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Enough is Enough:

Sometimes the extra cost...

Yes but, when an item costs $20 to make, imagine how much better it will be for $40...an extra $20, yet retail works out to an extra $500. :scratch

Lets not forget that "extra" cost in buying up here...on top of that extra cost you are talking about.
 
***Sorry for the temporary hijack.***


Jeff,

Curious about what you do for a rainsuit.

My inseam is 36. I have not been able to find any rainsuit with legs longer than 34 inches at best- and once I sit down in a 34 it is at my boot tops.


Any suggestions on where to look?

Thanks,
John

Well I don't ride much in the rain, but the BMW rain suit pants fit me. I don't remember off hand their official name. I seem to have plenty of boot coverage.

With regards to inseam, you have me beat. My biggest problem has been the placement of the knee armor. I must have really long thighs. The thigh length on most pants (even the "long" versions) are too short and back pressure on the knee armor is unbearable after a few hours. But, that's probably more than you wanted to know.
 
I've learned - you buy the good stuff once, the crap repeatedly.

My first RoadCrafter lasted me about 14 years - cost $800. Still wearable, but looking a bit worn, and somehow parts of it shrunk over the winter. Cost per year - less than $50.

My new RoadCrafter cost about $1,000 - but that's entirely custom sizing, sleeves, legs, gut, waist - all custom sized for me. It fits wonderfully and makes me look almost human. If I get 14 years from it I'll be very happy (and very old).

I've never tested the crashworthyness, and don't intend to - but I feel better knowing it's there. Same thing on a Shuburth helmet (I'm on my 4th over the course of about 18 years now..) It's the best I could get - does what I want - makes me happy when I wear it - so it's worth every penny.

I'll repeat what I said - you buy the good stuff once - that's what makes it worth the price paid. (And RoadCrafter/RiderWarehouse/AeroStich products are made in the USA - sez so right inside it. That's worth something to me also.)

No Ferrari's in the garage..
 
I've learned - you buy the good stuff once, the crap repeatedly.

My first RoadCrafter lasted me about 14 years - cost $800. Still wearable, but looking a bit worn, and somehow parts of it shrunk over the winter. Cost per year - less than $50.

My new RoadCrafter cost about $1,000 - but that's entirely custom sizing, sleeves, legs, gut, waist - all custom sized for me. It fits wonderfully and makes me look almost human. If I get 14 years from it I'll be very happy (and very old).

I've never tested the crashworthyness, and don't intend to - but I feel better knowing it's there. Same thing on a Shuburth helmet (I'm on my 4th over the course of about 18 years now..) It's the best I could get - does what I want - makes me happy when I wear it - so it's worth every penny.

I'll repeat what I said - you buy the good stuff once - that's what makes it worth the price paid. (And RoadCrafter/RiderWarehouse/AeroStich products are made in the USA - sez so right inside it. That's worth something to me also.)

No Ferrari's in the garage..

Don,

I wouldn't dismiss everything that's not "the good stuff" as "crap". Some of it surely is, but I'm sure there's a lot of gear out there that is as good as, or nearly as good as your favorite brand, it just isn't "custom fitted".
We have our own criteria for choosing gear. Some people can't afford to buy a fourteen-plus-year suit, but can buy new, safe gear a couple times over during the same time frame. Some may want to update style, color, or size in less time than that. Some want gear they won't feel bad about ruining and having to replace gear if they fall down, as long as it does it's job and protects them.
Some people just don't want to look like a fire engine wearing a snowmobile suit.
There's a lot of confusing information out there now about what's safer than what now, especially concerning helmets, so it's really up to the buyer to decide what they want to believe at this point. Personally, I'll stick with my Arai helmet, simply as a matter of personal preference. I can afford it (and afford to replace it as needed) because I wear mostly non-Aerostitch gear from the neck down. It all fits just fine, and I feel safe in it.
I ride Beemers for the same reason, personal preference. I certainly don't consider them "the good stuff" and the rest "crap", and their price differential is nowhere near as wide as the one between Aerostitch and everyone else.

