DYNA BEADS for tire balancing

Yes, the axle is at the center of the tire but if the tire is not balanced and is rotating then the axle is pushed up and down, resulting in a bumpy ride. Wheel balancers don't allow this motion.
It is this motion that distributes the beads such that the imbalance is nulled out and the result is a smooth ride.

Imagine the drill/bottle test with a wooden dowel in the neck so the 'axle' doesn't flop around. If the drill were mounted in a vice then the beads would not be able to balance the bottle.

MotorradMike said:

Yes, the axle is at the center of the tire but if the tire is not balanced and is rotating then the axle is pushed up and down, resulting in a bumpy ride. Wheel balancers don't allow this motion.
It is this motion that distributes the beads such that the imbalance is nulled out and the result is a smooth ride.

Imagine the drill/bottle test with a wooden dowel in the neck so the 'axle' doesn't flop around. If the drill were mounted in a vice then the beads would not be able to balance the bottle.

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That "up and down" force on the axle when a wheel/tire is out of balance is how wheel balancers detect an out of balance situation in the first place. There is no other "magic" going on for them to detect this. So, if the dyna beads really worked, they would balance on a machine just the same as they would in a tire on the road.

This reminds me of a company call "Rocky Mountain Radar" who sold radar detectors and jammers. Of course, a jammer is illegal, but they sold the unit like this. It was supposed to be a "passive" jammer and scramble the signal going back to the radar gun. In the instructions they claimed that driving at one of those "you are going..." speed signs was not a valid test for some reason or another. It turns out that they were selling radar detectors with no jamming circuitry at all. This is very similar, though. Eliminate the only easy way of proving if the product works or not, include a technical description of what is happening, and wait for people to buy into it.

I think I'm going to start selling "Josh's Magic Balancing Beans". I'll just use airsoft pellets, claiming their uniform size and shape is better than dyna beads, point to truckers using similar products, and wait to make my millions.

MotorradMike said:

Yes, the axle is at the center of the tire but if the tire is not balanced and is rotating then the axle is pushed up and down, resulting in a bumpy ride. Wheel balancers don't allow this motion.
It is this motion that distributes the beads such that the imbalance is nulled out and the result is a smooth ride.

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It would seem to me that the very large forces created by the spinning tire essentially pin down the beads to the outside of the tire, where ever they settle out. And that minor road bumps would do little to dislodge them against these large forces.

jdmetzger said:

That "up and down" force on the axle when a wheel/tire is out of balance is how wheel balancers detect an out of balance situation in the first place. There is no other "magic" going on for them to detect this. So, if the dyna beads really worked, they would balance on a machine just the same as they would in a tire on the road.

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Yes, I agree the wheel balancer uses the force of the the axle against the balancer hub(force without motion) to determine where the weights should go but it does not allow the axle to actually move as it would in a suspension. If the axle can't move then the beads can't distribute to null out the imbalance. I'm not sure what would happen on a dynamic balancer but I suspect it would take a bit longer and still specify the correct weights with the beads evenly distributed in the tire and doing nothing.

How much do you want for a bag of 'Joshs magic balancing beans'? Do you have any other products that might increase fuel economy.

Is there a physicist in the house? I think I get how these work but I obviously can't explain it.

MotorradMike said:

Yes, I agree the wheel balancer uses the force of the the axle against the balancer hub(force without motion) to determine where the weights should go but it does not allow the axle to actually move as it would in a suspension. If the axle can't move then the beads can't distribute to null out the imbalance. I'm not sure what would happen on a dynamic balancer but I suspect it would take a bit longer and still specify the correct weights with the beads evenly distributed in the tire and doing nothing.

How much do you want for a bag of 'Joshs magic balancing beans'? Do you have any other products that might increase fuel economy.

Is there a physicist in the house? I think I get how these work but I obviously can't explain it.

