Tires

Would anyone like to comment on the tube vs tubeless tire designs for Airheads? I need new skins on the RT. Avon Road Riders, Kendas, etc., all seem to be designed for tubeless applications. Which leaves me with the Dunlop 404's. Any suggestions, comments are appreciated.

The wheels on your 83 are not designed for tubeless tires- not recommended at all!

not entirely true

beemerPhil said:

The wheels on your 83 are not designed for tubeless tires- not recommended at all!

Click to expand...

not entirely true ...

No 1983 (corrected) Type-247 WHEEL is designed for tubeless use. TRUE THAT !

However, most tubeless tires ARE designed to, and can be used WITH a tube,
and any of these that fits your rims MAY be a viable option.

Re-phrased: I'd like to put Avon Road Riders on my 1983 R100RT. The clerk stated that ARR's are a tubeless designed tire and manufacturers of tubeless tires do not recommend putting tubes in them. You can imagine my surprise since virtually all the tires I've seen discussed in the many forums have tubes placed in tubeless designed tires unless there is something I've been missing. Hence the thread and the query. Can I safely run an Avon Road Rider with a tube in it on my stock snowflake rims in your opinion?

i have Avon Road Riders on two of my Airheads - with tubes. No problems. they work quite well.
They may be discouraging the tubes, as it is more work for them if you are doing a free or flat rate mounting at that shop, since it is more work for them.
When i get overquestioned about putting tubes in mine, I tell them just do it.

jforgo said:

i have Avon Road Riders on two of my Airheads - with tubes. No problems. they work quite well.
They may be discouraging the tubes, as it is more work for them if you are doing a free or flat rate mounting at that shop, since it is more work for them.
When i get overquestioned about putting tubes in mine, I tell them just do it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments. That puts my mind a bit more at ease. How do they handle in the rain?

seniorasi said:

Thanks for the comments. That puts my mind a bit more at ease. How do they handle in the rain?

Click to expand...

better than Kenda's or Bridgestones, IMHO

+1 to Vanzen above- semantics, maybe, but all the "tubeless" tires I've ever seen can be used with a tube also, at least within normal street-use conditions. What I meant to say in my earlier post was that no wheels that ever came on an '83 airhead were safe to use without tubes.

A dealer would advise following the mfg's recommendations as a natural reflex- his liability coverage is expensive enough already!

I have heard the inner surfacing of tubeless tires wasn't designed to be nice to tubes, but I have no idea if this is true since I've not mounted tires since everything went tubeless and I no longer know what the inside of a tire looks like

The Avon Road Riders can be used with tubes, or tubeless. They come new on Triumph Bonnevilles that use tubes. No problemo with them. There ARE some big fat radials with weird ribs on the inside and you probably could not use them with tubes, but there probably are no tube type OEM bikes that could fit them. You have absolutely no problem with Avon Road Riders and tubes.

Post from another forum

Tim,

During my pre-flight check this morning I noticed some instructions molded
into my Avon Roadriders that I've never noticed before. Right under the word
"Tubeless" on the sidewall, is the phrase "If Fitted to a Tube Type Rim Fit
A Tube"

Darrin
Jacksonville FL
'77 RS, wire wheels


Avon Road Riders are definitely in my future. Many thanks to those who contributed opinions and comments. I appreciate the effort and information.

semantics

beemerPhil said:

... all the "tubeless" tires I've ever seen can be used with a tube also, at least within normal street-use conditions ... no wheels that ever came on an '83 airhead were safe to use without tubes ...

Click to expand...

Yes, just semantics, and sorry for nit-picking ...
I've read many of your postings, beemerPhil, and know that you understand the situation.

IF the words:
"If Fitted to a Tube Type Rim Fit A Tube"
are, in fact, on the sidewall ÔÇô
get the tires on the rims, give 'em a good balance ... and commence to wear them out !
That clerk is feeding you a line of ... ignorance or laziness.

Typically, when using a tube in a tubeless design tire
it is recd. to downgrade the speed rating by 1 letter.
i.e. if it says "H" (130 mph) on the sidewall,
consider "U"(124 mph) as the performance maximum with a tube.
(as a function of the increased HEAT that a tube will generate)

If not mistaken, there are radial tubeless tires on the market now
that are NOT intended for use with a tube
typically, these will not be available in sizes to fit the old "tube-type" Type-247s.