Bob
P.S. I try to buy American too, but we are both riding German bikes, aren't we?
 
I destroyed $1500 worth of new riding gear last week. Yes it was worth every penny as it kept my hide intact.

I don't mind paying more for function. I won't pay more for something just for the right look or to wear the right lable. Not that style isn't a factor, its just not the top of the list.

+1 The gear is cheaper than the ER. That airflow mesh melts at 850 degrees. BMW has specs for it's armor. Buy the gear, then the bike. It works, It's nice to be standing unhurt cussing at your totaled R1150GS. Did I mention that the sleeve on the airflow jacket was melted on the asphalt?
robert
 
Don,

I wouldn't dismiss everything that's not "the good stuff" as "crap". Some of it surely is, but I'm sure there's a lot of gear out there that is as good as, or nearly as good as your favorite brand, it just isn't "custom fitted".
Bob,

You seem to be assuming I rate "good stuff" by price. I don't. But I've found what works well for a long time is sometimes more costly than other choices, and sometimes not (Hella lights vs PIAA for instance..)

My response was to the original posting, which seem to be a lament about the cost of some riding gear. My basic response is - some of us find the cost vs value to be worth it to us, and we buy the more expensive stuff 'cause it works for us. In my case - I don't like buying stuff, so I try to do it as infrequently as possible - long term satisfaction is a big factor in my decisions on what to buy for gear.
We have our own criteria for choosing gear. Some people can't afford to buy a fourteen-plus-year suit, but can buy new, safe gear a couple times over during the same time frame.
Or they can visit the fleamarket and find people who outgrew their more expensive gear and are selling it. There are some wonderful buys there. RiderWarehouse also has a discount section where lots of the good stuff shows up at a substancial discount. It won't be custom fitted - but if it fits, it's a great buy.

I know of no other gear manufacturer who will custom fit riding gear (at least textile, it's possible some custom leathers places may) - and to get a suit that fits me (think the Penguin in Batman movie sorta shape) - I really have no other choice.

Some may want to update style, color, or size in less time than that.

I have no illusions that style and color will help how I look.. size - well, mine seem to grow tight somehow.. so that is a valid consideration. The thing is - the good stuff often has an excellent resale value, so if you decide the style, color or size isn't working for you - you can resell it for a good portion of what it cost you, making it long term - less expensive than the less expensive stuff (does that make any sense?:dunno )

Some want gear they won't feel bad about ruining and having to replace gear if they fall down, as long as it does it's job and protects them.

Rider Warehouse is one of the few (if not only) protective clothing vendors I know who offers a repair service for their gear. BMW gear - you're outta luck. Dunno on companies like Roadgear and such (who make some excellent gear.. just doesn't fit me..) I've never seen any other company advertise repairs/alternations.
Some people just don't want to look like a fire engine wearing a snowmobile suit.
Whooohoooo.. low blow there.. have you seen me? Fire "engine"? Whooo.. (just kidding I know what you meant to type..):)

There's a lot of confusing information out there now about what's safer than what now, especially concerning helmets, so it's really up to the buyer to decide what they want to believe at this point. Personally, I'll stick with my Arai helmet, simply as a matter of personal preference. I can afford it (and afford to replace it as needed) because I wear mostly non-Aerostitch gear from the neck down. It all fits just fine, and I feel safe in it.

Arai is one of the top-tier and top price helmets - no argument if it works for you. I used to use Nolan helmets, moderate price and great value for the $$$, until I was able to get the Schuburth Concept helmets - better fit and better functionality for me.

I ride Beemers for the same reason, personal preference. I certainly don't consider them "the good stuff" and the rest "crap", and their price differential is nowhere near as wide as the one between Aerostitch and everyone else.

Bob
P.S. I try to buy American too, but we are both riding German bikes, aren't we?
Your point? Given the choice of US made gear and things made in China - I'll try to buy the US made gear if it works for me.

