Buying 1st BMW

I am looking to buy an R1200R. How important/desireable are the ASC and ESA features?

Thanks,

Alan

Looking to buy 1st BMW

I am looking to buy an R1200R. How important/desireable are the ASC and ESA features?

Thanks,

Alan

ESA is a convinience feature allowing you to adjust the suspension on the fly - not mandatory but when I got the GT I made sure to get it. You will find two camps on this the ones who like and the ones who don't. Regarding the ASC, more of an actual safety thing so to prevent the rear wheel breaking loose. I think it is a great thing, did not have it or my RT. Again not critical to have but not bad if you do. BTW nice selection of bike, I road one and it was a blast.

I think "desirable" kinda depends on your intended usage. ASC is essentially the inverse of ABS. It controls loss of traction as a result of applying excessive power (e.g. a "burnout"), as opposed to from applying too much brake. (If your tires are getting bald or you often find yourself in an inadvertent wheelie from taking off so fast, then ASC's for you!) But seriously, I think it's just a call about whether you want to spend a couple hundred more bucks for an incremental safety feature, but realistically, it will likely see less real-world activation than ABS.

ESA: Some love it, some hate it. I fall in the "like it" category. If you don't like the suspension behavior you get from its 3 choices of preload and its 3 choices of damping settings, then get the standard shocks and at least you can replace them with something like Wilbers or Ohlins shocks without feeling like you wasted the money. Once you've got ESA, it'd be money in the wastebin to remove it. In my case, I appreciate being able to change preload and ride handling from the button and I like the way the RT handles as a result. Your mileage may vary.

I have a new 2009 R1200R. I have the ABS,ASC and TPS (it came as a package from my dealer that way- Canada) I did not find the need for the ESA because I do not find the need to adjust the suspension that often...That feature was not important to me. There is an R1200R specific forum on the internet that you may want to check out. Lots of knowledge there...
http://www.r1150r.org

I have an '09 GSA with ESA. Most of the time, I leave it on a single setting. But when traveling, with the panniers loaded down, it is nice to just push a button and have the shocks adjust themselves.

Thanks for the feedback. The local dealers don't have a bike with ASC. They do have one with ESC.

The incentives are too good to wait for a 2010. I guess I will have to give up the ASC option.

Thanks for the feedback.

Alan

Thanks for the feedback. The local dealers don't have a bike with ASC. They do have one with ESC.

The incentives are too good to wait for a 2010. I guess I will have to give up the ASC option.

Thanks for the feedback.

Alan

Don't forget to post a picture of the ride you get....

Semper_Fi said:

Don't forget to post a picture of the ride you get....

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+1

As I mentioned to you in reply to your posting on the R12R specific forum..

I could easily live without ESC - in fact - I'd consider it an undesirable option (one that will cost more money as the bike gets older).. but ASC and TPM to me - if buying today - would not be optional - they would be mandatory.

I know too many people who've lowsided their bike in situations where ASC would have prevented it. And I've had enough flats that a TPM would be an awfully nice thing to have.

I'd suggest you don't compromise - order what you actually want. BMW does a catch-22 sort of thing where they equip the bikes with certain options, claiming the other options "never sell" - the reason they "never sell" is BMW never makes any bikes for the dealer's showrooms that HAVE the options on them.

Somehow the marketing people have made this self-fulfilling prediction sound like wisdom of the ages, not realizing how just plain STUPID it is. If the dealer doesn't have a bike with the options you WANT - he's going to try to sell you the bike he HAS. And BMW is going to have to cheapen the deal with options/rebates/packages to move the bike off the floor.

Dumb.

Have the sales manager (if the salesman claims he doesn't know how..) look on the BMW database and see if any bikes are in the country equipped how YOU want them (not how BMW wanted to sell them.) Then demand that bike. If the dealer doesn't want to - find another dealer.

Great suggestion. The dealer checked the stock on BMW's system and the only bikes that have the ASC and TPM are lowered suspensions (too short for me)

Swapping the suspension is about 30 minutes to do.. all they need is a normal height one to get the suspension from (or I could swap the spare suspension I have for the lowered.. mine has about 3,000 miles on it..)

asc

One for no ASC or equivalent on anything with wheels. Hate every one of these on any vehicle I've ever tried with it.

There are times when I deliberately apply enough power to use some wheelspin to help accomplish a direction change. Don't want or need some damn computer thinking its better qualified than I am to judge whether that is appropriate because computer interference always slows down the intended action. Never seen a reason I'd want ASC and I've lived most of my life in snow and ice country, though not now. Maybe old fashioned but to my way of thinking, if someone can't control what their right hand is doing, they ought to re evaluate whether they have any business owning a 100+ hp motorcycle.

