Warranty Claim Denied By BMW

This is a very serious issue pertaining to BMW declining a warranty item due to the use of non-BMW specific parts... Please review and take heed:


http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=425367#Post425367

Pretty much proving the point a number of us tried to make some months ago.. when under warranty, using non-BMW parts/oils may be a false economy. Unless the manufacturer specifies the part is made for your bike, you may have problems if you have a warranty claim that could possibly be caused by using a non-approved part.

deilenberger said:

Pretty much proving the point a number of us tried to make some months ago.. when under warranty, using non-BMW parts/oils may be a false economy. Unless the manufacturer specifies the part is made for your bike, you may have problems if you have a warranty claim that could possibly be caused by using a non-approved part.

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While under warranty . . . BMW oil filters and SG/SH oil. After that . . . whatever you want, because it's your dollars that will do any repairs. A BMW oil filter may cost $17, but there is nothing inside your engine that will only cost $17 to repair.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act specifically prohibits manufacturers from making their warranty conditional on using only their parts. Here is the relevant section of the law:

"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name... (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).

I know this applies to automobiles. I'm not sure if it applies to motorcycles.

BMW's position sounds like the typical HMO. Deny a legitimate claim and see if it goes away. If it doesn't disappear, procrastinate until absolutely forced to concede.

Why do we continue to support a company that is so anti-consumer?

I'm with you.. This is my last BMW motorcycle... I love the RT, but BMW burns me up when it comes to their attitude toward their customers and supporters.

I'll start looking at the new sport tourers seriously in the next year or so. Probably be just about the time when my esa shock will be wearing out.. I sure am not going to pay their prices to replace a shock. So there is probably going to be a Jap sport tourer in my future.

Remember - just because the threads work and it fits in the hole doesn't mean that an oil filter actually meets BMW spec's. Fram filters come to mind - but I don't recall the exact numbers. One filter, (3xxx something) fits fine and is readily available at Walmart and other places. But it is not the Fram filter specified by Fram as actually for a BMW motorcycle( 6xxx something). Use the right one and Magnuson-Moss applies. Use the wrong one and you are on your own.

I have no idea in the thread cited over on sport touring whether the Amsoil filter used was specified by Amsoil as for BMW motorcycles. If it is - the owner may have a claim against Amsoil and BMW because Magnuson-Moss would apply. If it is the handy car filter not spec'd for BMW motorcycles - again the owner is in his/her own. Good luck!

I'm sorry if this offends anybody, but to me this makes as much sense as going down to the local hardware store to get common low tensile strength bolts and using them for wheel bolts - and when they break and the wheel falls off blaming BMW.

But I know nothing about the RH cylinder problem referenced in the sport touring thread.

Try using a We 'R' Oil Filters filter on a Honda or any model and then see what their warranty department says. Sure there are laws people can recite, but then there is the real world delays, concerns and problems. It is cheaper to go along with the common sense program [what the manufacturer recommends] then saving $5.00 on an oil filter every 3-6,000 miles.

I know it is a real point of contention, but for the sake of $5.00 all would no doubt be played out as the owner desires.

kthutchinson said:

BMW's position sounds like the typical HMO. Deny a legitimate claim and see if it goes away. If it doesn't disappear, procrastinate until absolutely forced to concede.

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I don't think Don, I, and others are defending BMW's denial of the warranty claim.

The point is that there is an easy way to avoid the problem completely, even if you do your own maintenance. Just use parts (filters, lubricants, etc.) that are clearly approved by BMW (they don't have to be BMW branded, but that certainly helps). Why take the risk to save a relatively small amount of money during the warranty period? Why have to hire an attorney to argue the applicability of the M-M Act?

And I think what Mike, Paul and I are trying to point out:

At least under warranty - if you use BMW parts and oils - BMW would have a difficult time denying warranty for unapproved parts. I'm not thrifty enough to want to challenge them on the warranty, if my bike broke, I want them to fix it with no fuss.

Magnuson-Moss is a real nice law, but unless you're an attorney, BMW has the upper hand since they DO have attorneys and they are within their rights in challenging a warranty claim. It's a case of even if you win - you lose.

The phrase "Pound wise, penny foolish" comes to mind. After the warranty is up.. well, I have 4 gallons of Mobil-1 15W-50 in my garage waiting to be used (local auto-chain had a super-duper-sale.. $10/gallon..)

rglassma said:

I'm with you.. This is my last BMW motorcycle... I love the RT, but BMW burns me up when it comes to their attitude toward their customers and supporters.

I'll start looking at the new sport tourers seriously in the next year or so. Probably be just about the time when my esa shock will be wearing out.. I sure am not going to pay their prices to replace a shock. So there is probably going to be a Jap sport tourer in my future.

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Well - good luck with the Japanese sport tourer... I have noticed that no one I know who went that way stayed with the Japanese bikes. There is something that BMW does with their bikes the Japanese have yet to replicate. The same seems to apply to their cars.

BeemerMike said:

I don't think Don, I, and others are defending BMW's denial of the warranty claim.

The point is that there is an easy way to avoid the problem completely, even if you do your own maintenance. Just use parts (filters, lubricants, etc.) that are clearly approved by BMW (they don't have to be BMW branded, but that certainly helps). Why take the risk to save a relatively small amount of money during the warranty period? Why have to hire an attorney to argue the applicability of the M-M Act?

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Preceisly.

My BMW dealer uses Amsoil synthetic oil in my R1200RT...........not the BMW-badged quarts that cost twice as much, but in his opinion, do not perform as well.