I think it's important to remember - what I expressed were only my opinions. Feel free to ignore them - most people do. It's really a case of YMMV and what fit and works for you - probably doesn't fit me (pear shaped, not fire-engine shaped..)

Have a great day!
 
I've learned - you buy the good stuff once, the crap repeatedly.

My first RoadCrafter lasted me about 14 years - cost $800. Still wearable, but looking a bit worn, and somehow parts of it shrunk over the winter. Cost per year - less than $50.

My new RoadCrafter cost about $1,000 - but that's entirely custom sizing, sleeves, legs, gut, waist - all custom sized for me. It fits wonderfully and makes me look almost human. If I get 14 years from it I'll be very happy (and very old).

I've never tested the crashworthyness, and don't intend to - but I feel better knowing it's there. Same thing on a Shuburth helmet (I'm on my 4th over the course of about 18 years now..) It's the best I could get - does what I want - makes me happy when I wear it - so it's worth every penny.

I'll repeat what I said - you buy the good stuff once - that's what makes it worth the price paid. (And RoadCrafter/RiderWarehouse/AeroStich products are made in the USA - sez so right inside it. That's worth something to me also.)

No Ferrari's in the garage..
My first Roadcrafter 2-piece suit lasted me 16 years and about 200,000 miles. With some repair, it could probably be used again, but I bought a new one piece last fall. I stop by the factory in Duluth for the 10% discount, but it still is about $800. Is it worth it? YES!!!

I have been down in the suit twice. My famous pig sh*t slide in 94 did over $2,000 damage to my almost new K100RS ABS. I was fine. Not even a bruise. Good gear lasts long and is well worth the price. I don't mind letting Andy make some $$ from me because he sells a superior product. And I am known for being CHEAP.

tb
 
I know of no other gear manufacturer who will custom fit riding gear (at least textile, it's possible some custom leathers places may) - and to get a suit that fits me (think the Penguin in Batman movie sorta shape) - I really have no other choice.

Cycleport (Motoport) riding gear is made customized to your measurements.

I've never seen any other company advertise repairs/alternations.
I know that when I needed a replacement zipper, Cycleport had no problems doing that gratis, even though the jacket was out of warranty. If I am not mistaken, they will also rebuild parts of your riding gear if necessary.

When it comes to quality in a riding suit, I am in agreement with Don. You never know when it is going to be needed. When I had a low sided slide at 30 mph on a gravel Colorado road last summer, I had no damage to me and a very slight scrapping on the Cycleport pants. I have worn this pricey Kevlar gear for three seasons and anticipate from its current condition that it has a lot more years of riding to be had. If I make seven more years, it will have cost only about $100 a year; even less if it makes it to Don's Roadcrafter ride of 14 years, which is very possible.

Yes motorcycling accessories often do seem to be pricey, but when it comes to protecting myself for a possible painful skin scrapping/removal and bruising, I feel more comfortable buying what I think is going to give me the best protection regardless of the price. As Don mentioned, there are other options available for riders; it is an individual's choice of the gear they buy and where they buy it; bargains can be had if you shop around.
 
I don't think that the price of gear should have anything to do with quality. There is lots of "less expensive" gear that will do the job it is meant to do just fine. And there is lots of very expensive gear that is no better unless you like paying for an exclusive name.

Yes, good quality armour and materials like kevlar are a good thing and you should look to buy the best "quality" that you can afford. But there is no reason to pay extremely high prices for the equal quality. Now, if you think that just having the BMW name on your jacket, pants or helmet makes it better quality, then go ahead and pay the extra money for it. On the other hand, if you find any item that has the same quality of protection and it fits you well, for less money. Why would you pay more?

Myself, I tried very hard to find a helmet that fits me well. After trying on just about every brand I could find, I found the HJC fit my weird shaped head well and gives me the protection and comfort that I like. There are lots that came close, but none fit as well. The same goes for my boots and gloves. As to my jacket and pants, I could not find what I wanted so had some custom made leathers tailored to fit. And they cost me way less than most of the so called "high end" stuff on the market. The manufacturer has been making custom leather pants and jackets for over 50 years and knows exactly what is needed for protection as well as comfort. Their pricing is extremely reasonable. Current pricing is $700 for the pair, in just about any colour you can think of, but you have to go to Montreal to be fitted.

