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Alternative fuels

LCBIKEMAN

New member
Anyone have experience with alternative fuels of any sort? I wonder about engine performance, engines altered to burn the fuels, etc. Wondered at anyone's experimentation or home-built? Has BMW tested a Hydrogen powered motorcycle engine?
 
The guvmint is currently making you use an alternate fuel, i.e. a 10% ethanol blend. Want more?
 
The guvmint is currently making you use an alternate fuel, i.e. a 10% ethanol blend. Want more?

Frankly yes, I see KTM & Honda working with electric bikes in racing. I'd love to see our boys & girls do that. One of the biggest reasons why I'm on a bike is so that I reduce my 'addiction' to oil.
 
This month's issue of Motorcyclist was all about "green" bikes, from alternative fuels to fully electric.
Also of interest:
The US Marine Corps has been using diesel (or JP-8) powered Kawasaki KLR 650's for a couple years now.
 
Be sure to read this nice article in Technology Review about the first non-emissions FIM-sponsored (read "electric") motorcycle race at the Isle of Man TT this year:

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23172/

The winners were Team Agni, a couple of privateers from the UK and India. Their patented "pancake" motor will be available on (rather expensive) production bikes next year.
 
This month's issue of Motorcyclist was all about "green" bikes, from alternative fuels to fully electric.
Also of interest:
The US Marine Corps has been using diesel (or JP-8) powered Kawasaki KLR 650's for a couple years now.

Now that would be fun! Of course one big advantage for them is to streamline their supply chain. A very good idea!
 
DUH !!! Electricity is made from burning oil, coal or natural gas.

Batteries are made from a product mined in Canada using diesel fuel powered equipment, processed in the US (with electricity), shiped to China in a boat powered by diesel or crude oil, assembled in Japan using more electicity, then shipped back to the US--see ship power above, then distributed in a truck powered by diesel.

Get real folks....

The carbon footprint of a Prius is significantly higher than a Hummer, and a lot harder to recycle once it dies.
 
Tom,

that is my understanding as well. Fuel cells and hydrogen produced with renewable energy - maybe someday. But not for motorcycles. The end of fossile fuel could mean the end of riding a motorcycle. So, Y"ALL ENJOY IT NOW!

Occassionally I see Matt Parkhouse flizzing around in town on his electric powered BMW tricycle (as well as his electric powered VW Microbus). It can be done, but it would be tough to make it to a BMW rally...recharging every 30 miles.

Oh, and there is this guy from Wyoming who show up on rallies now-and-then on a diesel powered Enfield built in India. Goes 130 mpg, max 60 mph. The company in Indian stopped building the diesel version a couple of years ago.

A diesel powered GS from BMW? I think I would buy this in an iffy.

/Guenther
 
DUH !!! Electricity is made from burning oil, coal or natural gas.

In a dying, fossil-fuel-driven society, yes. But not in the future. Part of the solution is to get our transportation infrastructure off of fossil fuels as WELL as our electricity generation. There are many parts of the solution, the problem is massive.

I personally believe that nuclear fusion is the only long-term solution to clean electricity production, combined with, of course, the electrified rail, personal transportation, home energy use, and other energy infrastructure changes that need to be made to get us off of fossil fuels. In the meantime, I'd sure like to see nuclear fission brought back -- modern fission plants are way safer and more well-made than the old designs we used to use. Europe has moved so far ahead in nuclear fission over the intervening years.

Electric motorcycles are a tiny, but highly visible, start. They can be a cute poster child for electric vehicles. They don't solve any significant problems. Those are much, much bigger problems, the largest humans have ever faced.

And regarding the environmental footprint of batteries - yes, a serious drawback, right now. But we're still very early in development. It's a huge mistake to evaluate the whole Big Project simply in terms of what's been achieved to date.

We have barely even begun.
 
I love nukes, we have a nuke powered power plant in our backyard. The only drawback is the biased press and the vocal anti-nuke crowd. Anytime there is a problem, no matter how small, the local news morons go out and take pictures of the cooling towers and recite the Chicken Little anthem.
 