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Aside from magic balancing beans, I also sell magnets to put on your fuel lines which should increase mpg by 5%, and I also have a special cleaner you can put on your tires which will increase your mpg by decreasing rolling friction. It's only good for straight line application, though.

I wish there was an independent scientific evaluation of these beads. It's obvious that I currently don't use them because I don't believe in them working, but to be honest I wish I had the evidence I seek to prove me wrong. It would make my life easier when I change tires myself, and it would be nice to be able to ride somewhere on my GSPD, switch to knobbies, ride off road, and switch back - all without worrying about balance aside from pouring the beads in.

I eagerly await the independent testing I so desire. It would be the fastest way for "Innovating Balancing" to get my money.

say what !

OHScot said:

...8 sets of tires...Up until 5 years ago never balanced a tire. ... I ride mostly 50-60 mph...Never noticed a difference or problem....

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Just for you, grafikfeat, I used the Metzeter website to ask them for a definitive answer. Anything else I can do for you, let me know.

Question:
Hello,
I'd like to know your opinion of the use of dry ceramic beads inside your tires for balancing. An example of this is Dyna Beads.
Do you have a recommendation on the use them in Metzeler tires on my motorcycles?
Thank you.

Answer:
Hello
Thanks for the e-mail and question. Metzeler suggests using the standard tire and wheel assembly balancing method of using wheel weights applied to the rim or spoke as the only approved method.
US Metzeler Moto
www.us.metzelermoto.com
877 202-4993

If you ONLY use Dyna Beads, you're missing out:

Permanently Re-refines Fuel, Guaranteeing Optimal Engine Efficiency, Performance and Reduced Emissions
The commercialization of the Fitch Fuel Catalyst is a direct result of a collaborative Research Program with the Department of Defense and accredited State University that proves the Fitch Fuel Catalyst modifies fuel.


The Fitch Fuel Catalyst is NOT an additive. It is a long term fuel treatment offering a number of benefits: Insure Fuel Quality During Storage
Increase Gasoline Octane & Diesel Cetane
Improve Engine Performance (Horsepower & Torque)
Improve Fuel Economy
Reduce Emissions - Green House Gases
Reduce Engine Maintenance
Improve Oil Burner Efficiency

I don't know about other brands, but I just read that Dunlop will not warrantee tires that have had beads, Slime, or any other substance put in the tires.

I have been corresponding with the technical staff at dynabeads as a result of this thread. They indicated they have a 24-page technical paper, written by a physicist that explains the reason the beads work. I have not seen it yet, but I will share highlights of the info once they send it.

Even if there is some reason that the dynamic balancer test doesn't work, it would be easy to have a test lab document an out-of-balance condition on the motorcycle. Then the beads could be added and it could be documented that the problem was corrected. The test could be done on an airport runway so there would be no question about the surface. If that test was done properly it would remove any doubt about the products effectiveness. If I ran their company and my product worked as advertised, that is the video I would be circulating.

sumran said:

I have been corresponding with the technical staff at dynabeads as a result of this thread. They indicated they have a 24-page technical paper, written by a physicist that explains the reason the beads work. I have not seen it yet, but I will share highlights of the info once they send it.

Even if there is some reason that the dynamic balancer test doesn't work, it would be easy to have a test lab document an out-of-balance condition on the motorcycle. Then the beads could be added and it could be documented that the problem was corrected. The test could be done on an airport runway so there would be no question about the surface. If that test was done properly it would remove any doubt about the products effectiveness. If I ran their company and my product worked as advertised, that is the video I would be circulating.

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I look forward to seeing that article. I hope the name of the physicist is included with the technical paper. I also hope it sufficiently explains why you cannot verify the beads functionality with a dynamic balancer.

I can't figure out why they wouldn't have posted this paper on their website a while ago, unless they just had the study done.

What would you expect to find happening to the bike if the wheels were not balanced?I'm using the beads and feel they are working, but maybe I'm overlooking something.So what should I look for?

