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Thread: Warranty Claim Denied By BMW

  1. #61
    charleshickman
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    When the controversy first began, BMW and the API distinctly and openly disagreed. API said SJ oil is "better" than all prior ratings, and BMW said use "only SG or SH" rated oils because the SJ has reduced anti-wear additives (ZDDP specifically) and is not sufficient.

    There were millions of words written on the topic.

    You can all reach your own conclusions as to whether you want to agree with what BMW said regarding reduced anti-wear additives, or what the API said the car makers wanted, to protect catalytic converters for the US required 5 or 7 year emissions warranty.

    I use only SG or SH rated oils. Castrol 4t Four Stroke Motorcycle Oil to be specific. Available on the shelf at Autozone and O'Reilly that I know of. You all can believe whomever you wish to believe, but I don't think API has warranted your engine.
    I use BMW filters. I just went to my garage to check the bottles of Castrol GTX 20-50. API Service classification SH is listed, among others. Am I covered, in your opinion?

  2. #62
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charleshickman View Post
    I use BMW filters. I just went to my garage to check the bottles of Castrol GTX 20-50. API Service classification SH is listed, among others. Am I covered, in your opinion?
    Depends. Does the listing also include SJ? If so - BMW is likely to argue. Some oil companies do that - using the API claim of backwards compatibility to justify retaining earlier ratings on the bottle.

    As far as the oil containing the needed additives - a 20W-50 oil *may* actually contain them because the Feds didn't require it's removal with the higher viscosity oils, only with the "energy saving" oils (0W-15, 5W-30)..

    But - that doesn't change my point. IF you want to avoid the discussion entirely - the safe way is - under warranty - use BMW's oil. And keep the receipt. For some reason it seems very hard to get that across..
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by charleshickman View Post
    I use BMW filters. I just went to my garage to check the bottles of Castrol GTX 20-50. API Service classification SH is listed, among others. Am I covered, in your opinion?
    Probably - but might I suggest using Castrol 4t Four Stroke Motorcycle Oil - available at Autozone for about the same price as GTX. The 4t is SG/SH rated.

    I say probably because what Castrol says on the GTX bottles is meets SM,SL,SJ,SH standards - which is not the same label as SJ or SM now, (assuming it meets all prior standards). That is an explicit statement that it meets SH standards - and since it is a 20w50 wt oil it can have the higher anti-wear additive levels and still meet the later standards, as Don said.

    Below is a bottle of 4t on the left and GTX on the right.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  4. #64
    Addicted to curves azgman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HexST View Post
    The problem was with the filter used a 1150 filter was not made for a 1200 if you're going to use parts from another bike why not use a filter from a 67 falcon then bitch about not being covered.

    Does a 67 Falcon have a 2 cylinder horizontally opposed BMW engine? I am not taking sides here, because I do not know all of the facts in play, but a BMW R1150 engine is pretty similar to a BMW R1200 engine. The length of the oil filter on the 1200 is actually shorter than the 1150, thus there is less capacity in it, so one might come to a somewhat logical conclusion that an oil filter from an R1150 might be better than the OEM filter for an R1200.

    I agree that, for me, this area of saving money is not worth it and I use either the BMW filter or the MANN filter (which is R1200 specific).
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  5. #65
    Focused kbasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWPhreak View Post
    Does a 67 Falcon have a 2 cylinder horizontally opposed BMW engine? I am not taking sides here, because I do not know all of the facts in play, but a BMW R1150 engine is pretty similar to a BMW R1200 engine. The length of the oil filter on the 1200 is actually shorter than the 1150, thus there is less capacity in it, so one might come to a somewhat logical conclusion that an oil filter from an R1150 might be better than the OEM filter for an R1200.

    I agree that, for me, this area of saving money is not worth it and I use either the BMW filter or the MANN filter (which is R1200 specific).
    Beyond the size of the filter material, filters also contain a check valve. The specifications for the check valve may very well be different between the stock filter and others. The oil systems may also operate at different pressures as well. If the R1200 system operated at a higher pressure than the R1150, it may open the bypass in the filter, essentially removing the filter from the equation.

    Oil filters may be percieved by some to be a simple mechanism consisting of nothing more than some filter material, a fitting and a housing, believing that if it screws on, you're good to go. It is, more accurately, an integral portion of the lubrication system, purpose built to operate as a component of that operation.
    Dave Swider
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  6. #66
    GradGS
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    I can see BMW having a problem with you using Syntec under warranty. Unless the Syntec meets BMW's oil specifications (which are rather specific, and limit you to some motorcycle specific oils - SG/SH rated) - you are voiding BMW's warranty on oil lubricated parts by using it.