DUH !!! Electricity is made from burning oil, coal or natural gas.

Not if you are smart enought to purchase wind only energy. :wave And solar is looking like a good addition to our house when I have to re-roof it in 5 years. BTW did I mention earlier that by going from my old 30+ mpg Honda Civic to my 50+ mpg R1200RT I burn over 900 gallons of fuel less a year? :nyah:bikes
 
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DUH !!! Electricity is made from burning oil, coal or natural gas.

Batteries are made from a product mined in Canada using diesel fuel powered equipment, processed in the US (with electricity), shiped to China in a boat powered by diesel or crude oil, assembled in Japan using more electicity, then shipped back to the US--see ship power above, then distributed in a truck powered by diesel.

Get real folks....

The carbon footprint of a Prius is significantly higher than a Hummer, and a lot harder to recycle once it dies.

Hum, Tom I feel compelled to correct this often quoted and very incorrect statement regarding carbon footprints. The statement that is correctly quoted is that the Prius requires considerable energy to produce. The comparison is generally left to the uninformed to draw the incorrect comparison to other vehicles.

But if you feel compelled in your believe to misstate facts, please quote your sources.

My source for the statement that the Prius has the smallest carbon footprint of any passenger car is from http://missionzero.org/categories/1...ow-Carbon-Footprint-Cars-and-one-SUV-for-2009
 
gregfuess,

the website you mentioned talks about the carbon footprint of the vehicle in operation and not about the enviromental impact of building and "disposing" the vehicle. Given all the extra electronic stuff in a hybrid and the battery on top I think a Hummer - overall - could still be "greener".

TomBarnhart,

ah, and about that nuclear power plant. If you like it in your backyard you sure like to have the spent fuel rods sitting there as well to give you a bright shining face for hundreds of years to come.

Iceland - before it financially collapsed - had plans to be oil independent by 2023(?). The idea was to use their geothermal resources plus the abandons of water to produce electricity with steam driven turbines. Use the electricity to make hydrogen and use it in fuel cells to power electric cars. They had it all nicely laid out and calculated until the country financially imploded over a year ago.

A nice report on the discovery(?) channel showed that if we plaster 10% of Nevada with solar panels it would produce all the electricity we generate by fossil fuels in the US today. So theoretically that might be feasible. Only some "minor" (haha) issues like 24 our availability and transportation of the electrons need to be resolved.

Btw. I don't believe any car can be "green". Greener, yeah. Only a horse drawn buggy comes close to be really "green".

...my view on things.

/Guenther
 
Rumors have started surfacing that BMW will introduce a hybrid concept at the Milan show early next year. moto-station.com translated: BMW ÔÇô Soon a two wheel hybrid?

In the cage world they have begun to emphasize diesels more in the BMW line but have always ruled that out for bikes in the past. They have been working on hydrogen in the 7 series. The weight of the gas tanks always seemed to be a deterrent to a motorcycle application in my mind. MINI has been where BMW has pushed electric vehicles and has brought an e-MINI to the street. They could go either way with a bike concept but I would guess electric of some sort.
 
FWIW,
The charge that a Prius is more polluting than a traditional vehicle hinges largely on the amount of pollution produced in the manufacturing of the batteries - specifically the mining of the nickel used in the batteries. That amount of pollution isn't fixed and has, by most accounts, dropped dramatically in recent years.

But then amongst our two cars is a beater of a Honda Civic. Nearly 40 mpg, if I remember to keep the tires inflated. :D
 
Not only is the focus on the nickel used in the battery, but the focus is from a consultants blog, supported by absolutely no data. The data on the carbon footprints for cars evaluated on an equal and stated basis is for the Prius, Insight, etc.

So who does the blogger with the big ideas and no data work for? Yup, API and GM.
 
