement. There are places you still can't get a cell signal let alone data services with the throughput to effectively use the web.

[SNIP]

I also fall into the camp that if it isn't secure or it's on a .PDF that I would opt out. Call me a cranky old phart but if you're on a tour and you can't look at a book with town names and figure out what towns are close without an electronic device perhaps you're not really ready to be out on tour. Again, you can't count on your smart phone connecting to everything, everywhere so why make a piece of emergency gear something that may or may not work? Do you want to use your primary communication device's battery up surfing a db for numbers or do you just want to dial from a sheet of paper? Personally if I had good access I'd use what battery power I have to put a help me post on a few forums and for making and receiving calls, not surfing a db to figure out who to call.

The question I'd ask the board is what is the true purpose of the Anon book. I believe the primary purpose is to provide a (emergency) resource for travelers, followed by social networking. The social networking is now all on-line but I do see some value of having a list of folks offering KK on-line, that would be good for trip planning for the folks who don't like to broadcast on the forum. As an aside I update my Anon info on-line so the data is already there.

I have no problem with an electronic version as we already have the data in correct format however I don't support spending any money on outside contractors, etc. I understand we have a real IT wiz in STL. If he can do it great otherwise the money should stay in the bank.

Putting it all on line would not improve the chances of a member getting assistance far from home.

Rob,
I appreciate your comments. We have received a growing number of requests for an electronic (i.e. "smartphone") version of the Anon Book. Although I know there will be situations without cell phone service often, in many of those cases if you don't have a working phone then having a number (from hardcopy) is of little value. They are now situations where people leave home without their Anon Book: they forgot, it was in the tank bag of the other bike, it got water destroyed during the last ride, etc.

Improving information delivery means provide more channels and formats, not less. Smartphone usage is exploding, and they and tablets will soon supplant traditional desktop and laptop computers - so we need to provide a lot of our information in formats for these devices. However, there are no plans to every discontinue a hard copy Anon Book. For all the reasons you noted, I personally would want a hard copy with me. However, I would use it as a backup, not a primary resource, and so could pack it deep in my gear rather than give up valuable tank bag space.

Finally, the biggest challenge is to keep the Anon Book secure from duplication and access by non-members. I'm in this book because right now I'm confident that it goes only to other MOA members. Frankly, I trust them more than non-members, especially if that non-member is contacting me using what he/she knows is stolen information. Right there I don't want them around. So this is a technical challenge and we'll have to have confidence in the solution.
 
Rob,
I appreciate your comments. We have received a growing number of requests for an electronic (i.e. "smartphone") version of the Anon Book. Although I know there will be situations without cell phone service often, in many of those cases if you don't have a working phone then having a number (from hardcopy) is of little value. They are now situations where people leave home without their Anon Book: they forgot, it was in the tank bag of the other bike, it got water destroyed during the last ride, etc.

How much are we willing to spend to support folks that can't pack? If you're stuck in an area with no cell service there is a good chance that at some point someone will stop and help you get to a phone or make a call for you. If they take me to a phone I bring the book, if they make a call for me it's to the local authorities. Heck, some of the towns along RT 50 don't have cell service. As an aside how many folks carry a phone card from their tellco or a prepaid $20 long distance card when you tour? I fear there's a whole crop of younger riders who would be totally clueless if they blew their bike up in the middle of nowhere because they left home with a false sense of security. Granted these aren't reasons not to go on-line, just observations on how it will not enhance the chances of the system working.

Improving information delivery means provide more channels and formats, not less. Smartphone usage is exploding, and they and tablets will soon supplant traditional desktop and laptop computers - so we need to provide a lot of our information in formats for these devices. However, there are no plans to every discontinue a hard copy Anon Book. For all the reasons you noted, I personally would want a hard copy with me. However, I would use it as a backup, not a primary resource, and so could pack it deep in my gear rather than give up valuable tank bag space.

If you're broken down on the side of the road does it really matter if you have to unpack the bike? I hear ya on all the channel and format but not everything needs to be in every format does it?

Finally, the biggest challenge is to keep the Anon Book secure from duplication and access by non-members. I'm in this book because right now I'm confident that it goes only to other MOA members. Frankly, I trust them more than non-members, especially if that non-member is contacting me using what he/she knows is stolen information. Right there I don't want them around. So this is a technical challenge and we'll have to have confidence in the solution.

