Radar Detector

JPONIKTERA · Dec 11, 2009

organ donor

"You mean I can use the speedometer to avoid traffic tickets? My, a ticket avoidance system built into every motorcycle"

drive the speed limit in commuter traffic in LA or SAN DIEGO. be an organ donor.
in the late sixties, early seventies, i went years without a car. more hostility now.
MOST DRIVERS ARE VERY POLITE. 1% are cretins. i am an agressive rider. i am willing to pay the tickets. no problemo

BCKRider · Dec 12, 2009

My take on speeding is that there is huge difference between "legal" and "safe." Definining legal is easy. There are the signs and lots of ways of enforcing your actual speed. Safe speed is sometimes faster than posted and even (occasionally) a little faster than other traffic. I think judgment is a better device than radar detectors to avoid both accidents and tickets. That said:

1. Always follow the "locals" example. If they are doing the posted speed or 5 over, there is a good reason. It may be safety or enforcement issues not obvious to you. This holds true in both small towns and highways.

2. When you leave a small town, hold that speed under +10 above until you have passed the higher speed limit sign. That is a favorite "speed trap" area because the higher limit does not take effect until you pass the sign.

3. Think about your speed on those twisty 2-lane roads. Can you stop within your sight distance? (Hard to practice.) I know many riders who go considerably faster than I on these roads for years. Skill or luck? But we are not fretting about LEO's. Each to their own.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you ride or drive, you WILL sometimes exceed the posted limit. Take responsibility for your speed decisions, bearing most in mind your own safety and the safety of the other people sharing the road.

I now have 13 years of motorcycle riding (with pretty low mileage per year, I admit) but NO speeding tickets on the bike or the car.

When I lost my first and only radar detecter from my first new car in 1991 (a smash and grab) I decided to never replace it. I've never regretted that decision.

rocketman · Dec 12, 2009

Interesting comments here by both Don and Greenwald. Actually I think they are both right, each in different way. I, like Don, don't think speed is "inherently" unsafe, nor do I think motorcycling is either. But I also agree with Greenwald that each adds an increased risk. While the statements may seem similar on the surface I see them as addressing two different aspects of the same subject. I've gotten flak in the past for making the statement that motoring is not "inherently" unsafe, at least until I explain what I see as the difference between what I said and what the listener interpreted it to mean.
I don't think its a matter of semantics but rather how each interprets the statements.

as for detectors I have never had one and living in VA it would be a waste of time anyway since it would put me at risk of getting two tickets or losing the money that I used to paid for it. That's at least one set of tires for the airhead or lots and lots of miles of fuel. I'd rather have the gas or the new tires!

RM

greenwald · Dec 12, 2009

BCKRIDER said:
My take on speeding is that there is huge difference between "legal" and "safe." Definining legal is easy. There are the signs and lots of ways of enforcing your actual speed. Safe speed is sometimes faster than posted and even (occasionally) a little faster than other traffic. I think judgment is a better device than radar detectors to avoid both accidents and tickets. That said:

1. Always follow the "locals" example. If they are doing the posted speed or 5 over, there is a good reason. It may be safety or enforcement issues not obvious to you. This holds true in both small towns and highways.

2. When you leave a small town, hold that speed under +10 above until you have passed the higher speed limit sign. That is a favorite "speed trap" area because the higher limit does not take effect until you pass the sign.

3. Think about your speed on those twisty 2-lane roads. Can you stop within your sight distance? (Hard to practice.) I know many riders who go considerably faster than I on these roads for years. Skill or luck? But we are not fretting about LEO's. Each to their own.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you ride or drive, you WILL sometimes exceed the posted limit. Take responsibility for your speed decisions, bearing most in mind your own safety and the safety of the other people sharing the road.

I now have 13 years of motorcycle riding (with pretty low mileage per year, I admit) but NO speeding tickets on the bike or the car.

When I lost my first and only radar detecter from my first new car in 1991 (a smash and grab) I decided to never replace it. I've never regretted that decision.

Enjoyed your comments on 'speed.' They all make sense, and are worth reading by all who visit here, IMHO.

Big difference between 'legal' and 'safe' - no arguement there. Sometimes (i.e. Wisconsin Winters!), 'safe' also means 'slower,' not 'faster.' But I get your point. Don't think for a minute that I don't cruise "with the traffic" in downtown Chicago or when meandering thru the Twin Cities. It would be arrogantly dangerous to simply obey posted limits - I get that.

Also appreciated your comment about when to increase your speed. State DOT's place changes in speed limits exactly where that can geographically and legally begin to occur. In otherwords, having the green light to bump it up from 25 MPH to 45 MPH doesn't take effect when you see the sign, but rather when you pass it. Good point you make.

