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Anybody using oil additives?

99007

El Dookey loves to ride.
I used to put some of that real slippery stuff in my car when I was a traveling sales rep. (PTFF or what ever it is) I noticed that my gas milage improved slightly and the other part of the story which encouraged me to purchase it was that it "coated" the moving parts with this thin layer of lube so when you started the engine it was lubed even before the oil could be pumped around. I am thinking about adding some to the Rockster - especially with the year round riding effort. I did change to a cold weather viscosity.
What do all ya'all think about these oil additives? (I am talking about the $15-$20 stuff you just put in once every 2-3 oil changes.)
 
Don't do it. You'll get a better return on your effort and investment by just plain changing oil when recommended. Some additives contain suspended solids that can clog filters, and I read somewhere that none are actually successful at coating anything.
Did you carefully trach that increase in MPG? Was it repeatable enough and significant enough to justify the expense of the snake oil?
 
how about just synthetic, once your engine is broke in, thats what i am doing, heard lots of good feedback...matthew
 
Just synthetic oil is fine, after all that oil can withstand the ravages of heat vs time etc quite well. It has been working fine in all my engines for many years and lots of abuse (outboard 4 stroke especially).
As long as you keep oil in you engine that meets or exceeds the specs of the engine manufacturer you should be fine.
 
I'm in agreement with the others on sticking with a staight (good quality) oil. Years ago, I asked the same question of a master mechanic, and he recommended against it for the same reasons Veg mentioned. The suspended stuff that "coats" the parts can clog the tiny oil channels (if that is the right term) and actually end up working against you.
 
i'm an engineer, so my answer is of course, it depends.

in a properly functioning modern engine, i'd say don't do it.

in my (ex) VW bus, i used to run "engine restore" or some sort of blue gunk that came in a little pull tab can. when i didnt use it, my bus left a smoke trail like you wouldnt believe. you'd think spicoli or cheech and chong were in the back. :D and when i *did* use it, my bus did not smoke. a number of mechanics told me i had a choice, use the blue gunk or rebuild the engine. i religiously changed the oil in that engine every three months, which was about every 1000 miles, and i experimented with not adding the blue gunk. 100 miles into it, poof, im smokin'. change the oil, put in the blue gunk, im not smokin'.

so what im *really* saying is that if you have an old engine, and you can experiment to keep it going a tad longer, for less money, some oil additives might help. youre going to end up rebuilding it, but it's nice to have a little control over when you do that.

when i was younger, i used to use slick50 in my buick century. that had the 2.8l carbeurated motor (dude, that thing was a chick magnet in college!) and i cant say for sure that it mattered much, that car was freakin bulletproof. but i used it, and i used to *feel* better. that may have been a big rationalization on my part to justify adding 19.95 to the cost of the oil change every 50k miles. (i only used it twice...) also, i lived in rochester, NY, and definitely had my fair share of super cold starts. (5W-30 oil)

unfortunately, my alchemy experience has been limited to automobiles.

cliffy - would you please tell me what oil youre running in the bike now, and how you chose it? (i've got an r1150ra) im half considering a move to the north, and if i go, i'd likely join the rounders, and i wouldnt want to overly abuse my engine on cold starts. i havent done the homework on this at all, so any info youve got on choosing a lighter winter oil, especially *how* you chose, would be super helpful.

thanks.
 
don't you live in texas? moving north? whatsamattayou?
sorry. on to the questions. i am currently running castrol 10w40 for the winter months. how did i choose? well, i've used castrol in past bikes and they worked. i am not too mechanical.
on the subject of additives, when i used them in my car i consulted with a mechanic i knew and trusted. he was retired from the michigan state police and used to keep their cars on the road. he supported additives with the logic that anything that adds more lubricating properties is a good thing.
Currently i was looking at the PTTF additives that claim to put a teflon like coating on the metal, hence cold weather starts are easier on the machine. i met a guy once (at an oil change place) who told me his car lost it's oil (freeze plug popped out) and he drove 50 miles and didn't know it because he had PTTF in the motor. I dunno. maybe i will just forget it and drive.
 
I have used the Teflon additives in two automoblile engines (one Japaneses, one German). Both engines ran cooler after use and temp needle gradually eased back up with miles until retreatment and then dropped back again. Both engines increased gas mileage of about 3-5% and I do track mileage. BUT I have been told these additives tend to make metal more brittle with use and both of these engines broke piston rings at about 100k. Maybe just bad luck, but neither of these engines were known for ring problems and the mileage was close on both. I will not try them again.
 
how about some thoughts about synthetic oils. if i change oil every 2500 miles without missing a beat what benefit do i gain. my 04 rt has just under 15k miles, if the benefits are there is the time right. any advice will help thanks
 
There is always Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Its a petro product and I believe doesnt have PTFE in it. Im wondering if its a lot of ZDDP ? It doesnt say on the bottle but I think its used in nascar or other racing applications. Check it out at your local autoparts place. I do know that adding it to the gearbox makes these notchy airheads -less so
 
Cliffy777 said:
What do all ya'all think about these oil additives?

In the engine? NO.

In the transmission and rear drive of my R80 GS PD and R100 GS, I use Dow Corning Lubricant M Gear Guard at 5%.