Thanks

Lowrider said:

What would you expect to find happening to the bike if the wheels were not balanced?I'm using the beads and feel they are working, but maybe I'm overlooking something.So what should I look for?

Thanks

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You would feel a vibration or wobble, most likely. I rode with an unbalanced TKC (ended up needing only a little weight) and I didn't even notice it much at all until after I had it balanced, and even then it wasn't extremely noticeable.

I have been thinking more about the beads and I'm still not sure I would run them. I have frequently seen that they are "not good for racing applications" where you would be braking hard into the turns (throwing the beads towards the front of the tire). This, coupled with them starting to work at 35mph and I don't think they will work for me and my riding style. Many times I'll be on a twisty road and brake before a turn (getting my speed below 35 for some of them), which would mean I'd have weight shifting around inside my tire. It doesn't seem optimal.

I'd still be interested in seeing the physics paper on the beads to see if/how they work for the rest of the time (riding straight and over 35mph).

jdmetzger said:

I'd still be interested in seeing the physics paper on the beads.

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The physics paper? How about any physics paper?

you nay sayers make me sick!

next you will try to say deer whistles don't work,
amzoil can't go 50k miles,
slick 50 plugs up your engine,
and extenze makes you smaller!

All users of the beads:

Did you know that you were affecting your tire warranty when you installed the beads?

Is anyone stepping up to cover you if you have a problem?

Ask the guy who sold them to you what he will do now to back up his product.

R90S said:

Just for you, grafikfeat, I used the Metzeter website to ask them for a definitive answer. Anything else I can do for you, let me know.

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Yeah, wash my bike.

Again, thanks for playing.

R90S said:

All users of the beads:

Did you know that you were affecting your tire warranty when you installed the beads?

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No I did not but I'm not worried. I suspect this no warranty policy came about due to the clumping or abrasion issues with early internal balancing powders and glass beads. Is warranty void if you change your tire with irons on the garage floor?

My current rear tire is about 80% worn out. I'll know if the beads did anything visual when I change it next season.

The beads spend most of their time stationary WRT the tire. If they constantly rolled around perhaps they'd do some abrading.

It's just common sense that they won't do any harm.

R90S said:

All users of the beads:
Did you know that you were affecting your tire warranty when you installed the beads?
Is anyone stepping up to cover you if you have a problem?
Ask the guy who sold them to you what he will do now to back up his product.

Click to expand...

I emailed the warranty question along w/ this text from Metzlers site:

Metzeler:
"Caution: To avoid the danger of air leakage use only weights that are recommended from the motorcycle manufacturer like spoke nipple weights,
lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights.
METZELER does not recommend the use of liquid balancers or liquid balance/sealers.
METZELER does not give warranty for tires into which these have been injected."


My reply from DynaBeads:
"We have talked to the US Metzler Rep, and the use of Dyna Beads will not void your warranty.
Notice your copy specifically says "liquid.."
Dunlop is the only mfg that will void the warranty, but this is a dealer call, and it's simple to deal with.
We advise all our dealers how to deal with this issue."

Robert
Technical Support
robert@innovativebalancing.com

He too notes the wording of liquids as I did in the earlier post.
I'm done beating the sh!t out of this topic.
Your bike... Your rules.
Do what ya want. I'm trying them next set of tires.

MotorradMike said:

The beads spend most of their time stationary WRT the tire. If they constantly rolled around perhaps they'd do some abrading.

It's just common sense that they won't do any harm.

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If your tire maintained a constant shape as it rotated, that might be true. But it doesn't.

Look at your tire where it rests on the pavement. It changes shape a little to make a contact patch. With every rotation. the tire goes into that shape and then back to its unloaded shape.

Whatever is inside the tire is getting moved around, with some force, on every rotation.

The tire manufacturers are probably not designing their tires to deal with the dynamic load of loose material on the inside of the tire. No wonder they have made those statements in their warranties.