Agreed. Once again I'm not against making it electronic because I trust you to address the security concerns. What I am against is spending money in a down economy after an under performing (financially) rally on something that will not improve the core purpose of the book.

How much are we willing to spend to save someone a little packing space?
 
How much are we willing to spend to support folks that can't pack? If you're stuck in an area with no cell service there is a good chance that at some point someone will stop and help you get to a phone or make a call for you. If they take me to a phone I bring the book, if they make a call for me it's to the local authorities. Heck, some of the towns along RT 50 don't have cell service. As an aside how many folks carry a phone card from their tellco or a prepaid $20 long distance card when you tour? I fear there's a whole crop of younger riders who would be totally clueless if they blew their bike up in the middle of nowhere because they left home with a false sense of security. Granted these aren't reasons not to go on-line, just observations on how it will not enhance the chances of the system working.

If you're broken down on the side of the road does it really matter if you have to unpack the bike? I hear ya on all the channel and format but not everything needs to be in every format does it?

Agreed. Once again I'm not against making it electronic because I trust you to address the security concerns. What I am against is spending money in a down economy after an under performing (financially) rally on something that will not improve the core purpose of the book.

How much are we willing to spend to save someone a little packing space?


Rob,
Your reasons for using the hardcopy Anon are valid. I don't disagree and I personally do the same thing. However, an electronic version is often requested by our current members, and is the type of delivery expected by the much sought after "younger" members. For the MOA to grow, we have to do a good job of satisfying our current member's expectations, but we also have to appeal to potential members, many of whom have different expectations (needs) in some areas. It's time for us to be more aggressive in our evolution - not less so.
 
Rob,
Your reasons for using the hardcopy Anon are valid. I don't disagree and I personally do the same thing. However, an electronic version is often requested by our current members, and is the type of delivery expected by the much sought after "younger" members. For the MOA to grow, we have to do a good job of satisfying our current member's expectations, but we also have to appeal to potential members, many of whom have different expectations (needs) in some areas. It's time for us to be more aggressive in our evolution - not less so.

Additions are good. In this specific case, subtractions are not.

I still remember the institutional chaos which resulted from the decision to make the Anonymous listing a 1-800 call in service in-lieu of printing the book. The member rebellion was enormous. That aside, the one time I needed to use it, standing at a phone booth in the wind at the north gate at Yellowstone trying to figure out what little towns to tell the hapless and helpless operator to look at, it (call-in service) was useless.

I will repeat - regardless of the spiffiness of the mobile application I would still carry the book for those many occasions where I am out of cell phone or other coverage. With the book I can always find the nearest landline phone, rotary dial and all, and call for help.
 
I believe security is a key issue in this discussion that must be addressed in a smart phone type app. I also believe Emperor Anon has no clothes when it comes to security.

Anon is marginally more secure than the telephone white pages. The current Anonymous Book is only 'secure' if it never comes in contact with a copying machine, is shredded/burned or otherwise destroyed at the end of its life and your and every other member's tankbag used to carry the book is never stolen. The book has the appearance of security because copied stole or scavenged from the waste bin copies have not gotten in the hands of someone who saw value in exploiting what they found. At the point someone sees value it is no more secure than the white pages.

Recruitment/retention of membership is a third purpose for the book not mentioned in the previous post. I would argue that is a major if not the primary issue in the discussion of a online/smart phone app. The needs of a decreasing existing membership may be well met by a print version but is it the key accessory for a BMW rider that convinces them to become/remain members?

I appreciate the attention and efforts of the BoD on this matter. I also realize the items on their plate related to the rally and such. Don't count them in the delaying factors for this not happening as of yet.

What has struck me every time this topic surfaces (it has surfaced every year I have been a forum member) is that no skunk works group of members has formed to produce a prototype. You can draw various conclusions from this observation. I see it as a symptom that there isn't the right combination of energy, skill and interest to tackle the project on a member volunteer basis.

