Rants, Issues and Soccer Moms,

Hate to say this, but I think it really needs to be said.

A lot of those people that you are all describing in some other threads, probably feel that it is their inalienable right to drive as poorly as they see fit. I think someone somewhere mentioned that it is a right granted in the US Constitution. And if the Government were to crack down on this, it would be a Socialist movement which they do not want in the USA. And nobody wants the Government to control anything in their lives. You should be able to talk on your cell phone, text message on another one, swerve all over the road with total disregard for any other human beings that may be trying to share that road. If someone gets in your way, well, too bad for them. After all, it is your right to do whatever you want.

Maybe what I am saying is, it is obvious that people do not follow the rules of common sense, so maybe it is time somebody started mandating some common sense. i.e. make and enforce laws to the maximum about how people drive. If they screw up, take their licence away. If they screw up while driving under suspension then put them in jail. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Oh yeah, forgot, that may infringe on their rights. B.S.
I guess some would rather not infringe on anyones rights, and let the carnage continue on the highways of America. I guess that is a form of Darwinism. Only the biggest, baddest, SUV will survive. If I find the roads where I drive to be like that, I am getting me a tank.

Common sense is an oxymoron.

Common Sense - Definition:
Common sense (or, when used attributively as an adjective, commonsense, common-sense, or commonsensical), based on a strict construction of the term, consists of what people in common would agree on: that which they "sense" as their common natural understanding. Some people (such as the authors of Merriam-Webster Online) use the phrase to refer to beliefs or propositions that ÔÇö in their opinion ÔÇö most people would consider prudent and of sound judgment, without reliance on esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what they see as knowledge held by people "in common". Thus "common sense" (in this view) equates to the knowledge and experience which most people allegedly have, or which the person using the term believes that they do or should have.

There fore I can only assume that your reference is more in line to William F. Buckley's usage of the language. Which was to provide a slightly humerous style to the usage of some terms.

Well, dispite the popular belief, driving/riding is not a right, but a privilege. And like a lot of privileges, it gets abused a lot and not taken away as often as it should. (Not that it matters, bad drivers still drive, even without a lic.)

But the reality is, the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on bone-head, inconsiderate drivers. We may seem to have more than our share, but you may want to look at the Passing on two lane interstates post that proceeds this one. I've seen my share of Canadian. Mexican and U.S. plated cars, which had drivers who should be passengers instead. Not to mention the yearly southern migration of Canadian "snowbirds" who invade the southwest every winter. The majority are really great people, but some are real boneheads too.

The the truth is, most drivers/riders, do a good job. But it's the idiots/morons and "soccer moms" that we remember.

You want frustration? Try riding a SoCal freeway during the "rush hour" sometime. You'll see driving/riding at it's best & worst.

Venting does help, a nice ride on a empty road helps even more...

And something that would help even more. Get heavily involved with local politicians to convince them to impose proper penalties for the bad behaviour on the road. i.e. mandate cell phones cannot be used while driving and impose humongous fines and penalties if caught doing so. Make it so that the police must to enforce it and that judges must impose the heavy penalties.

I know, there will be people stating that the police should be out catching rapists, bank robbers, etc. instead of worring about catching the odd cell phone abuser or bad driver. Well, on average, how many people get killed each year in bank robberies vs. how many die on the roads due to bad driving behaviour? Pretty simple math.

Yes, this is a problem all over North America as well as all over the world. The point I was trying to make was the issue about "God given rights" that is always brought up whenever someone brings up ways to fix some of these types of problems.

Right to judge absurdity

I have the RIGHT to feel this thread is funny to the point of absurdity.

Rights smites, as in a thread up in the forum threads. It has nothing to do with rights ( at least it shouldnt) it has to do with courtesy and safety.

I rode in today with total idiots who cared not to the right and left of me. I think I need a trash bike like an old Goldwing to commute to work instead of subjecting the GS to possible harm and riding in the death march of the freeway.

The locals who scream about their rights have yet to chime in on this thread, or are just ingoring it. Maybe they have finally come to realize that they cannot justify their Rights issues on this one.

Will wait and see.

