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Alternative fuels

Neiman Marcus has 10 Mission One electric superbikes for sale in its Christmas catalogue.

Neiman-Marcus-Mission-One.jpg
 
ARE we totally NUTS;

We already worry about "brown outs" in our Summer months, with lack of electricty, as we turn our ACs down and cool our homes! Nuclear Energy is the ONLY form of juice we have knowledge of that can manage the output required for a USA on electric cars. Your panels and wind turbines are going to have to carpet half the planet to keep up! Do the math? AND, we've had the tech already for 30+ years to make a vehicle go 100mpg on gas or natural gas! There's NO winning this war with a EPA Gov't and politicians and green orgs all fighting in court rooms over how to solve this. Its never ending! France has one thing right in my recent memory and its their Nuke Power Plants, such an obviuos choice and they have us whooped in that area...Randy...PS; We're never likely to run out of natural resources, like oil as so many on the far left have suggested and Global Warming is a subject of the same minds.
 
Infrastructure is the issue for any of the systems for powering transportation. The concerns for additional demand on power systems are a legitimate one but only look at part of the issue. How and when electric cars/bikes are recharged is another part of the equation.

When: peak v off peak times.
If use and range of electrics can funnel the plug in charging time to off peak hours the additional demand would have little or no impact on a power systems current ability to deliver electricity to the grid. In fact off peak demand could add profit and or lower over all costs of a system by better utilizing currently unutilized capacity.

How electric vehicles are recharged
The standard way that comes to mind is plugging the thing in, but that is not the only way.
- KERS: kinetic energy recovery systems, I hate them in F1 cars, do provide a way of recharging batteries and storing power at other parts of the grid
- Solar: In the case of the BMW C1e the ÔÇÿroofÔÇÖ provides a place to put a solar panel. It would not totally recharge the bike but would be part of an integrated system of recharging.
- Wind at the vehicle level. Harnessing some of the air moving across the surface of a vehicle as it moves and using it to run a turbine that generates power to recharge the batteries or even take over running the motor in part.
- Charging Filling Stations: If battery packs for bikes and cars came in standardized forms then a battery stations could be set up where you would come in and exchange your drained battery pack for a freshly charged one.

Are we totally nuts? Yes, if we donÔÇÖt have intelligent thoughtful discussions of old and new technologies how to use them best as a society or how not to use them.
 
We already worry about "brown outs" in our Summer months, with lack of electricty, as we turn our ACs down and cool our homes! Nuclear Energy is the ONLY form of juice we have knowledge of that can manage the output required for a USA on electric cars. Your panels and wind turbines are going to have to carpet half the planet to keep up! Do the math? AND, we've had the tech already for 30+ years to make a vehicle go 100mpg on gas or natural gas! There's NO winning this war with a EPA Gov't and politicians and green orgs all fighting in court rooms over how to solve this. Its never ending! France has one thing right in my recent memory and its their Nuke Power Plants, such an obviuos choice and they have us whooped in that area...Randy...PS; We're never likely to run out of natural resources, like oil as so many on the far left have suggested and Global Warming is a subject of the same minds.

Polar Bear, Please help me to understand your position with references to support the need for nuclear energy. From what I have read, the easiest source of energy the American public can access is increased efficiency. Various sources, including the Texas Observer has quoted experts indicating that if we increased energy efficiency by 10%, we would need no new plants in the next 10~15 years. When I recently needed a new AC (a necessity in Houston), the incremental cost of increasing efficency from a SEER 14 to SEER 18 was about 20% more money. The energy savings has been dramatic.

Nuclear, on the other had is not cheap, merely subsidized (which means, like the bank bailouts, we end up paying for it in the end, either through increased utility bills or nuclear waste in our backyard). And considering Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, etc and that every plant completed has cost more than 2x budgeted estimates, the fact that we have no permenanent storage or disposal plan for the radioactive waste, and therefore do not know that cost, either I am curious what the basis is for the proposition that this is a reasonable choice. Interesting topic, but I wonder if it is appropriate to the forum?
 
Not sure the innovative power plant really benefits from the extremely stylized look. Thought provoking look though somewhat similar to previous attempts by BMW.

It is an extension of their C1 production model. I am a daily commuter and frankly for 90+% of what I use my Roadster for the original C1 or this C1e could do it just as well or better.

