Anonymous book online??

RTFlyer said:

Umm...I have a copier 10 feet from me right now and nothing standing in the way of making as many copies as I like. I also have the ability to scan documents and convert them to PDF files. This evil technology already exists yet myself and countless others with access to it resist each day!

Click to expand...

That's always been out there, but the logistics of that certainly would deter most people from going to the bother. Plus, if they did, it would be a copyright violation and prosecutable if done on a large scale. However, the question at hand here is about using a PDF format. If the 'MOA distributed the Anon Book in a PDF format it would be like we were actively encouraging people to treat it like a free and unrestricted resource.

I think that we're on two different pages here too. If you prefer a paper copy and can have one, and I prefer a digital copy and can have one, what is lost to either of us?

Click to expand...

No, we're not. I would love some kind of on-line access to the Anon Book - BUT - it has to be provided in a way that reduces the risks of widespread electronic duplication and distribution. There are several ways of doing that using on-line viewers and search systems. However, a PDF file fails that test, and in the past we've gotten a lot of feedback from members - who wanted electronic access themselves - who said they would drop participation in the Anon Book if it were available in an unprotected format, like a PDF.

Speaking to that fact, I would like to see a show of hands of how many people on this thread are listed in the Anon Book? My point is we need to make sure we get the opinions of the people who are volunteering to be listed there, since it is their information we're talking about. I'm in there, and have been for many years.

GregFeeler said:

................ I'm in there, and have been for many years.

Click to expand...

Out of interest Greg, how many calls have you made and/or taken based on the Anon Book?

rmarkr said:

Out of interest Greg, how many calls have you made and/or taken based on the Anon Book?

Click to expand...

Over the years I've had about 15 to 20 Anon calls. Either directly to me or referred to me by someone else local who was in there: directions, broken bike, etc. I've never needed to call for myself, but have for others who left their Anon book at home and got stuck somewhere. The people who I've met have been fantastic, and always amazed that someone they don't know would take their time to help them. The recipient immediately gets the "pay it forward" idea when you refuse any compensation for your time or gas.

I'm sounding argumentative and sarcastic and I apologize for that.

I guess I'm just trying to say that it should be possible to provide the information electronically in as secure a way as is currently done, and even more so. I have both an iPhone app and online access that let me do banking which I hope and believe to be secure. A password protected app or online database that requires a one-time registration including the users valid MOA info and member number should restrict access to members only and provide the necessary level of security.

Maybe I'm just not seeing all the issues.

Are we getting ourselves into a faux argument where there is no basis for argument in the first place?

The OP requested Anonymous be put in a digital form that could be accessed readily.
Others chimed in with agreement and suggestions of how they would implement / use a digital Anonymous.

Greg, your response was itÔÇÖs in the works but not on todayÔÇÖs to do list.

Having just received our latest Anonymous and with so many getting ready for the heart of the 2010 touring season the sentiment appears to be to move it up the to do list.

Security is an issue in both print and electronic formats.
Protecting member benefit value v enhancing value by adding an electronic version appears to be a battle already fought by the BOD and Editorial staff now it is an implementation issue.

I was in Anonymous for all my member years until the last two issues. My work has me moving around a lot.

I have never received a call from a rider nor have I called on someone in the Anonymous.

When taking breaks on the side of the road when touring bikes stop to see if I am in trouble, the most consistent thing about these riders is the high number of them that have BMW MOA stickers on their bikes.

Anonymous is just a book. BMW MOA is just a motorcycle association. The value in either is the people. The security (how ever you define or apply that word) is in the people.

All anyone is asking is to move the electronic version up the to do list and make it a priority.

GregFeeler said:

SNIP

Speaking to that fact, I would like to see a show of hands of how many people on this thread are listed in the Anon Book? My point is we need to make sure we get the opinions of the people who are volunteering to be listed there, since it is their information we're talking about. I'm in there, and have been for many years.

Click to expand...

