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Thread: Why the Big 3 are where they are now...

  1. #61
    I like TANG! bubbagazoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wezul View Post
    The manufacturers to watch are two:
    Hyundai and Kia.

    You heard it here first.
    Or not.



    (Quickly: Ford looks like they have a chance, GM still doesn't know it's 1980 let alone 2010, they have that reverse Midas touch and Chrysler? Heck can we finally let them die?)
    FYI, Hyundai owns Kia much the same way as GM owns Chevrolet.
    Robert
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  2. #62
    Cage Rattler wezul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbagazoo View Post
    FYI, Hyundai owns Kia much the same way as GM owns Chevrolet.
    Yes, bought them in 1998.
    Let's hope they don't do to them like GM did to Saab.
    I must say that I was not very impressed by Hyundai's Excel, how far they've come.

  3. #63
    I like TANG! bubbagazoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wezul View Post
    Yes, bought them in 1998.
    Let's hope they don't do to them like GM did to Saab.
    I must say that I was not very impressed by Hyundai's Excel, how far they've come.
    Back in the early '90s, Hyundai ran afoul of international trade laws when they were found guilty of dumping their vehicles in Canada. Dumping in the context is selling them here for less than they cost to build. A double whammy when you consider that their product was total crap at the time. They have come a long way in terms of quality.

    I don't think they're going to do to Kia what GM did to Saab. In fact, there's a brand new Kia plant in Georgia building for the US market. They're expanding.
    Robert
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Whenever the power goes off, my cheap clock radio resets to the first AM station on the dial and I'm treated to a very brief dose of talk radio. Someday, I'm going throw that piece of crap in the trash and buy a better radio with a battery back-up.
    Exactly what does that have to do with the price of bread?

  5. #65
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    One thing that gets my ire about the big three is the constant whining about unions, unions, unions from management. I spent a lot of time going over GM's books and my conclusion was that union labor was costing them an extra $350 per car. Every foreign manufacturer had to pay more than that in shipping alone. GM had major problems in EVERY sector of its business compared to its competitors except marketing. The unions represent about 20% of the big three's cost disadvantage. As long as GM managers keep complaining about unions they are missing the boat on every other problem they have, like engineering costs that are DOUBLE what BMW pays (about 50% too many engineers and 50% too many months to get the job done) . There is so much waste on the white collar side of the business that there is no way GM can compete until they get a grip on where their other 80% of the problem lies. Just to give you an example, an engineer with a battery controller was selling his license to GM. GM had 60 (yes SIXTY) attorneys and associates flown to Texas to sign the deal. How can you possibly make any money like this?

  6. #66
    IBA #44567 Ken F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carockwell View Post
    like engineering costs that are DOUBLE what BMW pays (about 50% too many engineers and 50% too many months to get the job done) . How can you possibly make any money like this?
    Sounds just like a union to me.....I think you ;answered your own post.
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  7. #67
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    [QUOTE=DwayneH;403275]
    Quote Originally Posted by r11rs94 View Post

    Don't misunderstand; the splitting of the Atom was impressive, and although Nuclear Energy is not a good alternative, it's still the only viable option in the absence of Hydro stations.
    I assume you mean hydroelectric power providing hydrogen gas. If not I am sorry

    1. Hydroelectric power is not clean, there are huge amounts of methane gas emitted from rotting organics, ecological damage, from the lake, etc.

    2 Hydrogen gas is small and high pressure, so it tends to leak given a chance. With current technology, if you parked your full hydrogen powered for a month, it would be empty when you got in it to drive.

    Properly done thorium based nuclear reactors have very few problems, can not be made into bombs, thorium is more abundant than uranium Waste is not as dangerous either. Since thorium is not used to kill each other, it has not received much attention. Sad