Here are links to a series I posted back in 2006 about the C1

Part I of my series on the BMW C1 began in the Morning Reads: 28 December 2006. Scroll down for the introduction. The following links should take you to the three part follow up covering the original C1.

BWM C1: Part II

BMW C1: Part III

BMW C1: Part IV
 
Not if you are smart enought to purchase wind only energy. :wave And solar is looking like a good addition to our house when I have to re-roof it in 5 years. BTW did I mention earlier that by going from my old 30+ mpg Honda Civic to my 50+ mpg R1200RT I burn over 900 gallons of fuel less a year? :nyah:bikes

900 gallons is a reasonable fuel savings, but not many of us drive the 67,500 miles per year necessary to do so.
 
PS; We're never likely to run out of natural resources, like oil as so many on the far left have suggested

Only in the sense that "never" is after your lifetime. :banghead

But that's OK. We need the short-sighted like you so we can distinguish the visionaries ... :D
 
BMW TV put out this piece you might find interesting.

October 08, 2009
Simple is the acronym for ÔÇ£sustainable and innovative mobility product for low energy consumptionÔÇØ, a vehicle concept combining features and advantages of both motorcars and motorcycles. The concept owes its protective passenger compartment to motorcars whereas the streamline shape, the two occupants seated one behind the other and the uniquely driving experience are naturally owed to motorcycles. Whilst researching ideas for futuristic urban mobility combined with the prerequisite of reduced consumption (less than 2l /100 km eqals less than 120mpg) and emission values (50g CO2 /100 km), the BMW Group spawned this concept vehicle featuring the extremely low weight of 450 kg and aerodynamic drag properties (0,18 drag coefficient), which of course also fulfilled all the BMW Group premium brand demands: sheer driving pleasure, innovative vehicle configuration, technology integration and a sense of comfort and spaciousness.

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Yeah, and the only two wheeler you'll get is a stationary exercise bicycle with a dynamo to power your virtual reality system with option A) you riding an Electra Glide into the sunset of Monument Valley or, B) you riding on an ADV on the Alcan in deep mud chasing grizzlies.

/Guenther
 
And where are the tents where the car owners can stay until their car's battery is charged?

I saw some figures it takes hours to charge an electric car battery after a 50 miles trip.

Let's take an electric car motor with 20 kW (~26 hp) for half an hour trip to the office that needs 10 kWh to charge the battery or, 1,250 Watts over 8 hours. Looking at some of the panels available today you would need a ~100 sqft panel to do that charging in 8 hours (at perfect sunlight).

Or roughly 6 panel insets shown on the Dell picture. So one of the large "roof" panels would charge 10 cars. As many as would fit under that "roof". All using a moderate size motor and perfect daylight.

Sounds technically feasible (if I haven't made one of these stupid calculation errors/assumptions). Might even work well where Dell's HQ is.

/Guenther
 
Be sure to read this nice article in Technology Review about the first non-emissions FIM-sponsored (read "electric") motorcycle race at the Isle of Man TT this year:

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23172/

The winners were Team Agni, a couple of privateers from the UK and India. Their patented "pancake" motor will be available on (rather expensive) production bikes next year.


Electric vehicles are "remote emission" vehicles not non emission. As pointed pointed out above the electicity to charge them comes from somewhere and then you have the whole battery production and disposal issue. Many do not seem to look at the entire picture. Another example would be the CFL lamps, they contain mercury and to make them acceptable to consumers the price had to come down so many of the cheaper models are built with tranformers that disrupt the power curve. If another lamp type is not developed or more efficient transformers are not used the power suppliers will be required to spend millions to correct the power quality issues. Guess who will pay for that.
 
In a recent Popular Mechanics article they stated that the automobile (motorcycle) consumption of petro fuel is about 1% when compared to other consumers. The highest levels of consumption are by electoplants and oil used in home heating/industry heating. Here in PA. we are sitting on huge supplies on natural gas that the powers to be are "paying" gas companies to "stop finding"!

At this point I'm not willing to fly in any plane that operates on anything other than aviation fuel and I will continue to heat my home with clean natural gas and ride my RT to and from the office.

It appears to me that often the most "green" are often the highest consumers!:stick
 
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