Hey all; Operating a motor vehicle is, as mentioned earlier, a privilege, not a right. Her in Michigan, we see all the time third offence DUI's being let go with a simple fine and licence suspension. These folks are still going to drive, whether they have a licence or not. Perhaps we need some European type laws where a first offence DUI will get your licence revoked, not just suspended, and you vehicle impounded? I have always preached against "big brother", but we are talking about people who have (it would appear) a lack of ANY common sense!! Vaya con Dios, Dutch

I agree with you 100%.
Unfortunately many will disagree with us on this. Unfortunate, but true.

I have learned that common sense is not very common

As a retired Police Officer, a DUI offense is one of my pet peeves. I made it a point to make it THE MOST unpleasurable experience the driver has. They are handcuffed, placed in the backseat of my car which is caged, their license yanked on the spot, issued several citations, their car towed and they go straight to jail. All in hopes of deterring this person from doing it again, ever. Unfortunately for too many, it's not deterrence enough.

One bright note. One day I was dispatched back to the station to contact a citizen who wanted to see me. Upon talking to him, I learned that I had arrested him for DUI several months back. I didn't remember him but he thanked me for doing it. He said that the arrest made him realize he had reached rock bottom in his life as he was also about to lose his family and his job. Because of the arrest, he went to alcohol rehab, joined AA, got the full support of his family who stayed with him, kept his job and his life is back on track. I was really taken aback by what he had told me that all I could say was "you're welcome".

shire2000 said:

Get heavily involved with local politicians to convince them to impose proper penalties for the bad behaviour on the road. i.e. mandate cell phones cannot be used while driving and impose humongous fines and penalties if caught doing so.

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I don't know about your local politicos...but ours are supportive of phone users and phone companies lobbyists and are some of the worst culprits as well. They passed a watered down " No use in School zones" this past session...weak.

I was behind a mini van at a yield, waiting, waiting, as she seemed to not understand that a yield sign means you may go when safe, as they never turn green, finally she goes and as I pass her I see she is texting as she drives with her knee, about 15 mph in a 35. At the next stop light I pull up beside her, roll down my passenger window and yell "put down the phone and drive!". She responds that her transmission is broken and the van only does 50..............I'm thinking, you only have to be doing 20 to kill someone, but I couldn't seem to get it out without wanting to jump out the window and strangle her so I continued on my way. Doesn't anyone listen to the news or read the paper anymore? Study after study has shown how dangerous it is to talk on the phone, much less text, when will people wake up?

Texting at 15 mph in a 45 mph zone.

Quote by John 1691: {I was behind a mini van at a yield, waiting, waiting, as she seemed to not understand that a yield sign means you may go when safe, as they never turn green, finally she goes and as I pass her I see she is texting as she drives with her knee, about 15 mph in a 35.}

I have seen this more and more frequently of late. Witnessed almost exactly the same senario, except the young female driver was doing 15 in a 45 mph speed limit zone. Amazing, to watch as she wobbled around often passing into the ajacent lane and nearly into the oncoming lane at times. Sooner or later she will cause an accident, or, a death(s). Her's being one of them.

shire2000 said:

Common Sense - Definition:
Common sense (or, when used attributively as an adjective, commonsense, common-sense, or commonsensical), based on a strict construction of the term, consists of what people in common would agree on: that which they "sense" as their common natural understanding. Some people (such as the authors of Merriam-Webster Online) use the phrase to refer to beliefs or propositions that ÔÇö in their opinion ÔÇö most people would consider prudent and of sound judgment, without reliance on esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what they see as knowledge held by people "in common". Thus "common sense" (in this view) equates to the knowledge and experience which most people allegedly have, or which the person using the term believes that they do or should have.

There fore I can only assume that your reference is more in line to William F. Buckley's usage of the language. Which was to provide a slightly humerous style to the usage of some terms.

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These days then the 'right/common' thing to do would be text on your cell phone while you put on your makeup/light a cigarette and ignore that 2-wheeled 'clunk' you just thought you heard maybe, over the blasting boom-boxy-thing that's rattling your trunk lid....

"It's the end of the world, as we know it...."....

When I asked my 23 yr old secretary if she texted while driving, her response was yes, and if asked if that distracted that from driving her saturn car, she informed me she only uses her right hand to text...huh?

shire2000 said:

And something that would help even more. Get heavily involved with local politicians to convince them to impose proper penalties for the bad behavior on the road. i.e. mandate cell phones cannot be used while driving and impose humongous fines and penalties if caught doing so. Make it so that the police must to enforce it and that judges must impose the heavy penalties.