Ride safe, take responsibility for any mistakes (citations) that go unforgiven by the LEO, and enjoy the open road. :wave

greenwald · Dec 12, 2009

rocketman said:
Interesting comments here by both Don and Greenwald. Actually I think they are both right, each in different way. I, like Don, don't think speed is "inherently" unsafe, nor do I think motorcycling is either. But I also agree with Greenwald that each adds an increased risk. While the statements may seem similar on the surface I see them as addressing two different aspects of the same subject. I've gotten flak in the past for making the statement that motoring is not "inherently" unsafe, at least until I explain what I see as the difference between what I said and what the listener interpreted it to mean.
I don't think its a matter of semantics but rather how each interprets the statements.

as for detectors I have never had one and living in VA it would be a waste of time anyway since it would put me at risk of getting two tickets or losing the money that I used to paid for it. That's at least one set of tires for the airhead or lots and lots of miles of fuel. I'd rather have the gas or the new tires!

RM

While it obviously involves managing a higher level of risk (no roll cages, sheet metal, airbags, seatbelts, bumpers, safety glass, crumple zones, etc. to protect us), HOW we manage it will go a long way in determining how safe or unsafe riding our motorcycles will be.

Speed is not "inherently unsafe." It is simply velocity. But equations are never constructed of a single component - many factors are present.

With respect to posted limits (and accepting the consequences of violating them!), ride at a speed you're comfortable with, based on your experience, training, equipment and environment (surface, traffic, hazards, weather, etc.).

Just remember: never let your speed become so reckless that it endangers your passenger or another user of the roadway.

Riding a motorcycle fast takes very little skill......they teach circus bears to do that.

Riding a motorcycle safe, regardless of speed, can earn you a cool title like rocketman! :bolt

leadfoot · Dec 14, 2009

JPONIKTERA said:
"You mean I can use the speedometer to avoid traffic tickets? My, a ticket avoidance system built into every motorcycle"

drive the speed limit in commuter traffic in LA or SAN DIEGO. be an organ donor.
in the late sixties, early seventies, i went years without a car. more hostility now.
MOST DRIVERS ARE VERY POLITE. 1% are cretins. i am an agressive rider. i am willing to pay the tickets. no problemo

A sensible rider will obey the speed limit. A smart rider knows when to travel with the flow of traffic. Agreed that in certain situations it makes absolutely no sense to obey the posted limit. I do not think you will get too many arguments from a "seasoned" rider regarding this, just some other options for dealing with it.

gsaddict · Dec 15, 2009

Where I live there is moving radar which my Detector has saved me numerous times. Then there is Laser which the Detector is simply announcing that I have just gotten a ticket.
The 2 officers working this part of the coast are long time career tax collectors and the local town receives 75% of the revenues from the provincial government. We even have proof of a 'secret' contest for # of tickets written in 1 year. They are very petty and would have no hesitation to write up their own mothers.

It's pretty tough to speed and get away with it but Radar detectors do work/help and all 3 vehicles in our family are equipped with them. I would not ride without one.

"Bad Cop - no doughnut!"

wezul · Dec 15, 2009

Seriously, are we still doing this?
It's a crap shoot kids, with all due respect to you techno geeks.
You's pays your money and you's takes your chances, OK?
And if you get caught be a human being and admit it and I think we are done now!

rocketman · Dec 16, 2009

Greenwald said:
While it obviously involves managing a higher level of risk (no roll cages, sheet metal, airbags, seatbelts, bumpers, safety glass, crumple zones, etc. to protect us), HOW we manage it will go a long way in determining how safe or unsafe riding our motorcycles will be.

Speed is not "inherently unsafe." It is simply velocity. But equations are never constructed of a single component - many factors are present.

With respect to posted limits (and accepting the consequences of violating them!), ride at a speed you're comfortable with, based on your experience, training, equipment and environment (surface, traffic, hazards, weather, etc.).

Just remember: never let your speed become so reckless that it endangers your passenger or another user of the roadway.

Riding a motorcycle fast takes very little skill......they teach circus bears to do that.

Riding a motorcycle safe, regardless of speed, can earn you a cool title like rocketman!

Ride within your comfort level and conditions? What an amazing idea! I like it! :lol

What is that saying about Fast is smooth, smooth is fast (enough for me anyway!)

Well cut corners and good line, minimal hard braking and a proper setup for each section of road makes one look faster even when you're not really riding (that) fast. Plus there is nothing more satisfying. 45 years and STILL learning, if I ever feel like there is nothing more to learn I should probably quit riding.