    That doesn't mean the Syntec will cause problems for you - but in this application - while under warranty*, I personally use BMW's oil since then there is no possibility of them denying warranty because of the oil I use.

    * once out of warranty - about another 10 months or less at the rate I'm going - I have 4 gallons of Mobil-1 15W-50 waiting to be used. I have used this oil in other BMW motorcycles I've owned and had the oil analyzed after 6,000 miles, and it was still protecting the engine just fine, and no traces of excessive wear was observed in the oil analysis.

    I believe the BMW GS manual states that "BMW recommends the use of Castrol oil" in it somewhere. That should mean that I would be covered under any warranty claim.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by GradGS View Post
    I believe the BMW GS manual states that "BMW recommends the use of Castrol oil" in it somewhere. That should mean that I would be covered under any warranty claim.
    as long as the version of Castrol you were using met their other stated specs, yes.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  8. #68
    GradGS
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    Just to add a little more info:

    From Castrol's website:

    BMW
    ‘«ů ‘«£BMW recommends Castrol throughout its entire operations‘«ō
    ‘«ů ‘«£The partnership between BP/Castrol and BMW includes exclusive supplier status for first-fill products and industrial lubricants‘«ō
    ‘«ů ‘«£Castrol is the exclusive lubricants partner to the BMW Group‘«ō

  9. #69
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GradGS View Post
    Just to add a little more info:

    From Castrol's website:

    BMW
    ‘«ů ‘«£BMW recommends Castrol throughout its entire operations‘«ō
    ‘«ů ‘«£The partnership between BP/Castrol and BMW includes exclusive supplier status for first-fill products and industrial lubricants‘«ō
    ‘«ů ‘«£Castrol is the exclusive lubricants partner to the BMW Group‘«ō
    That's true in Europe. It isn't true in the USA. Golden-Spectro makes BMW's US moto oils.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders
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  10. #70
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GradGS View Post
    I believe the BMW GS manual states that "BMW recommends the use of Castrol oil" in it somewhere. That should mean that I would be covered under any warranty claim.
    I wish you a lot of luck using that argument if BMW denys warranty coverage.

    Does this mean you could use some single weight oil meant for lawnmower use as long as it has "Castrol" on the bottle? I don't think so..

    And again - PLEASE READ WHAT I SAID. What I DO under warranty is use BMW's oil and filters. I explained why.

    What you do is whatever you want since you'll have the trouble of dealing with a warranty denial - it is no skin off my nose.

    I don't know how much clearer I can make it - so I'm not replying to any more of these sort of questions.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders
    '12 R1200R - I love this bike!

  11. #71
    Focused kbasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GradGS View Post
    I believe the BMW GS manual states that "BMW recommends the use of Castrol oil" in it somewhere. That should mean that I would be covered under any warranty claim.
    I believe they also have a specification for the oil and the owners manual specifies which API spec and oil weight should be used. This is the more important bit.
    Dave Swider
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    That's true in Europe. It isn't true in the USA. Golden-Spectro makes BMW's US moto oils.
    Don- is that still the case? i know that Spectro was packaging their productunder the BMW label about 7-10 years ago, but i thought that arrangement had ceased.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  13. #73
    GradGS
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBasa View Post
    I believe they also have a specification for the oil and the owners manual specifies which API spec and oil weight should be used. This is the more important bit.
    Exactly, as long as the API spec is followed then using Castrol is no problem, especially since BMW recommends it in the GS manual. BTW, under the part of their site that talks about worldwide (not solely European) dealerships, it says "Our engine oils and lubricants are officially recommended for all BMW cars and motorcycles. These vehicles are now filled with Castrol oils, engine and transmission lubricants and other technical fluids as they leave the production line." If Don feels better paying for the overpriced BMW stuff then it doesn't bother me one bit...but there is no way BMW is going to deny a warranty claim if you are using Castrol oil since their motorcycles obviously come with the stuff from the factory.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    Don- is that still the case? i know that Spectro was packaging their productunder the BMW label about 7-10 years ago, but i thought that arrangement had ceased.
    yes. it is still spectro.
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  15. #75
    ssls6
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    I'm surprised no one remembers what BMWNA was recommending during the R1200GS oil filter shortage in 2005.

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