We do own this site....right?

jdmetzger said:

Right now we're trying to enforce prohibition and we're seeing it not work - and I think the threads "walking the line" are doing no service to either viewpoint (pro or con). It's also putting an extra burden on the forum law enforcement.

Click to expand...

If by "no service" you mean a diservice I agree. Lack of a decision up or down is resulting in taunting on sides, hijacking of various threads to dubious purposes and in general contributing to the rancor on the forum.

Change is a theme in this yearÔÇÖs elections. Governments do not start change the institutionalize it. The people start it.

On this forum, like it or not, a wide range of topics are coming up. Members want to talk to fellow members about them because they are of interest to them, they are geographically separated and they have developed these friendships online and in many cases reinforce them at the national rally or other events.

Will this remain the wild west or will the organization catch up with the members in some way?

Be careful of what you wish for you just might get it. Right now no side in this is getting what they wished for.

GregFeeler said:

Josh,
Let's back up to a higher level view - and questions. With all the other forums available on the Internet, why should the BMW MOA have one? What's the value to you of *this* forum in particular? Would one of the top reasons be to add value to a membership? If you were paying for something, would you have higher expectations than if you got it for free? Would the expectations of other "paying customers" have greater weight as well?

These are serious questions. Without a clear purpose and mission for this forum, discussions about it are doomed to disagree, and comparisons to other forums won't be much more useful than comparing touring bikes to dual-sports for road-racing purposes.

Click to expand...

While Greg, you know my feelings on this, others may not.

I probably have been the Mod most responsible in the last several months for being the "Politics police". It's a funny place for me to be. My job is to enforce a policy that Josh and myself and several others have petitioned to have changed (the Tavern Proposal). As a Mod, while the rules are what they are, I will abide by them and if neccessary, enforce (I detest that word) them. But as you know, I don't agree with them.

As the election draws nearer, and situations like the recent conflict between Russia and Georgia occur, and the economy goes haywire, I want to discuss those things with people I respect and know. It's also interesting to hear the opinions of folks I don't know from all over this country and the world.

That is the folks on this forum. When a person joins a club, part of the reason is to develop relationships within that clubs community. Those relationships or friendships are some of the people we grow to respect and engage in meaningful conversation. For someone in the MOA to not be able to have those discussions with folks we have met here delutes those relationships.

Saying there are other forums to discuss these things is like saying go talk to your other friends about that, your not welcome here. And so some will leave. Somehow telling folks to go elsewhere seems counterproductive to club growth.

Will these type of discussions require extra effort to manage? Absolutely. Is the ability to foster greater relationships in the MOA, and offer something that appeals to many folks (as evidenced by how often it comes up and the number of different posters who bring it up) worth finding a way to do it? Again, I think absolutely.

Anyway, you asked the question of Josh and I assume the rest of the membership why that type of forum would add value. You have heard my thoughts before so I will go back to lurking and moderating.

And don't forget everybody, until a time comes when the rules do change, the Forum guidelines remain the same so please don't turn this discussion to politics.

In my experience with projects in real life and in reading about them the most effort, expense and project failures are experienced trying to attain the last 20% of the project.

Effort is defined by the attempt to attain the vision that originally defined the project while ignoring changes in the world of the project.

Expenses can be defined in time and materials.

As a manager I had to deal with the last issue, when to take something to market. Failure in this case was experienced in two ways. The product didnÔÇÖt work in the market. The product was obsolete because the market had been moved by other products that came out before ours.

The desire to have a Tavern type forum that will last the ages is laudable. From what I have seen of the proposal more than 80% of the goal is achieved.

Such a forum is dynamic by nature and so the effort to achieve the last 20% of the vision seems misspent and better put into efforts to addressing issues of dealing with the dynamic nature of what is being created rather than the proposal itself. IMHO

I urge the product be brought to ÔÇÿmarket.ÔÇÖ

Finally no matter what side of the issue you are on the failure to do so is become more damaging than a decision up or down.

Yes that is me. haha.

Ready for more:

Well it has been a great two weeks home. Tomorrow I will be flying out to start my journey back to Iraq. I have as of today logged 1567 miles on the RT. About 500 of them with my wife riding with me. It was another beautiful day today 75 degrees, sunny I rode across Mt. Magazine down to Hot Springs and back around home the long way. Once I get back to Taji and have nothing but time on my hands. I will be working to try to convince the Mods and this site that we should be able to have discussions on any topic that people are interested in, including politics.

Kelly

ARValkguy said:

Well it has been a great two weeks home. Tomorrow I will be flying out to start my journey back to Iraq. I have as of today logged 1567 miles on the RT. About 500 of them with my wife riding with me. It was another beautiful day today 75 degrees, sunny I rode across Mt. Magazine down to Hot Springs and back around home the long way. Once I get back to Taji and have nothing but time on my hands. I will be working to try to convince the Mods and this site that we should be able to have discussions on any topic that people are interested in, including politics.

Kelly

Click to expand...

No, no no. please anything but THAT!!

Hey, seriously, glad you had a good 2 weeks of freedom, family and riding; may you see many more such days....

RM

Be safe man! We pray for you guys every night.

xp8103 said:

Be safe man! We pray for you guys every night.

Click to expand...

+1

Ok. How funny was that?? Kelly posts something about McCain and the debate, MOA site sends me a subscription note with the context of his post but then the post gets deleted. Interesting.

Good try Kelly!!

username said:

we'll watch the thread and the folks that can't tell the difference will have their posts deleted.

Click to expand...

That's a lot of work to dump on volunteers. Trust me. A lot.

--chiba

I know I probably missed it somewhere because there are 316 posts in this thread, but I'd like to know who really owns this site and get a grasp of what they will allow....

The registered owner of "bmwmoa.org" BMW Motorcycle Owners Of America Inc. So someone needs to go to Ellisville,MO go to the tax office and post here who owns this site,,,it takes 2 people to incorporate, but only 1 actual owner.... Then collectively we can voice the desire for a more robust topic site to vent our views while still being in the BMWMOA world.....

I'm quite sure its already been posted who actually owns this I just don't recall it being posted.... Besides I'll bet their rich too .............Pete

petepeterson said:

I know I probably missed it somewhere because there are 316 posts in this thread, but I'd like to know who really owns this site and get a grasp of what they will allow....

The registered owner of "bmwmoa.org" BMW Motorcycle Owners Of America Inc. So someone needs to go to Ellisville,MO go to the tax office and post here who owns this site,,,it takes 2 people to incorporate, but only 1 actual owner.... Then collectively we can voice the desire for a more robust topic site to vent our views while still being in the BMWMOA world.....

I'm quite sure its already been posted who actually owns this I just don't recall it being posted.... Besides I'll bet their rich too .............Pete

Click to expand...

It's registered and owned by the club.

Originally Posted by petepeterson
I know I probably missed it somewhere because there are 316 posts in this thread, but I'd like to know who really owns this site and get a grasp of what they will allow....

Click to expand...

KBasa said:

It's registered and owned by the club.

Click to expand...

And you can find what is allowed at the top of the thread list in every forum, in the thread "Posting Guidelines"