RM

serazin · Dec 18, 2009

I have a V1.

It works very well to detect constant radar signals. It will even pick up a stray POP or two. The LIDAR warning will just tell you that you should stop for your performance award.

What it does really well it warn you about the upcoming brake check that the 200 cars ahead of you are about to do because they see a LEO.

On I5 here in the central valley I often start to get KA alerts 1 or 2 miles before the screeching tires start. I just hang back and let the cars do their acrobatics.

Bud · Dec 19, 2009

Greenwald said:
<snip> and (in WI), I can visually estimate excessive speed (as long as I am stationary) and cite based on that alone. <snip>

I'm surprised that there have been no comments on this snip.

I had a good friend that was a LEO. We went out in his car and sat overlooking I 64 in S. IL. He turned the display so he couldn't see it and visually estimated the speed while I looked at the read out. He NEVER was off by more than 1 MPH and most of the time was dead on. I asked him how he did it. Answer? 30 years experience.

I still wonder why I'm asked "Do you know how fast you were going?"

I never admit to a number. I do say "I guess fast enough to get your attention. Sorry."

At a motorcycle "Safety Check Point", my BMW riding buddy and I, ATGATT, were waved past while every cruiser was waved in for an inspection of their license, registration, insurance etc.

About doing things that are illegal but "safe" such as passing on the double yellow etc. I have a lot of respect for those who do it and admit that it is illegal, take their lumps w/o complaining or looking for a way to try to get off.

I speed. Sometimes I get a performance award.

Ride Well
Ride Often
Ride to Eat

Harrington · Dec 19, 2009

Greenwald said:
7. +10 is pretty safe. +7.5 is real safe. This is called being reasonable in breaking the law (which I don't get all upset about since it isn't MORALLY wrong to speed, despite what prosecutors and LEOs sometimes express. There is no commandment "Thou shalt not speed..") Anyway - how fast do you gotta go? Almost any police department has an unwritten policy of not writing tickets for less than 10 over - just because it's a hassle.. too many people decide to fight them. The ideal ticket is one for +11 over, and it's paid by check, and the cop/prosecutor never have to come into the courtroom.

OK Deilenberger - you got me - I can barely type, I'm chuckling so hard. You made my morning!

Seriously, about 90% of what you wrote is an excellent perspective on this topic (and it's only a topic - no arguing needs to occur here - just friendly banter).

But the 'logic' of "it's OK to break the laws that aren't morally wrong" takes rationalization to a stratospheric level.

Over my career, I interacted with about 5,000 new people every year, and have kept a sort of mental glossary of rationalizations for illegal behavior. But yours is absolutely precious, and instantly breaks into the TOP FIVE.

"Have a nice day, and drive safely now."

Speed limits on Calfornia main Highways generally have a 15MPH buffer. I asked a CHP years ago during a performance citation. My wife was nervous about me asking the question. I told her there was nothing to worry about because I was already getting the ticket. He told me about the 15 mph over Mason/Dixon line. For the most part he wouldn't pull somebody over for that or less. I've found that to be the case on the major state highways.

Isn't it also correct that traffic studies effect future speed limits? That means that the law (max speed limit) is directly effected by drivers actions as well as legislative action. I'm sorry but I just don't place 5MPH over even in the same boat as spitting on the sidewalk.

greenwald · Dec 19, 2009

SIBUD said:
I'm surprised that there have been no comments on this snip.

I had a good friend that was a LEO. We went out in his car and sat overlooking I 64 in S. IL. He turned the display so he couldn't see it and visually estimated the speed while I looked at the read out. He NEVER was off by more than 1 MPH and most of the time was dead on. I asked him how he did it. Answer? 30 years experience.

I still wonder why I'm asked "Do you know how fast you were going?"

I never admit to a number. I do say "I guess fast enough to get your attention. Sorry."

At a motorcycle "Safety Check Point", my BMW riding buddy and I, ATGATT, were waved past while every cruiser was waved in for an inspection of their license, registration, insurance etc.

About doing things that are illegal but "safe" such as passing on the double yellow etc. I have a lot of respect for those who do it and admit that it is illegal, take their lumps w/o complaining or looking for a way to try to get off.

I speed. Sometimes I get a performance award.

Ride Well
Ride Often
Ride to Eat

In Wisconsin, during my Radar Certification from the State DOT, it was required of me to accurately estimate the speed of instructor vehicles 90% of the time. Takes some practice, but it is a learnable skill. And of course, 30+ years on the streets has given me a bit of an edge too!