When a former association treasurer urges keeping the money in the bank, the advice should not be taken lightly. I do not, yet I do not completely agree with the advice. We may have a very good IT guy in STL but is designing and building this a) truly in their area of expertise b) the best use of their time and salary? They should be the ones to write the RFP, monitor and manage the build and implementation and making certain the association's other systems are up to the task of handling the application's volume and making certain it is done securely. A quick and dirty breakeven analysis will tell the decision makes how many memberships recruited/retained are need to offset the expense over the expected life of a application build for an outside contractor to bang the code and other dirty work and be cost effective.
 
If the only reason to put the anon book on-line is "marketing" or appealing to a new segment of BMW riders I have to say there must be much more effective ways to spend the money.
 
I believe security is a key issue in this discussion that must be addressed in a smart phone type app. I also believe Emperor Anon has no clothes when it comes to security.

Anon is marginally more secure than the telephone white pages. The current Anonymous Book is only 'secure' if it never comes in contact with a copying machine, is shredded/burned or otherwise destroyed at the end of its life and your and every other member's tankbag used to carry the book is never stolen. The book has the appearance of security because copied stole or scavenged from the waste bin copies have not gotten in the hands of someone who saw value in exploiting what they found. At the point someone sees value it is no more secure than the white pages.

Sure, someone can photocopy - or scan - the Anon as it is. That's been an option for years. However, it's a PITA and there's not all that much exploitable information value, so the motivation would be to give free copies to your cheapskate non-member BMW riding buddies for their cross country trip. At the other extreme, a PDF version of the Anon (NO - we're not going to do that) would be like encouraging people to pass it around. So, as you clearly point out, an electronic Anon only needs to be as "secure" as the present hardcopy version.

Recruitment/retention of membership is a third purpose for the book not mentioned in the previous post. I would argue that is a major if not the primary issue in the discussion of a online/smart phone app. The needs of a decreasing existing membership may be well met by a print version but is it the key accessory for a BMW rider that convinces them to become/remain members?

I mentioned that in my last reply to Rob.

I appreciate the attention and efforts of the BoD on this matter. I also realize the items on their plate related to the rally and such. Don't count them in the delaying factors for this not happening as of yet.

What has struck me every time this topic surfaces (it has surfaced every year I have been a forum member) is that no skunk works group of members has formed to produce a prototype. You can draw various conclusions from this observation. I see it as a symptom that there isn't the right combination of energy, skill and interest to tackle the project on a member volunteer basis.

Certainly a member/volunteer solution or project would be appreciated, but this is a project of our Media Department.

When a former association treasurer urges keeping the money in the bank, the advice should not be taken lightly.

Rob was Secretary a number of years ago - not Treasurer.

I do not, yet I do not completely agree with the advice. We may have a very good IT guy in STL but is designing and building this a) truly in their area of expertise b) the best use of their time and salary? They should be the ones to write the RFP, monitor and manage the build and implementation and making certain the association's other systems are up to the task of handling the application's volume and making certain it is done securely. A quick and dirty breakeven analysis will tell the decision makes how many memberships recruited/retained are need to offset the expense over the expected life of a application build for an outside contractor to bang the code and other dirty work and be cost effective.

I appreciate everyone's interest in this topic, but believe I've contributed all I can at this point. We don't have such a service yet, but we are planning on it. Our current members want this service, and it advances our technology. It will be "secure" (enough), cost effective, and while it will please some but it will not appeal to everyone. We won't be eliminating the hardcopy version, but it might be an option to opt out of the hardcopy. I'm going to have to bow out now. Thanks for your comments. If you *really* feel strongly about this (or any other topic) send your comments to "board@bmwmoa.org". They will get read that way by the whole Board, which is not the case with forum threads. Thanks.
 
If the only reason to put the anon book on-line is "marketing" or appealing to a new segment of BMW riders I have to say there must be much more effective ways to spend the money.

If that were the only reason I would agree with you. Based on what I have read in this and other threads on this topic that is not the case being argued.

snipped.

So, as you clearly point out, an electronic Anon only needs to be as "secure" as the present hardcopy version.

I mentioned that in my last reply to Rob.
I was writing while you were posting so missed your comments before hitting the submit button :wave



Certainly a member/volunteer solution or project would be appreciated, but this is a project of our Media Department.



Rob was Secretary a number of years ago - not Treasurer. :blush my mistake.

I too must go do other things.
 
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