In some ways it comes down to doing a little reasearch and finding what works best for you. Just because someone else buys something and finds it works well for them does not mean it will work well for you. None of us have the same size and shape of body, and we have to always consider our pocketbook.

In most cases it is not "You get what you pay for". Sure there is cheap crap out there, but there is also way over priced crap as well. A simple example are some boots I purchased that are the classic "Engineer" style. I happened to be travelling thru Ohio and came across a boot manufacturer outlet store. Found these nice boots that fit well and was talking to the sales staff. Found that they also make the same boots for Harley Davidson. The only difference is the little metal Harley Davidson logo on the side, and the price. $100 without the logo, $250 with the logo. Hmmmm. Which ones would you buy?:dunno 8 years later those boots still fit fine and do what I expect them to do.


IMHO, you have do not have to follow all the trends. Get what works best for you.
 
Let me clarify my position. I have spent a thisload of money on my riding gear. My wife and I have summer and cooler weather gear. I have an Arai helmet because it fit the best. I love the airflow jacket and pants. What I am saying is I hated spending so much because in my mind I keep thinking I could get as much safety, fit, style and comfort for less money. All that money could have been spent on something really important......like BEER!

Kelly
 
Let me clarify my position. I have spent a thisload of money on my riding gear. My wife and I have summer and cooler weather gear. I have an Arai helmet because it fit the best. I love the airflow jacket and pants. What I am saying is I hated spending so much because in my mind I keep thinking I could get as much safety, fit, style and comfort for less money. All that money could have been spent on something really important......like BEER!

Kelly

Maybe you could've gotten the same protection for less money. Chinese or Pakistani goods can be made more cheaply than European goods. A lot of people fall off motorcycles wearing "cheap" gear and are able to crow about how they were unhurt...great news. I am happy to buy what I consider the "best available gear," regardless of cost.

Just as insurance is a cost of motorcycle ownership, safety gear is, too. Where I live, a simple ambulance response/ride averages $1,200. A ride in a helicopter is almost four times that much. If you get to ride in either vehicle, those costs are the starting point. All that gear may not save you the ride, but it sure can save a lot of the subsequent costs, not to mention the pain and rehabilitation.

My suit and boots cost about $1800, several years ago (the suit now runs a couple grand, I think). In my case that works out to about 4 cents per mile...so far. The suit should last indefinitely, assuming no crashes and no significant weight change.

Regarding WHY the costs are so high, consider that the clothing is very complex, with perhaps several different layers, perhaps as many as five different types of cloth (talking textile, obviously), is designed to be not only protective but comfortable, often with temperature ranges from the 30s to over 100 degrees, all the while attempting to look reasonably "normal" or fashionable, yet is perhaps one of the lowest-volume-production clothing items one can think of. No wonder it's expensive.

Then of course there is the armor. Poorly made armor can fail to protect, or worse, even injure in a crash...the latter happened to me in a not-very-expensive leather track suit a few years ago.
 
MarkGoodrich, You can get almost anything for less money if it is made outside of the USA or Canada. Our costs to make things are way out of line. That is why a lot of the manufacturering is moving off shore. We all want to pay as little as possible for whatever we buy, but want the best possible quality there is. Hmm, that just does not always work out. But on the otherhand, some things made in less labour expensive countries is actually pretty damn good stuff.

You say you paid $1800 for Boots and riding suit. Me thinks you got ripped. But that is just my honest opinion. I see no reason to spend that kind of money when I can purchase what works for much less. I don't really care about style so much as function. If it works and it fits, and the price is reasonable, then I might buy it. When I am riding, it is all about the riding. I am not in any fashion show. Hell, they would boo and shove me off the catwalk.