In the rear drive of my 2003 and 2004 R1150 GS Adventure, I use Dow Corning Lubricant M Gear Guard at 5%. Both of those rear drives when drained at the 1000 km inspection had an additive in it...no question about it. The rear drive lubes came out as black as the gear lubes I mix the DC in with. Gear lubes don't turn pitch black in 1000 kms or 10,000 kms.

BMW isn't telling us something.
 
Cliffy777 said:
i met a guy once (at an oil change place) who told me his car lost it's oil (freeze plug popped out) and he drove 50 miles and didn't know it because he had PTTF in the motor. I dunno. maybe i will just forget it and drive.[/QUOTE

For what it's worth, if you lost a freeze plug, you'll loose your anti-freeze, not your oil. But to your question, any proper motorcycle rated oil made today, synthetic or dino, is all you need to keep your bike in excellent condition. You do not want to use any oil marked EC...not good for the bike. My local BMW dealer recommends regular oil changes using dino oils...the only really advantage to synthetics over dino is it's life span, which means less changes...but it cost almost twice as much so the only financial advantage is the cost of 1/2 an oil filter , or about $ 6.50......me, I change oil and filter every 3,000 and use Spectro 20-50 year round. And if I am on a trip and need to top off, Walmart and a qt of Castrol does the trick. and in over 100,000 miles, I ve never had a problem.
 
Global Rider said:
Usually at a bearing supply store. Pricey, but it does make 20 US quarts of oil. Split it with other riders.

Dow Corning Lubricant - M Gear Guard

It may be worth noting - Dow - at least on the bottle of Gear-Guard
I have, does not recommend mixing it with synthetic oil products.

This may have changed (the bottle is about 5 years old), but I would
consider the best thing to use in transmissions and rear-drives to be
a quality synthetic gear lube meeting BMW's requirements. The BMW
70w-140 gear lube is quite good in smoothing out klunky K bike
transmissions.

As far as engine oil - it it doesn't come in the oil from the manufacturer
I'm not going to second guess them and try brewing up a mix. They
have a vested interest in their oil doing good things for you. I use
Mobil-1 Red-Cap 15w-40 year round in my K75S, and according to
an oil test I had done - it's doing good things in my engine at
6,000 mile change intervals.

Here is a link to the report - you'll need Adobe Acrobat to
read it:

http://www.eilenberger.net/K75S/C21138.pdf

Best,
 
deilenberger said:
It may be worth noting - Dow - at least on the bottle of Gear-Guard I have, does not recommend mixing it with synthetic oil products.

This may have changed (the bottle is about 5 years old), but I would
consider the best thing to use in transmissions and rear-drives to be
a quality synthetic gear lube meeting BMW's requirements. The BMW
70w-140 gear lube is quite good in smoothing out klunky K bike
transmissions.
Best,


Hi Don,

The label on my latest bottle (as well as the bottle I bought about 5 years ago) of Dow Corning makes no specific mention of synthethics, unless polyalkylene glycol, diester silicone or water soluable cutting oils are known as "synthetics".

Not a concern of mine as I mix it with the recommended 90 Hypoid gear oil meeting API GL5, Bel Ray in my case.

BMW NA may sell 75W-140, but nowhere in my owner's handbook or their service CD does it mention that grade.

Most owners don't perform their first inspection so they may not be aware that BMW is usuing an additive in the rear drives of their latest motorcycles...GSes at least.

BTW nowhere in that oil report does it say who Blackstone Laboratories are traceable to. Is their equipment calibrated?
 
Don't Do It!!!

That is, unless you REALLY want to ruin your engine. PFTE is otherwise known as teflon, the exact same stuff that coats nonstick cookware. The reason it is so bad for an engine is because it is a solid, and can clog up your oil passages, resulting in the mechanical equivalent of a massive heart attack. There is no manufacturer that recommends this stuff, and for good reason. I think BMW would void your warrantee if you added it to your engine.

Do you really want to take that chance?
 
gezerbike said:
But to your question, any proper motorcycle rated oil made today, synthetic or dino, is all you need to keep your bike in excellent condition. You do not want to use any oil marked EC...not good for the bike..


I'd say spend a few minutes on any oil related site, like the one RJ linked. EC oil is only a problem if you have a wet clutch, which most BMW DON'T have, unless you ride an F type. And FWIW, if you're running any XXW/50 chances are it's EC even if it doesn't say it's EC. Part of the EC spec dissallows any viscosity over 40 Weight. Castrol 20W/50 for instance is the exact formulation as EC labeled 10W/40 (without so much viscosity modifiers, of course)
And in all the reading I've done, the only confirmed benefit of the extra dough that motorcycle specific oil buys you is peace of mind. There's not really any huge difference (aside from the cost) that wouldn't be negated by frequent changes. Any quality name brand oil of the proper viscosity is fine in your bike.
Like I'm fond of saying "clean oil is better than dirty oil and dirty oil is better than no oil". Golden Spectro and Amsoil advertising claims aside, there's no DATA that proves otherwise.
Alex, are you certain what you drained out of your rear end isn't a "break-in" forumula? One of the reasons that 600 mile check is so important. Triumph, for instance, has a special Mobil 1 "break-in" dino oil that helps seat rings, etc. It comes out at 600 miles and M-1 15W50 synth goes in. Voids the warranty for any engine related failure if it's not changed.
 
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