    Rod

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    Quote Originally Posted by carockwell View Post
    One thing that gets my ire about the big three is the constant whining about unions, unions, unions from management. I spent a lot of time going over GM's books and my conclusion was that union labor was costing them an extra $350 per car. Every foreign manufacturer had to pay more than that in shipping alone. GM had major problems in EVERY sector of its business compared to its competitors except marketing. The unions represent about 20% of the big three's cost disadvantage. As long as GM managers keep complaining about unions they are missing the boat on every other problem they have, like engineering costs that are DOUBLE what BMW pays (about 50% too many engineers and 50% too many months to get the job done) . There is so much waste on the white collar side of the business that there is no way GM can compete until they get a grip on where their other 80% of the problem lies. Just to give you an example, an engineer with a battery controller was selling his license to GM. GM had 60 (yes SIXTY) attorneys and associates flown to Texas to sign the deal. How can you possibly make any money like this?
    This union talk can get ugly quick. I am pro union because of my life experiences that include having had membership in several unions as both a regular worker and a skilled trades person PLUS having been "management". Read one of my favorite philosophers, Eric Hoffer's books for more on keeping the power in balance.
    It strikes me as funny that we bash Wall Street for their mega bonuses and at the same time begrudge union workers for making a decent living. If we were to pay union workers enough to belong to the CC, then that would be OK or not? I am proud to say(again) that I made more $ as a skilled trades union worker than as a H.S. Principal; Non-union Foreman in a union meat packing plant;Army officer/NCO;super mkt mgr., superintendent of Juvy program and some of those jobs after much more education than I had at the time of my having completed an 8,000 hour apprenticeship to become one of the nowadays bashed/overpaid union workers! Sure, some unions are poorly managed, but so are many companies...

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 460Jetboat View Post
    Sounds just like a union to me.....I think you ;answered your own post.
    You think GM engineers are unionized?
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  10. #70
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    [QUOTE=ragtoplvr;585692]
    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneH View Post

    1. Hydroelectric power is not clean, there are huge amounts of methane gas emitted from rotting organics
    As a rotting organic compound, I don't see any real issues..........
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
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  11. #71
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    Several years ago I bought a VW TDI Jetta. I would have liked to have "bought American"; but the only American-made diesels are trucks! I wanted a decent sized and equipped sedan, so the VW was my choice as I was left no other choice! It continues to hold up well and delivers 39-40 mpg even after the change in diesel formulation with lowered the mpg by two! BTW I wrote my senators and congressman and Dingle of MI explaining my chose. Received zero replies!

  12. #72
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyCWO View Post
    Several years ago I bought a VW TDI Jetta. I would have liked to have "bought American"; but the only American-made diesels are trucks! I wanted a decent sized and equipped sedan, so the VW was my choice as I was left no other choice! It continues to hold up well and delivers 39-40 mpg even after the change in diesel formulation with lowered the mpg by two! BTW I wrote my senators and congressman and Dingle of MI explaining my chose. Received zero replies!
    You can thank GM for the demise of diesels in the US with their introduction of the converted Olds 350 diesel introduced in the late 70s. Until diesel reputations were destroyed, you could buy American built die cars with foreign diesels (except for GM larger cars). It included Chevette with an Isuzu engine as well as mid and large GM cars with their homegrown disasters (but I had a Celebrity with a 4.3 diesel that gave me no engine problems-everything else on the car broke). Ford sold their cars with excellent Mazda engines. Escort, Lynx, Tempo, Topaz, Ranger and even Lincoln used the diesels. Foreign manufacturers such as Mercedes, VW, Isuzu, Mazda and many others imported diesels and sold many until GM got involved.

    After the reputation of GM diesels hit home, nobody sold a diesel in the US for many years. The mere mention of a diesel engine drove people away.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  13. #73
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osbornk View Post
    You can thank GM for the demise of diesels in the US with their introduction of the converted Olds 350 diesel introduced in the late 70s. Until diesel reputations were destroyed, you could buy American built die cars with foreign diesels (except for GM larger cars). It included Chevette with an Isuzu engine as well as mid and large GM cars with their homegrown disasters (but I had a Celebrity with a 4.3 diesel that gave me no engine problems-everything else on the car broke). Ford sold their cars with excellent Mazda engines. Escort, Lynx, Tempo, Topaz, Ranger and even Lincoln used the diesels. Foreign manufacturers such as Mercedes, VW, Isuzu, Mazda and many others imported diesels and sold many until GM got involved.

    After the reputation of GM diesels hit home, nobody sold a diesel in the US for many years. The mere mention of a diesel engine drove people away.
    I interviewed with Cummins Diesel in 1981 for an engineering job on a line of modular diesel engines for Case. During that interview, the subject of auto diesels came up and the managers I spoke with claimed that Cummins surveyed the market and didn't think it was good fit for them. Of course, GM had their own engine, Ford was in talks with other manufactures (including BMW) and Chrysler was in deep financial trouble. Interestingly, the Cummins engineers I spoke with did claim that a Chrysler prototype based on the venerable 225 slant six was a remarkably good engine and one of the best options for an automobile diesel, at that time.

    As always, 30-year old memory's are subject to errors and revision.............
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