Love the 'Ride to Eat' tagline!!!

tommcgee · Dec 20, 2009

wezul said:
Seriously, are we still doing this?
It's a crap shoot kids, with all due respect to you techno geeks.
You's pays your money and you's takes your chances, OK?
And if you get caught be a human being and admit it and I think we are done now!

No crap shoot unless you aren't paying attention. Radar isn't magic. If you've got a good receiver, you know when there are radar signals in the area. For some reason, many LEO's don't believe this. Their choice.

Tom "military radar tech"

greenwald · Dec 20, 2009

tommcgee said:
No crap shoot unless you aren't paying attention. Radar isn't magic. If you've got a good receiver, you know when there are radar signals in the area. For some reason, many LEO's don't believe this. Their choice.

Tom "military radar tech"

You're correct on a number of points, Tom.

Many of my fellow LEO's seemed to think that the expensive radar they operated was some sort of 'magic wand,' and would outsmart any countermeasures used by drivers motivated to speed.

A quality radar detector will always alert you to the signal present. However, a quality law enforcement officer will withhold that detectable signal until you cannot react fast enough to escape notice.

Consider all the tools in our LEO tool box: radar, laser, Vascar, aircraft, pacing, unmarked vehicles, visual estimating, timing lines or fixed objects, etc. and you can be the most alert, best countermeasure-equiped rider out there, and if I need to document you speeding, I can get the job done - no problem - really.

Fortunately, I worked for a department that (at least until shortly before my retirement) emphasized safety over statistics, and I wrote an embarrassingly low number of citations compared to neighboring agencies.

Safety is what it should be about, vs. revenue. Sadly, that is not a universal concept in law enforcement, and for that I apologize.

Ride Safe (and according to Bud - eat well too!)

igofar · Dec 20, 2009

radar detectors

Bandman said:
OK everyone, What is a good radar detector without spending an arm and a leg. Where is a good source to buy?

...and back to our original question....
Adaptiv. Made for motorcycles. Big buttons that are easily handled thru thick winter gloves. Weatherproof. $300. Advertised everywhere. I've had mine for a couple of months now and the only flaw I've found is that the external notification options are mandatory. The beeping can't be heard over Rob Zombie screaming out of my speakers thru 80 mph wind noise while the wife is shrieking for me to slow down.

There are MANY wise words in the prior posts. It's just a tool: But that tool works quite well with rabbits, experience, and forethought.

Rinty · Dec 20, 2009

...can't be heard over Rob Zombie...igofar

Can it be heard over just wind noise?

tommcgee · Dec 20, 2009

Greenwald said:
and you can be the most alert, best countermeasure-equiped rider out there, and if I need to document your speeding, I can get the job done - no problem - really.

The only time I've ever been tagged in two million accident-free miles was when I wasn't paying attention to the speedo, radar receiver or not. None of us can pay attention to the speed indicator 100% of the time, on either side of this confrontation. And especially on the bike, when I take my eyes off the road to look at the speedo, I feel like I'm putting myself at risk.

As I said early on in this thread, practically every cop car in my part of the world is radar equipped and (especially) for those of us who do a lot of miles, it's impossible to avoid getting painted every time a LEO turns a corner.

And you're right. LEO training is better and the radar transmitters and other gear are better. And yeah, I was a Navy ECM tech too.

igofar · Jan 2, 2010

Adaptiv Audio

rinty said:
Can it be heard over just wind noise?

If I keep to the speed limit, and keep the sterio off, the Adaptiv is loud enough to give warning. That's on a 'LT with a tall windshield. There's little hope for hearing it with more background noise than that.

pglaves · Jan 2, 2010

With all due respect to the LEOs here and elsewhere I sometimes tire of the methodological explanation I hear. For example, since aerial timing of a vehicle between two points is considered a "speed trap" in California I am told that what the troopers do is pace the car exactly with their airplane and time a wing strut between those two points marked on the road. Oh, sure they do!

I have been told numerous times that the officer's observation is the primary evidence and that they then just turn the radar on to verify their observation. Oh, sure they do. In that case I can recall numerous times that the officer's observation skills were somewhere between very poor and bad, since they saw me approaching on a motorcycle and turned on the instant-on radar when I was going between 5 and 10 mph UNDER the speed limit.

What they saw was a lone motorcycle approaching and figured I was a sitting duck. If what is claimed is true, and if the observing skills are so sharp they would never turn the radar on an approaching vehicle well below the speed limit - but they do it all the time.

Makes a guy wonder about the tales one hears ...

In some jurisdictions, some officers have the motto "To Serve and Collect."

Radar Detector

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