If you ever expect to do a roadside patch or tube replacement never use a
tubless tire on a tube wheel - near impossible to lever off and reset bead
with hand levers and ordinary muscle.

If you are not concerned about a ride in a pickup bed to the shop for a
simple nail or cardboard staple flat then go ahead with your tubless tire.

Do they even MAKE tube-only tires anymore? I've certainly not seen one lately.

We have 12 M/C wheels in our garage, and only three of those take tubeless tires W/O tubes. Wouldn't even occur to me to look for a "tube" tire for any of the others. You buy a good tire, you put in a good new tube (or valve) and rim strap. Balance and go. Next bike...!

keelerb said:

Do they even MAKE tube-only tires anymore? I've certainly not seen one lately.

We have 12 M/C wheels in our garage, and only three of those take tubeless tires W/O tubes. Wouldn't even occur to me to look for a "tube" tire for any of the others. You buy a good tire, you put in a good new tube (or valve) and rim strap. Balance and go. Next bike...!

Click to expand...

Dunlop 404's fall into the tube only category and believe they are still available. I have heard wonderful things about the Road Riders and am going to try them.

44006 said:

If you ever expect to do a roadside patch or tube replacement never use a
tubless tire on a tube wheel - near impossible to lever off and reset bead
with hand levers and ordinary muscle.

If you are not concerned about a ride in a pickup bed to the shop for a
simple nail or cardboard staple flat then go ahead with your tubless tire.

Click to expand...

Where there is will there is a way! A small c-clamp in the bags... If all else fails use the center stand and the weight of the bike -CAREFULLY- to break the bead.

tire changes

44006 said:

If you ever expect to do a roadside patch or tube replacement never use a
tubless tire on a tube wheel - near impossible to lever off and reset bead
with hand levers and ordinary muscle...

Click to expand...

I change, repair, and balance all my tires here at home by hand
using 2 tire irons as found in an air-head underseat tool kit
and 2 longer irons I keep in the garage.
The last was a tubeless / low profile / radial 180/55-ZR17
(plenty of tire lube & a packing strap cinched tight around the perimeter of the tubeless tire
aids in getting the bead to seat with the low volume of my compressor)

I have removed and replaced tubeless tires on air-heads
on the road using just the 2 irons from the tool kit.

not saying it is "fun to do"
but it sure can be done
and I am not a "big" guy either at 55 years & 170#.

vanzen said:

No Type-247 WHEEL is designed for tubeless use. TRUE THAT !

Click to expand...

I must be misunderstanding you. What are you considering type 247 wheels?

correction

AntonLargiader said:

I must be misunderstanding you. What are you considering type 247 wheels?

Click to expand...

Type-247 refers to the 'air-head' engine designation as introduced with the /5 series
and used till the end of production.
I tend use the term rather too "generically" as it does not technically include the R65, and perhaps the R45 (? Type-246)


To clarify,

My statement, 'No Type-247 WHEEL is designed for tubeless use', IS FALSE.

Correct to say:
As concerns the "Type-247 / air-head":
The snowflake cast wheels as fitted to the Type-247 are designed to be used with tubes.
The Y-spoke cast wheels as used since 1984 (?) are stamped "MT" and suitable for use with or without tubes.
The spoked wheels used prior to the introduction of the "BMW patented tubeless design" are intended to be used with tubes.
Tubeless spoked wheels (MT H2 D) as used on the R100R, R80R, and some GS models
are easily identified by the spokes extending from the hub to the outer edges of the wheel rim.
Spoked wheels requiring tubes will have spokes that enter the center of the wheel rim.
Some Lester and Morris cast after-market wheels intended for the BMW were designed for tubeless operation, but not all.

If in doubt, the required DOT information is clearly stamped on the wheel:
CP and the WM are for use with tubes.
MT and MTH2, suitable for tubes or no tubes.

Tubeless design tires that can be used with tubes
will have "on tube type rims fit tube" clearly marked on the side-wall.

(thanks, anton, I needed that)

Wow, that's pretty comprehensive!

I'm always a bit surprised that Lesters were rated as tubeless, since they have no obvious safety bead. Maybe that wasn't a requirement.

<minutiae>
The way I understand it, /5 was 246 and R45/65 was 248. R65s are thusly stamped.
</minutiae>