Think of safety gear as just that. Would the welder really care if his leather gloves were made by Watson or Armani? Hmm, just think about that for a moment. Watson gloves are tried and true, known to be a good quality heavy duty leather glove that will protect the hand just fine. But Armani is stylish.

If you feel better spending over $2000 for your riding gear, feeling that is better than spending less than $1000. Great. It really does not matter to me. I would rather take the other $1000 and put it in the tank and ride. 40+ years of riding, numerous spills over the years including on the race track. Only hospitalized once in all those years and that was from a crash at well over 100MPH on the track. Never spent that kind of money on riding gear and never will.

:ca
 
why

Do not want to start an oil war,but why does it cost me $50 for oil and a filter for my gs-not including labor.Am i nuts for paying $20 for a filter just because it has those three letters on it?:dunno
 
Purolator Make excellent oil filters. Depending on the model you have, you can usually get your local NAPA auto parts store to order them in on their next shipment of filters. Tell them you will buy 6 at a time and you will usually get and even better deal. The ones for my R100RT have a part number of ML16826 and the last batch of 6 cost me $60 last spring. So $10 each.

I also get my oil there. I run Castrol Grand Prix Motorcycle oil with an SG rating. Usual cost is around $35 for a case of 12 litre bottles. Gives me enough to change oil in all the bikes and a few left over for the next round.

So figuring out the math, oil changes cost me less than $20 for each bike plus a little of my time.

:ca
 
Atgatt

He should have invested a little more on his riding pants........
 

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HAHAHAHA!

I saw that on a Big Bad Harley rider a few years ago. You all know the type. Big ape hanger bars, skull and crossbones, beany cap for a helmet, greasy looking leather jacket with a big "patch" on the back, and chaps with fringes. Both he and his girlfriend wore out the seat of their jeans. I almost lost it, I was laughing so hard inside my helmet. I stopped to see if they needed any ass-istance, but they said that friends were following shortly. Just as I was leaving I saw a few of their friends roar up and they got off laughing at them. Just made my day.
 
This makes your day?

If seeing other motorcyclists who have had an accident and injured makes your day, I truly feel sorry for you.
 
I think what he means is once he realized that there was no serious injury he thought it was funny, as do I. I am often puzzled by the full body suit of leather with the doo rag. Does the doo rag help with road rash. I also find humor in the idiots of the world. Yes I said it "If you choose to ride a bike without the proper protective gear you are an Idiot!"

You sure will not catch me on the streets of Baghdad without my equipment.

Kelly
 
I have a couple of thoughts about gear ...

1) The quality and price doesn't matter if you don't use it. By this I mean who cares how good the gear is if it is too heavy, to bulky, etc. and winds up sitting in your closet when you ride.

2) Price is an issue with me, but I also try and buy the best gear I can afford. Even though I hope I will never need it.

3) Where it is made, doesn't matter to me. Who makes the profits doesn't matter to me. All I care about is how well the gear I purchased will protect me, my passenger, and my family (ever think about your family and what will happen to them if you bite it?).

I say this now because when I was younger I couldn't afford anything but a helmet, gloves, and jeans (jacket too). I had one accident where I hit a piece of wood (4 x 4) in a blind corner and eventually was bounced off my sliding motorcycle. When I hit the ground I vaporized the entire back of the jacket, shirt, and a 4" square patch of skin. I was lucky as I could have died that day (I slide in to oncoming traffic and then choose to roll away form them).

I now have three different sets of riding gear. All for different weather conditions. It basically goes like this ...

Mesh (Firtgear pants & HG jacket) for 85+ degree weather.

Mesh & textile (Olympia) for 65 ~ 85 degree weather.

Textile jacket with liner and BMW City Jeans for cooler weather. The jacket can dump the liner and has a few vents, but I really don't wear it unless the temps are below 70 or I will ride at night.

I consider all the gear throwaway/disposable gear. Meaning, if it works to save my body from impact/abrasion and is damaged beyond repair then I will still consider that it did its job. Same with helmets. One good hard hit/slide and it's time for a new helmet.
 
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