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charleshickman
Guest
I use BMW filters. I just went to my garage to check the bottles of Castrol GTX 20-50. API Service classification SH is listed, among others. Am I covered, in your opinion?
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I use BMW filters. I just went to my garage to check the bottles of Castrol GTX 20-50. API Service classification SH is listed, among others. Am I covered, in your opinion?
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
Depends. Does the listing also include SJ? If so - BMW is likely to argue. Some oil companies do that - using the API claim of backwards compatibility to justify retaining earlier ratings on the bottle.
As far as the oil containing the needed additives - a 20W-50 oil *may* actually contain them because the Feds didn't require it's removal with the higher viscosity oils, only with the "energy saving" oils (0W-15, 5W-30)..
But - that doesn't change my point. IF you want to avoid the discussion entirely - the safe way is - under warranty - use BMW's oil. And keep the receipt. For some reason it seems very hard to get that across..
pglaves
#13338
Probably - but might I suggest using Castrol 4t Four Stroke Motorcycle Oil - available at Autozone for about the same price as GTX. The 4t is SG/SH rated.
I say probably because what Castrol says on the GTX bottles is meets SM,SL,SJ,SH standards - which is not the same label as SJ or SM now, (assuming it meets all prior standards). That is an explicit statement that it meets SH standards - and since it is a 20w50 wt oil it can have the higher anti-wear additive levels and still meet the later standards, as Don said.
Below is a bottle of 4t on the left and GTX on the right.
Attachments
azgman
Addicted to curves
Does a 67 Falcon have a 2 cylinder horizontally opposed BMW engine? I am not taking sides here, because I do not know all of the facts in play, but a BMW R1150 engine is pretty similar to a BMW R1200 engine. The length of the oil filter on the 1200 is actually shorter than the 1150, thus there is less capacity in it, so one might come to a somewhat logical conclusion that an oil filter from an R1150 might be better than the OEM filter for an R1200.
I agree that, for me, this area of saving money is not worth it and I use either the BMW filter or the MANN filter (which is R1200 specific).
kbasa
Well-known member
Beyond the size of the filter material, filters also contain a check valve. The specifications for the check valve may very well be different between the stock filter and others. The oil systems may also operate at different pressures as well. If the R1200 system operated at a higher pressure than the R1150, it may open the bypass in the filter, essentially removing the filter from the equation.
Oil filters may be percieved by some to be a simple mechanism consisting of nothing more than some filter material, a fitting and a housing, believing that if it screws on, you're good to go. It is, more accurately, an integral portion of the lubrication system, purpose built to operate as a component of that operation.
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GradGS
Guest
I believe the BMW GS manual states that "BMW recommends the use of Castrol oil" in it somewhere. That should mean that I would be covered under any warranty claim.
bikerfish1100
New member
as long as the version of Castrol you were using met their other stated specs, yes.
G
GradGS
Guest
Just to add a little more info:
From Castrol's website:
BMW
ÔÇó ÔÇ£BMW recommends Castrol throughout its entire operationsÔÇØ
ÔÇó ÔÇ£The partnership between BP/Castrol and BMW includes exclusive supplier status for first-fill products and industrial lubricantsÔÇØ
ÔÇó ÔÇ£Castrol is the exclusive lubricants partner to the BMW GroupÔÇØ
From Castrol's website:
BMW
ÔÇó ÔÇ£BMW recommends Castrol throughout its entire operationsÔÇØ
ÔÇó ÔÇ£The partnership between BP/Castrol and BMW includes exclusive supplier status for first-fill products and industrial lubricantsÔÇØ
ÔÇó ÔÇ£Castrol is the exclusive lubricants partner to the BMW GroupÔÇØ
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
That's true in Europe. It isn't true in the USA. Golden-Spectro makes BMW's US moto oils.
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
I wish you a lot of luck using that argument if BMW denys warranty coverage.
Does this mean you could use some single weight oil meant for lawnmower use as long as it has "Castrol" on the bottle? I don't think so..
And again - PLEASE READ WHAT I SAID. What I DO under warranty is use BMW's oil and filters. I explained why.
What you do is whatever you want since you'll have the trouble of dealing with a warranty denial - it is no skin off my nose.
I don't know how much clearer I can make it - so I'm not replying to any more of these sort of questions.
kbasa
Well-known member
I believe they also have a specification for the oil and the owners manual specifies which API spec and oil weight should be used. This is the more important bit.
bikerfish1100
New member
Don- is that still the case? i know that Spectro was packaging their productunder the BMW label about 7-10 years ago, but i thought that arrangement had ceased.
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GradGS
Guest
Exactly, as long as the API spec is followed then using Castrol is no problem, especially since BMW recommends it in the GS manual. BTW, under the part of their site that talks about worldwide (not solely European) dealerships, it says "Our engine oils and lubricants are officially recommended for all BMW cars and motorcycles. These vehicles are now filled with Castrol oils, engine and transmission lubricants and other technical fluids as they leave the production line." If Don feels better paying for the overpriced BMW stuff then it doesn't bother me one bit...but there is no way BMW is going to deny a warranty claim if you are using Castrol oil since their motorcycles obviously come with the stuff from the factory.
jasontdi
TDI Guru
yes. it is still spectro.
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ssls6
Guest
I'm surprised no one remembers what BMWNA was recommending during the R1200GS oil filter shortage in 2005.