BMW motorcycle ABS is OK - seems to be relatively non invasive and only does unwanted/uneeded triggers once in a rare while. (I've had my front do it in moderately hard straight line braking over a paint stripe where ABS is clearly not needed, possibly because factory rear wheel brake bias is on the light side and unless one is on the rear pedal a bunch, the back end does almost nothing).

racer7 said:

Maybe old fashioned but to my way of thinking, if someone can't control what their right hand is doing, they ought to re evaluate whether they have any business owning a 100+ hp motorcycle.

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You might mention that to the racing teams of Ducati, BMW and Yamaha. The race bikes with considerably more than 100HP seem to be using it.

And I'd guess most of us simply aren't as skilled as you are.. I still would like to have it, but I've only been riding about 35 years now..

racer7 said:

One for no ASC or equivalent on anything with wheels. Hate every one of these on any vehicle I've ever tried with it.

........ Maybe old fashioned but to my way of thinking, if someone can't control what their right hand is doing, they ought to re evaluate whether they have any business owning a 100+ hp motorcycle.

Click to expand...

The other day I was getting on the highway and i just yanked the throttle wide open in 3rd on my GT, not only did the ASC keep the front end down but I was able to control the bike thru the gears as I was winding her back down.

YMMV - I for one love ASC and the ABS is fantastic on the bikes.

Had the ASC and TPM on my 07GSA. Loved the TPM and was learning the ASC..only complaint was during a "get the heck up to speed" maneuver due to faster than anticipated traffic, the bike cut out in second gear and caught my attention. I learned the shifting points on that bike with that option were diff from my others. I see it has it's place and would ride with it again.
The TPM is great, wish my 09GSA had it but it does have ESA that I have not had until recently and now on the K12S as well. Being able to tweak the suspension easily is pretty cool. Some say too much technology...I say give it a try.

racer7 said:

One for no ASC or equivalent on anything with wheels. Hate every one of these on any vehicle I've ever tried with it.

There are times when I deliberately apply enough power to use some wheelspin to help accomplish a direction change. Don't want or need some damn computer thinking its better qualified than I am to judge whether that is appropriate because computer interference always slows down the intended action. Never seen a reason I'd want ASC and I've lived most of my life in snow and ice country, though not now. Maybe old fashioned but to my way of thinking, if someone can't control what their right hand is doing, they ought to re evaluate whether they have any business owning a 100+ hp motorcycle.

BMW motorcycle ABS is OK - seems to be relatively non invasive and only does unwanted/uneeded triggers once in a rare while. (I've had my front do it in moderately hard straight line braking over a paint stripe where ABS is clearly not needed, possibly because factory rear wheel brake bias is on the light side and unless one is on the rear pedal a bunch, the back end does almost nothing).

Click to expand...

Sounds remarkably like the rants I read on the Corvette sites against the Active Handling and Traction Control systems -- usually followed within the year by a spin/slide into something solid.

You may be a gifted rider but I'd suggest that rather than universally condemning driver aids like the ASC system to all be crap, either (i) don't purchase the option, or (ii) press the switch on the handlebar to turn it off. But don't go ranting on like it's a waste of electronics or a massively intrusive system. As a first matter, you apparently haven't sampled it, as it's actually not intrusive, unless it's really needed. Second, by throwing out this rant, you may unfortunately cause someone who really needs it due to their inexperience to shy away from something that might just save their tail. Surprise! Not all riders begin their careers already knowing exactly where the edge of the envelope is -- did you?

I recognize that *you* don't like driver aids -- and I'll be the first to say you are entitled to your opinion as to what does/does not work for *you* -- but a blanket dump on driver aids is clearly unwarranteed.

And BTW, whether a bike has +100 HP is irrelevant -- you can inadvertantly spin the rear wheel with <20 HP, given a slick surface. By your standard, no one should be able to even start riding, as no one, before they get some riding time under their belt, will have the experience it takes to handle even a 20 HP bike.

Counter rant <off>

ESA is convenient and convenience comes at a cost. I don't mind paying that cost for the ESA. ABS is not only convenient but for a rational rider it provides an extra level of safety in being able to stop more efficiently. For the rest of us ABS just expands the envelope. I feel the jury is still out on the traction control as I've never experienced it.

Thank you all for your feedback. I found a great deal on a 2009 R1200R.

Pick it up next week.