I know, there will be people stating that the police should be out catching rapists, bank robbers, etc. instead of worrying about catching the odd cell phone abuser or bad driver. Well, on average, how many people get killed each year in bank robberies vs. how many die on the roads due to bad driving behavior? Pretty simple math.

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Good point, but this takes money. My state (California) is broke. Part of the ÔÇ£balancing the budgetÔÇØ will be done by letting some prisoners out early. The only way this would work would require higher taxes, because I doubt the politicians would do it the other way. I think itÔÇÖs typical human nature to look at the positives on what is being given up and the negatives on what is being gained with change. They avoid looking at the negatives of the status quo and the positives of the proposed.

When I come across issues like this, it always reminds me of my political science professor in college. He said the issues where oneÔÇÖs freedom for something conflicts with someoneÔÇÖs freedom against something will always be the issues that are constantly debated with very little resolution. These people feel they have the right to be distracted (e.g. cell phone, texting, eating, reading, etc.) while driving. I used to believe that what we needed was proper enforcement of existing laws. Doing many of these things while driving makes them reckless drivers and we have laws for that. But, our funding for police officers is not a high as it should be. Also, many people think because itÔÇÖs not specifically outlawed, itÔÇÖs OK to do WHENEVER they feel like it. So, IÔÇÖm beginning to think we need to specific laws outlawing the things that distract drivers. Granted this is ÔÇ£cateringÔÇØ to the lowed common denominator, but I we need to do this since they will continue to be issued drivers licenses.

On a weird side note, I wonder if we required all new drivers to start off on two wheels (before being allowed to drive four-wheeled vehicles) would lead to better drivers.

Jeff, I hear ya. It gets very frustrating. I hate to hear people say, "well, it doesn't say that I can't text, read a paper, write a novel, surf the internet or make coffee while driving, therefore I should be allowed to do it". Yeah, right.

It is time to cater to the lowest common denominator, so that they are made aware that they should not be doing these stupid things. And if they continue to do these stupid things they should be punished severely. These are the same people that require directions on the Band-Aid box stating "For External Use Only".

A lot of the problem also is with the court systems and the judges. They seem to be afraid to impose fines and penalties that make any sense. It really does not cost the "state" any more if the person that wiped out 2 families while texting is already going to trial. When convicted, the judge should not be able to say "As it was their first offence we will be lenient". Like hell, they took a few lives due to being damn negligent. Throw the freakin book at them. Take away their priviledge to drive or own a car for life. Make them pay huge fines. Throw them in jail with the rapists and serial killers and see who comes out in 20-30 years. If the jails are full, well I know of a few places where they could be dropped off by helicopter and told, fend for yourself.

88bmwJeff said:

On a weird side note, I wonder if we required all new drivers to start off on two wheels (before being allowed to drive four-wheeled vehicles) would lead to better drivers.

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I have long thought this would be a very good idea. Driving any vehicle is an inherently dangerous activity. Having done mostly two wheels I believe has made me a much better cage driver.This would weed out many who are too lazy, unteachable, or irrresponsible to participate in such activity.The resulting demand for public transportation would enhance supply of same.
However, the routine of ever larger vehicles with more airbags and other passive safety devices has caused far too many to lose respect for what they are actually doing. Vehicles are becoming easy chairs where one poses with DVD's, personal communication devices, etal in multilevel climate controlled comfort. There are few "drivers", as this impies activity - more like left front seat occupants.
Those who want only passive safety, with no active measures on their part, do not belong on the road except as a passenger in a taxi or bus.

As an aside, isn't the 21st century conceited, self abosrbed, grossly overconsumptive, irresponsible soccer mom truly the iconic "Ugly American" of today?

jforgo said:

However, the routine of ever larger vehicles with more airbags and other passive safety devices has caused far too many to lose respect for what they are actually doing. Vehicles are becoming easy chairs where one poses with DVD's, personal communication devices, etal in multilevel climate controlled comfort. There are few "drivers", as this impies activity - more like left front seat occupants.
Those who want only passive safety, with no active measures on their part, do not belong on the road except as a passenger in a taxi or bus.

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