Point is, because the DEALER is using this product under warranty, I am immune from culpability should something catastrophic occur inside the engine (until the warranty period ends, of course).

So, there are some aftermarket products which meet BMW specs and can be used............just not everything out there.

Like others have implied, stay within BMW specs and guidelines while under warranty. Then, if your idea of cycle maintenance is a trip to Wal-Mart or Costco.......your dollar.

deilenberger said:

Well - good luck with the Japanese sport tourer... I have noticed that no one I know who went that way stayed with the Japanese bikes. There is something that BMW does with their bikes the Japanese have yet to replicate. The same seems to apply to their cars.

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DUH!

Rode the Smokies in '07 with a co-worker on his Yamaha FJR1300 - not impressed.

Fellow Motor Officer announced he is trading in his Triumph Sprint ST for an R1200GS in Spring.

My son ('07 Honda ST1300) and I occasionally swap mounts on long rides.....I end up wanting my R1200RT back......he resists giving it up.

Jury still out on the new Concours, but three recalls already this year. Not good.

Careful what you wish for.

Greenwald said:

Point is, because the DEALER is using this product under warranty, I am immune from culpability should something catastrophic occur inside the engine (until the warranty period ends, of course).

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I would still suggest that you check and confirm that your BMW dealer always uses "BMW approved" parts, and that the parts used are clearly documented on your service invoices (filter part #, oil brand and viscosity).

IF your BMW dealer used non-approved parts . . . say an Amsoil oil that did not meet BMW's stated requirements (SG/SH) . . . and you had a failure that BMW claimed was due to the non-approved oil . . . BMW probably could still deny the warranty claim, IF they chose to do so (I'm not saying they would). Clearly, the BMW dealer would be liable to you in tort for using the non-approved lubricant (unless you knowingly agreed to them using a non-approved oil), and BMW may also be liable via "agency" (the dealer is authorized by BMW), but that is nowhere near as clean and easy as resolving it under the warranty.

My local Jeep dealer occasionally has oil and filter change "specials". Sometimes (but not all the time), these specials do NOT include the use of a Mopar filter, but rather some aftermarket filter (I don't know which one), so I have to be careful to make sure they are using a Mopar oil filter while my Liberty is still under the factory 7/70,000 engine and drivetrain warranty. Interestingly, I don't have this issue with BMW dealer oil and filter changes on my Z3 (they always use BMW synthetic oil and a BMW filter cartridge even when running a service special), but then the oil and filter changes are not $15, even on special (although they are not really much more than to have it done at Jiffy Lube).

PGlaves said:

I have no idea in the thread cited over on sport touring whether the Amsoil filter used was specified by Amsoil as for BMW motorcycles.

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The filter he used was specified for an R1150, but not an R1200.

deilenberger said:

Well - good luck with the Japanese sport tourer... I have noticed that no one I know who went that way stayed with the Japanese bikes. There is something that BMW does with their bikes the Japanese have yet to replicate. The same seems to apply to their cars.

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Albeit I have 4 airheads and an oilhead, I love my ST1300. The fact is I don't see a way to compare it to the opposed twin BMW's. It's an apple vs oranges thing. As to sticking with it I sold the '05ST with 60K and got an '07 just because I like the silver. You now know someone who has stuck with the Japanese sport tourer.
robert airheads and an oilhead..... '07 ST1300 ......and the dark horse a Road King

I checked.

Amsoil synthetic being used within BMW specs.

Thanks.

The problem was with the filter used a 1150 filter was not made for a 1200 if you're going to use parts from another bike why not use a filter from a 67 falcon then bitch about not being covered.

In California (I wouldn't doubt that other states are similar) a manufactor can't deny a warrant claim for using non-oem parts if, and here it comes...

1, Said parts meet published industry standards as called out by the OEM.
2, All required services are performed with corroborating receipts and documentation.
3, The OEM does not provide parts and labor required for routine scheduled service free of charge.
4, Service does not require certified training or access to OEM diagnostic or repair equipment.

What does it mean?

Item 1 is easy. Buy brand name products that meet the spec.
Item 2 can get sticky. You have to have a log of all services with date, mileage, work performed and products used.
Item 3...I love this one. If the dealer gives you the first few oil changes free (as many do) you MUST perform them at the dealer. You can't decide you want to do it yourself. Since they are willing to do it free OEM parts are mandated. Also skipping free service can and/or will affect unrelated warranty claims down the road. IE: your computer blows up and you didn't have the dealer do that oil change at 600 miles. You're screwed.
Item 4 shouldn't be an issue. Usually. However as an example my Daytona 675 required the Throttle Bodies to be checked and reset at the 1st service. And guess what? You need a special computer.

Admittedly the dealer has a huge influence on the OEMs paying claims. But the ultimate decision is with the OEM and their reps. And as someone said earlier...If they don't want to pay it's a huge uphill battle. And chances are they will just bury you regardless of the law.

Oh and how do I know this? Let's just say Suzuki can kiss my hairy butt!

Hey Mike,you don't have to use the mopar filter to keep your powertrain warranty in effect. The only time I have ever seen any issues with a filter is on a cummins. They have a list of approved oil and fuel filters and if the wrong one is on there they will deny coverage. On the other chrysler built engines I have never seen a denial as long as you can produce records to prove you changed the oil and filter. One thing they are starting to do is deny warranty on differentials if you don't change the fluid every 16,000 miles.

Its hard to understand why a machine (BMW) thats touted to be a world traveler can be so delicate.