My hand is up. Nashville, IL

RTFlyer said:

I'm sounding argumentative and sarcastic and I apologize for that.

I guess I'm just trying to say that it should be possible to provide the information electronically in as secure a way as is currently done, and even more so. I have both an iPhone app and online access that let me do banking which I hope and believe to be secure. A password protected app or online database that requires a one-time registration including the users valid MOA info and member number should restrict access to members only and provide the necessary level of security.

Maybe I'm just not seeing all the issues.

Click to expand...

Larry,
I think you and I are on exactly the same page, now with this post. This thread has talked about on-line access, and also a possible PDF file distribution. The PDF file has issues - but I'm totally with you about the value of on-line access, and that there are ways of providing the right security.

SIBUD said:

My hand is up. Nashville, IL

Click to expand...

You always have your hand up!

Mika said:

Are we getting ourselves into a faux argument where there is no basis for argument in the first place?

The OP requested Anonymous be put in a digital form that could be accessed readily.
Others chimed in with agreement and suggestions of how they would implement / use a digital Anonymous.

Greg, your response was itÔÇÖs in the works but not on todayÔÇÖs to do list.

Having just received our latest Anonymous and with so many getting ready for the heart of the 2010 touring season the sentiment appears to be to move it up the to do list.

Security is an issue in both print and electronic formats.
Protecting member benefit value v enhancing value by adding an electronic version appears to be a battle already fought by the BOD and Editorial staff now it is an implementation issue.

I was in Anonymous for all my member years until the last two issues. My work has me moving around a lot.

I have never received a call from a rider nor have I called on someone in the Anonymous.

When taking breaks on the side of the road when touring bikes stop to see if I am in trouble, the most consistent thing about these riders is the high number of them that have BMW MOA stickers on their bikes.

Anonymous is just a book. BMW MOA is just a motorcycle association. The value in either is the people. The security (how ever you define or apply that word) is in the people.

All anyone is asking is to move the electronic version up the to do list and make it a priority.

Click to expand...

Well stated summary. Vince makes his own schedule for things like this. I don't know where it is in the stack, but I don't think it's this year. First, we have a *very* tight budget this year and such a service will cost money to implement that we haven't budgeted. Secondly, we are installing new on-line services software over the spring and summer and that is going to keep our I.T. people very busy. (Everyone hates the on-line member/registration software we have now, so this should make a lot of people happy). Again, this is Vince's project and I know he's very committed to delivering it as soon as he can. Good feedback and discussion.

GregFeeler said:

Are you in the Anonymous Book? Why, or why not?

Click to expand...

Yes I am, but I am listed in a very small town so I doubt people would call me if they are in need one mile east or west of it. I offer full services except a trailer but my brother has one in case of a real emergency ( its just not set up for bike transport).

I average about 5 International traveler visits a year and I house bikes from Argentina, Australia and a US registered bike belonging to a Spaniard. There is even a MSF Dirt Bike school behind my house thats is available as soon as another MOAer wishes to teach there. And our first two students were foreign tuning up their skills as they pressed forward to South America.

A major issue for me is I work in other areas of the country so I can't be a 24 / 7 person in waiting.

I also never had to use the book for self interest, but a friend of mine did and its is a priceless value we have.

GregFeeler said:

Speaking to that fact, I would like to see a show of hands of how many people on this thread are listed in the Anon Book? My point is we need to make sure we get the opinions of the people who are volunteering to be listed there, since it is their information we're talking about. I'm in there, and have been for many years.

Click to expand...

Well, you have the number of contacts in the Anon book. Divide by household memberships will give you a sample size of the particpants in total (not forum users)

Now if you only had their phone numbers to survey

GregFeeler said:

Speaking to that fact, I would like to see a show of hands of how many people on this thread are listed in the Anon Book? My point is we need to make sure we get the opinions of the people who are volunteering to be listed there, since it is their information we're talking about. I'm in there, and have been for many years.

Click to expand...

Sugar Valley, Georgia here.............

