• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

No Synthetic Oil Until 10k??

:confused: So . . . your opinion is that Mobil 1 V-Twin is intentionally formulated to be LESS capable than the other Mobil 1 engine oils (even though it has the highest ZDDP content)? Other than your speculation that V-Twin was "very specifically formulated" for H-D engines and therefore the oil doesn't need to be as robust (as opposed to, say, this is all a marketing ploy), do you have ANY objective evidence to support your claim? :rolleyes

Re-read my post, carefully. I never claimed, nor do I believe, that Mobil 1 V-Twin synthetic is in any way "less capable". In fact, I think it's the best thing since sliced bread...for a Harley Twin-Cam. M1 V-Twin originally hit the market before H-D started selling their own synthetic oil, and the first retail outlet for the oil was the H-D dealer network. The point of my post, and I apologize if I did not make my meaning clear, was that the oil requirements of the Boxer in my RT probably share more in common with a liquid-cooled car engine than with an air-cooled Harley! Hell, there are probably several people on this forum who have been very successfully running M1 V-Twin in their Beemers and are happy as clams because, though it wasn't formulated specifically for our Boxers, it is very good oil. In a way, I'm now a bit sorry that I even posted on this subject as I have come to the same conclusion that many here have: As long as you've got good, clean oil of the proper rating in your Beemer, you're not going to have any problems with your engine, short of a non-oil-related mechanical failure. And, we probably do spend way too much time on this subject.

As far as mechanical (needle/roller/ball) bearings being "harder on oil" than plain bearings, I don't buy it. While it's true that at each moving point of contact in a mechanical bearing there exists a greater load per unit of area, it is a rolling point of contact and so causes almost no friction and, therefore, almost no heat. There are millions of two-stroke engines out there running long and hard with no dedicated oiling systems whatsoever because their mechanical bearings get what little lubrication they require from the slight amount of oil mist wafting through the crankcase along with the intake mixture. On the other hand, lab tests (some performed at the facility where I work) have shown quite clearly that if you spin a bare crank (no rods/pistons, chains, cams, etc.) in its plain, pressure-fed bearings using an electric motor, considerable heat is generated in the bearings due to the shearing action taking place in the oil between the crank and the bearing shells.

The engine's mechanical oil pump adds even more heat to the oil, not from compressing the oil, but from oil shear that takes place due to internal leakage through the necessary internal clearances in the pump. Of course, since most modern engines have oil pumps, this factor is a "wash"...
 
Re-read my post, carefully. I never claimed, nor do I believe, that Mobil 1 V-Twin synthetic is in any way "less capable". In fact, I think it's the best thing since sliced bread...for a Harley Twin-Cam. M1 V-Twin originally hit the market before H-D started selling their own synthetic oil, and the first retail outlet for the oil was the H-D dealer network. The point of my post, and I apologize if I did not make my meaning clear, was that the oil requirements of the Boxer in my RT probably share more in common with a liquid-cooled car engine than with an air-cooled Harley! Hell, there are probably several people on this forum who have been very successfully running M1 V-Twin in their Beemers and are happy as clams because, though it wasn't formulated specifically for our Boxers, it is very good oil.

OK, I reread your originally post . . . several times. If you are not saying Mobil 1 V-Twin is "less capable" (than other Mobil 1 engine oils?), then you must be saying that the V-Twin "special formulation" for H-D engines makes it inappropriate for a BMW engine. Correct? If correct, what do you think the "special formulation" is, and what do you think "formulated specifically for our Boxers" means (BMW oil, Mobil 1, or any other brand)?

I think what you will find is that in the various Mobil 1 engines oils, the basestock oil is roughly the same, although they have different viscosity ranges (of course), and that the differences in the auto vs. motocycle oils have to do with the friction modifiers for wet clutch service and the ZDDP content for antiwear properties (e.g., for valve train components). If you have some other insight into "special formulation", please let us know.

As for roller bearings vs. plain bearings and relative oil requirements, that wasn't my post.
 
:banghead :banghead :banghead OK...one last try, and then I'm done posting on oil-related threads. Thank you for so thoroughly teaching me this lesson:stick .

I wasn't comparing M1 V-Twin to other Mobil synthetics, or too any other oil, for that matter. The original poster was running M1 V-Twin in his Harley and was considering running it in his Beemer as well. Like the blithering idiot that I so obviously am, I thought I'd point out (just as a point to consider, mind you) that M1 V-Twin was originally targeted specifically at owners of H-D Big Twins and Sportsters as those engines are a bit different in their oil requirements. I do not think that the engineers at Mobil Oil ever sat down at a meeting and said "hey, we really should come out with a crappy, less capable oil for all those stupid Harley owners". I do think that they sat down at a meeting and said "hey, those air-cooled V twins with all the mechanical bearings in them really have some special requirements. Why don't we see if we can come up with good synthetic oil that will do a better job for them"? And they did. And it's wonderful stuff too, probably the best oil available for an air-cooled H-D. That's all I was trying to say, and if I was unclear about it, I'm truly very sorry. If he, or anyone else, wants to use M1 V-Twin in some other engine configuration then by all means, go nuts and God bless. It's good enough oil that they'll probably have great luck with it, even though they'll be using it in an application for which it was not originally intended.

For the record, I've been using Mobil 1 synthetic oil in all my cars and trucks since it first came on the market around 1970, and have always had great luck with it.

Also, I do realize that the whole "plain vs mechanical bearing" thing was not your baby. I should have figured out by now how to post a reply with more than one quote in it, but I haven't. I regret that, as a result, my post made it appear that I was laying that on you as well. I did not intend to do so.
 