BeemerMike
Republic of Texas
You can't make it any clearer. Some people will continue to insist on trying to save that incremental "$10" on maintenance for their $15k+ motorcycle. 999 out of 1,000 of them will get away with it. Unfortunately, #1,000 will get screwed when their warranty claim is denied for using "non-specified" filters and/or lubricants.Take A Deep Breath...Get A Grip..
From the Spectro web site FAQs; high lighting is mine:
"Question:
My dealer says I have to use the OEM lubricant in my motorcycle or my warranty is void.
Answer:
This is not true and may, in fact, be illegal. Have the dealer put this in writing on his letterhead. We doubt he will. All you need to do to fulfill your warranty requirements is to use a lubricant that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications. Spectro products meet or exceed all manufacturers performance requirements.[/COLOR]"
No dogma here, just facts....BMW in it's usual style will never make a definitive statement about either a problem or a solution to a problem...so good luck on trying to second guess BMW on which warranty claims they will honor...kinda like the rumored [never have seen the 'fabled memo'] R12 final drive BMW warranty extension of the 3 year to 5 years.
Besides BMWs never need a warranty..they last forever.
From the Spectro web site FAQs; high lighting is mine:
"Question:
My dealer says I have to use the OEM lubricant in my motorcycle or my warranty is void.
Answer:
This is not true and may, in fact, be illegal. Have the dealer put this in writing on his letterhead. We doubt he will. All you need to do to fulfill your warranty requirements is to use a lubricant that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications. Spectro products meet or exceed all manufacturers performance requirements.[/COLOR]"
No dogma here, just facts....BMW in it's usual style will never make a definitive statement about either a problem or a solution to a problem...so good luck on trying to second guess BMW on which warranty claims they will honor...kinda like the rumored [never have seen the 'fabled memo'] R12 final drive BMW warranty extension of the 3 year to 5 years.
Besides BMWs never need a warranty..they last forever.
BeemerMike
Republic of Texas
From the Spectro web site FAQs; high lighting is mine:
"Question:
My dealer says I have to use the OEM lubricant in my motorcycle or my warranty is void.
Answer:
This is not true and may, in fact, be illegal. Have the dealer put this in writing on his letterhead. We doubt he will. All you need to do to fulfill your warranty requirements is to use a lubricant that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications. Spectro products meet or exceed all manufacturers performance requirements.[/COLOR]"
No dogma here, just facts....BMW in it's usual style will never make a definitive statement about either a problem or a solution to a problem...so good luck on trying to second guess BMW on which warranty claims they will honor...kinda like the rumored [never have seen the 'fabled memo'] R12 final drive BMW warranty extension of the 3 year to 5 years.
Besides BMWs never need a warranty..they last forever.
Sorry Phil, but I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Can you clarify?
Sorry For Confusion..
First any oil that meets the listed grade/viscosity recommendations from BMW will not void the warranty..per se. I don't think not using a BMW brand oil can be grounds for refusing a warranty claim.
Next Spectro, to my knowledge, still produces the BMW oil and it is either a synthetic blend or full synthetic [?]...either way that also goes against the BMW recommendation to only, in my '07 GSA at least, switch to synthetic at 10,000 miles. In essence my 600 mile dealer oil change used at the minimum a synthetic blend...soooooo, as the old expression goes BMW may act like a "reformed whore" but she [BMW] ain't being honest.
I do realize that BMW can deny any and all claims they want to. Doing battle with BMW over a claim would most often be a huge waste of energy and have little hope of success...they hold all the cards, nothwithstanding any consumer laws.
First any oil that meets the listed grade/viscosity recommendations from BMW will not void the warranty..per se. I don't think not using a BMW brand oil can be grounds for refusing a warranty claim.
Next Spectro, to my knowledge, still produces the BMW oil and it is either a synthetic blend or full synthetic [?]...either way that also goes against the BMW recommendation to only, in my '07 GSA at least, switch to synthetic at 10,000 miles. In essence my 600 mile dealer oil change used at the minimum a synthetic blend...soooooo, as the old expression goes BMW may act like a "reformed whore" but she [BMW] ain't being honest.
I do realize that BMW can deny any and all claims they want to. Doing battle with BMW over a claim would most often be a huge waste of energy and have little hope of success...they hold all the cards, nothwithstanding any consumer laws.
markgoodrich
New member
Gracious! Lotta shouting going on. I think it's real clear what Mr. Eilenberger's opinion is, and I'm sure his opinion is well-informed. It's still his opinion(s) that he's stating, not facts, at least I've seen no facts presented in this thread. It may be important to note that he does not work for BMWNA, and is not involved in warranty decisions.
Someone said their GS manual recommends Castrol, and I bet somewhere it also specifies, not recommends, a minimum API specification as well as multi-grade viscosity.
On another forum I read a new GS owner's comment that his manual recommends "mineral oil."
My manual, as already stated, says "SF or better." We can all quibble over better, worse, same, different, forever. The real answer is what BMWNA will do. BMW recommends in writing in my manual very specifically what type lubricant I should use and I note that nowhere in the manual does it call for a particular brand.
I've written BMWNA, asking them to clarify exactly which API specs are acceptable for my 2006 RT, whether the warranty will be voided if I don't use their branded oil, and other questions related to this uproar. If they reply, I'll certainly report the results.
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