No calls in the last 10 years. Of course who knows where geographically I am actually. Perhaps the online version could be a map of the state and then when you click on a region in the state it could bring up a list of folks within a certain distance.......Or perhaps you could plug in the zip code of where you are interested in getting help and a list could come up within a given distance.........

Back in the late 70's and early 80's I used to get folks, I call them leaches, that would travel around using the ANON book as a guide for a cheap easy way to get lodging and food. This happened several times until I learned to discriminate on the call itself......HELP yes, lodging NO..........

Now, have posted a couple of times in the Regional Thread, the South, about having an area up on top of the mountain in the woods that is great for camping and nature but no takers.......Our demography has changed a lot and now the tent travelers are B&B expectations.........Dennis

This post is to address the security issues in regards to the files...

If the anonymous book were to take the form of the online magazine, access can be restricted with a password or at least the software solution we use to do digital publications has that feature..

Also pdf files can be passworded as well...

I'm in the book, but never been called. Maybe when people get to the Pac. NW this summer

Not in book - am supposed to be - would love to connect via smart phone

As a new but "older" member I support the concept of advancing the initiative of an online / smart phone accessible "Anonymous" listings and trying to secure funds from the next budget process to consider implementation.
So moved.
Seconder?

A vote for digital

I'm a fairly new member - 2 years now. I put my name in the A book when I signed up. The book was a big factor in my decision to join. I definitely considered privacy issues, 'leeches', etc - and then I thought about when my last bike died in the middle of nowhere at dusk, and I had to call a friend with a trailer who was 90 miles away...and the cold, dark evening I spent waiting on the road...

I'm a techie, so I'm all for digital versions. I agree that a PDF would likely prevent people from signing up - I might think twice. Sure, a PDF can be password-protected, printing and copying/pasting can be suppressed, etc, and I doubt many people would consciously post it online - but it would happen eventually.

Web access to the A book would be great; an app would be even better. Access to either can be secured to keep out non-members.

Features that would really sell an app: integration with the mapping function; integration with the phone dialer (click a button to dial a member's phone if it's published); an offline mode (international, no signal, etc); searching/filtering.

I would absolutely pay for the convenience & functionality of an app, or a few extra $ per year for web access. I gladly pay for quality apps. Projects like this are expensive - I wouldn't expect it for free, and I assume many members would feel the same way. Hopefully that would generate enough revenue to cover development & maintenance and possibly even more.

I was thinking about alternatives to in-house development. Most smartphone apps (iPhone and especially Android) are developed by users. Maybe the board could run a "develop the MOA smartphone app" contest: allow members to develop and submit an app; pick the winning app and give the member a prize (free one-year membership?); then take over final testing, integration of the live Anonymous Book data, and rollout. It would be much cheaper to develop, get people involved and interested, and take advantage of the depth of technical expertize of the BMW community.

Some thoughts:
* Digital and print are complementary, not mutually exclusive
* If the board took a survey and enough people said 'digital, please', printing costs could be reduced, year over year as more people choose digital
* Possibly have two options/price points on the new member form, based on their preference for paper or digital

Just a last comment regarding paper "security" for the book. Does everyone shred their old anonymous book or do you use another method for securing the sensitive information in it? Just asking as every means of transmitting information has a security risk. Would a more or less permanent PAPER document be more secure than say an electronic one? I seem to recall that permanent archives all seem to be the paper variety. Just sayin.....

Hi everyone,
On the topic of a Digital Anonymous Book - we have discussed this for a couple of years and continue to explore the concept and the best way to accompish it. I agree it would be a great app.

Vince

Let's see.

Put the magazine online.

Put the anonymous book online.

Try to collect dues.

lkchris said:

Let's see.

Put the magazine online.

Put the anonymous book online.

Try to collect dues.

Click to expand...

You have to be a current member to access the ON on line - and it's can't be copied for distribution. The same type of constraints will apply to any "on-line" or electronic version of the Anonymous Book.