OK...one last try, and then I'm done posting on oil-related threads. Thank you for so thoroughly teaching me this lesson.

I wasn't comparing M1 V-Twin to other Mobil synthetics, or too any other oil, for that matter. The original poster was running M1 V-Twin in his Harley and was considering running it in his Beemer as well. Like the blithering idiot that I so obviously am, I thought I'd point out (just as a point to consider, mind you) that M1 V-Twin was originally targeted specifically at owners of H-D Big Twins and Sportsters as those engines are a bit different in their oil requirements. I do not think that the engineers at Mobil Oil ever sat down at a meeting and said "hey, we really should come out with a crappy, less capable oil for all those stupid Harley owners". I do think that they sat down at a meeting and said "hey, those air-cooled V twins with all the mechanical bearings in them really have some special requirements. Why don't we see if we can come up with good synthetic oil that will do a better job for them"? . . . It's good enough oil that they'll probably have great luck with it, even though they'll be using it in an application for which it was not originally intended.

You seem to think I am attacking you, or criticizing you, and I am not . . . really.

However, your posts seem to be stating . . . or suggesting . . . or offering for consideration (whatever description you want to use), that somehow since Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50 is "specially formulated" for H-D engines it may be inappropriate for BMW motorcycle engines. I am not trying to defend Mobil 1 oil (no need to), but rather I have only been asking you WHY you think this "H-D" Mobil 1 may be inappropriate for BMW motorcycle engines, so we can all better understand your post. If you don't have any reasons other than "I don't know what is different about it, but there might be something different, so I'm not taking the chance", then OK, just say so and we can all move on. But if you have some objective reasons, then let us all know. We're sharing information here. My posts noted that the differences in V-Twin Mobil 1 (other than its higher price!) are a 20w-50 viscosity, higher ZDDP content than other Mobil 1 oils, and maybe some improved high temperature stability (for that rear H-D cylinder). All those things sounds like good properties to have in your BMW engine oil, unless there is something else "bad" in the V-Twin formulation. I don't know what that might be, so I am asking you if you know of anything.

If I were to post that I am not going to use BMW brand 15w-50 synthetic engine oil in my air-cooled Moto Guzzi V-Twin because that BMW oil is "specially formulated" for BMW engines (I mean, it says "BMW" right on the label), I think other people should rightly ask me WHY I think that.
 
Last edited:
I was planning on using Mobil 1 in my '07 R1200R as soon as the dealer "600 mile" service was done. I was going to use the 10w40 XT4 or what ever it is currently called, until I read my owner's manual and saw the 10w40 was only good to temperatures below 85F. This led me to the 20w50 "V-Twin" oil. Once I read the excellent oil test report from Amsoil, I concludes that "V-Twin" tracked all of the wear properties of XT4, but slightly better, as would be consistent with a higher viscosity oil. You got to get past the name.
 
I was planning on using Mobil 1 in my '07 R1200R as soon as the dealer "600 mile" service was done.

Some others here disagree, but during the warranty period I would NOT use any oil that does have the BMW-specified SAE classification, which I think is SG/SH, even if you think (or know) the other oil is just as good or better.

I was going to use the 10w40 XT4 or what ever it is currently called, until I read my owner's manual and saw the 10w40 was only good to temperatures below 85F. This led me to the 20w50 "V-Twin" oil. Once I read the excellent oil test report from Amsoil, I concludes that "V-Twin" tracked all of the wear properties of XT4, but slightly better, as would be consistent with a higher viscosity oil. You got to get past the name.

Yes, following your owner's manual on oil viscosity. Another Mobil 1 oil to consider for dry clutch motorcycles is the 15w-50 "auto" oils (standard and EP). Both have 1200 ppm ZDDP, compared to the current eco oils at about 800 ppm and V-Twin and XT4 at 1600 ppm. V-Twin costs $2 to $3 more per quart than the 15w-50s.

Yes, it's not what name is written on the label, it's what oil and additives are inside the container!
 
Last edited:
Well, I already did it. Changed at 4400 miles to Mobil 1 V-Twin and then at 10,400 with the same. Filter changes both times.I'm not using a measurable amount of oil between the changes.
 
Well, I already did it. Changed at 4400 miles to Mobil 1 V-Twin and then at 10,400 with the same. Filter changes both times.I'm not using a measurable amount of oil between the changes.

I think you have a fine oil in your R1200R. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50 is exactly what is in my 1995 R1100RS . . . but then my bike is out of warranty, so no potential warranty claim issues between BMW and me about not using an SG/SH oil in my bike.
 
Is it all this complicated? should I just hang it up? Does the oil in anyone's hex or oilhead Beemer actually stay in the engine long enough for it to be a factor?

Heck, I go in to Wal-Mart and grab a bottle of 20-w50 castrol. Its not like its going to be there long enough to break down.

Don't I just warm up the engine (I do this by riding it, call me crazy) and when I stop for gas I put it on the center stand and pray to the pavement. If the oil is lower than the little gidgie in the middle of the glass, I put some in.

I have the on board computer gidgie, too. I drive about 30 minutes and it tells me to add oil (OK, thats an embellishment) So, I'm belt and suspenders.

My airhead never burned any oil. I used 15w50 mobil extended performance in case I wanted it for extended performance/

I'm a little jealous. I wanted the new GS so I sold my Rockster to a friend just when it was ceasing to burn oil. I used the 15w50 synth in it to (cuz I got a bunch of it real cheap)

Life is complicated enough, engine oil (really) is not.
 
Back
Top