Timely and hot off the press from BMW PressClub -

BMW Motorrad study for urban traffic. BMW C1-E: concept for a higher level of safety in the city.
• 06.10.2009
• Press Release
Munich. This is what a safe, environment-friendly and highly practical single track vehicle for city traffic could look like in the future. BMW Motorrad developed the C1-E study as a contribution to the European safety project eSUM. This study unit is based on the concept of the BMW C1. It is characterized by a very high level of active and passive safety and is driven by an electric motor.

The BMW C1-E provides exemplary protection for its rider. This is ensured by the safety cell with the conspicuous roll-over bar which dynamically spans the rider seat in combination with the energy-absorbing impact element at the nose end. A further special point is that the C1-E rider wears a seat-belt. In the study this safety feature is highlighted by red belts and belt buckles.

Visually the concept vehicle expresses brand typical sheer driving pleasure and clearly distinguishes itself from typical scooter looks. Its lines are dynamically stretched and flow horizontally with a low visual centre of gravity. The fairing with its windscreen, the luggage space behind the rider and the side stand for effortless parking ensure high suitability for everyday riding combined with a high degree of wind and weather protection.

The electric motor employed in the study has been designed for city use and is based on components by the company Vectrix. The motor obtains its power from a lithium-ion battery and thus possesses sufficient power for mastering most inner-city traffic riding with ease. Alternatively the vehicle could also be equipped with an efficient, low-emissions internal combustion engine.

The safety features of the C1-E have been taken from the former BMW C1 and further enhanced. BMW's avant-garde two-wheeler is regarded as a milestone in safety on two wheels. It is the only motorised single-track vehicle to be exempt from mandatory helmet wearing in almost all European countries.

This BMW Motorrad study is to remain the only model of its kind. Series production is currently not planned. Nevertheless, findings from the project will find their way into other future developments in the field of single-track vehicles.

eSUM stands for European Safer Urban Motorcycling. It is a cooperation project between major urban European motorcycling centres and motorcycle manufacturers. The cities currently involved in the project include Paris, Rome, Barcelona and London and the manufacturers are BMW and Piaggio.

The advantage of two-wheeled transportation is that it offers a great opportunity for improving the flow of traffic in urban locations. Moreover, it is environmentally friendly and lends itself to individualisation. However, the vast majority of accidents occur in urban traffic, in areas where 80 percent of the population live. The idea behind eSum is to look into ways of countering this trend. The joint goal is the identification, development, and practical demonstration of measures which are able to guarantee safe motorcycle and motor-scooter transport in the inner-city traffic of the future.

One of BMW Motorrad's major concerns over the last twenty years has been the improvement of motorcycle safety. This was amply demonstrated by the consistent strategy which has led to the Motorrad ABS and continued with its long-term ongoing development. Only a few weeks ago, on August 31, the 1,000,000th BMW motorcycle with Integral ABS, a BMW K 1300 R, left the production line in Berlin-Spandau.

Since 2005, a series of further active safety features have been developed to enhance the safety BMW motorcycles still further: RDC Tyre Pressure Control, ASC Anti-Slip Control, the new Race ABS and the DTC Traction Control incorporated in the new BMW S 1000 RR, not to mention the innovative range of BMW Motorrad rider equipment.

Over and above this, BMW Motorrad is also conducting research into forward-looking rider assistance systems designed to increased road safety, as part of the ConnectedRide project. Features being looked at include cross-traffic and traffic-light assistance as well as a warning system for impending poor weather, road obstacles, an approaching emergency vehicle, or sudden braking manoeuvres.

672142947_qnVbj-S.jpg

Gallery

hellforleathermagzine.com has an article on the BMW C1e

BMW_C1-E_1-thumb-415x286-6293.jpg


The C1e is currently powered by a motor/battery combination from Vectrix. Vectrix produces electric scooters and was the first to come out with a viable electric superbike. Vectix also is a prime example of the real problem of going green with electric bikes or cars; the problem is not is the technology or production cycle green or not that will happen over time, the real problem is they are not gr$$n! Vectix is on the verge of bankruptcy.
 
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Not sure the innovative power plant really benefits from the extremely stylized look. Thought provoking look though somewhat similar to previous attempts by BMW.
 
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