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Head count for 08

Different people expect/do different things at an (Inter)National Rally. I have attended every one since 1984 except 1993 in Moodus when I had just changed jobs and had zero vacation. I seldom do much riding once the rally starts - but usually take the long way-good roads to and from the rally.

This year was no different. We arrived Monday evening and spent Tuesday and Wednesday helping with Camp GEARS. We left the rally site only to go shopping for food for the GEARS campers.

Thursday I prowled the vendors, bought several "essentials" to replace stuff I wore out (boots, helmet) and attended a couple of seminars. Friday I presented 5-1/2 hours of seminars, and another hour or so answering questions after the seminars were over. Saturday I spent from 8:00 a.m until about 1:00 a.m as a judge for the K Bike Koncours. I spent a little time listening to the music and having a beer or so on Friday and Saturday nights.

Not a lot of time for exploring greater metropolitan downtown Gillette. But the ride to the rally, approaching from the west was dynamite - 16, 14, 14A, Yellowstone, Lolo Pass, and more. (We went to Alaska before the rally).

At the same time, I know folks who used the rally as a base for riding the good roads. Short trip to Devils Tower, middle sized trip to the Black Hills and Custer Park, long ride to and from Beartooth Pass. The three days were pretty well consumed riding.

Different people. Two different rallies. And lots of possibilities in between.

The biggest problem Gillette posed was for those riders who were 1,200 to 1,500 miles away and are used to 250 mile days in congested regions with a choice of a dreadful interstate or a village every 8 miles. Many couldn't even imagine the distances in the west, let alone experience them. Too bad! They missed a good rally.
 
In terms of attendance, I think you have to go back to circa 1993 to find a less-attended MOA rally than Gillette. Location, lack of BMW dealer-support, and no impressive proximity riding (Hundreds of miles away roundtrip, i.e. Devil's Tower, Yellowstone, Rushmore, etc. doesn't really count) all contributed to a rally that we can learn from and improve.

Given the low number of members that take the time to contribute on the forum, I agree with you that 'internet discussion' can hardly be made out to be the villain here.

I like your idea of a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday rally! Though I am retired and could accomodate any schedule, many members need to combine travel time with actual rally attendance, and your concept of a week's vacation allowing for both is interesting. Too late for '09 and probably '10, but I hope the Rally Selection Committee picks up on this suggestion and gives it some study.

Nice thinking 'outside the box.'

GREAT idea, so we will never see it. Guess I'll have to wait for a rally to come back this way or hit the power ball and retire early.
 
Rally Site

My two cents worth on the rally: Yes the numbers were down from last year and yes there were fewer venders and fewer dining choices but the bottom line for me was that the riding was incredible!! It was not that far from the great rides in South Dakota or Devil's Tower. The ride to Sheridan to the Bighorn Mountains and then through Tensleep Canyon was the best ride of my motorcycling career! I was a happy man with all the riding choices available.

I rode 2000 miles each way to and from the rally and added another 1000 miles while there and still had time to watch Skert pick up a downed 1200RT, catch an excellent presentation by Helen Twowheels on riding alone and to visit with friends. I spent $500 on gas and $160 on a tent at Ted Mayberry's Sherpa tent village. Except for the storm Thursday night (or was it Friday) the weather was a lot like last year, not a big deal.

I hope the rally committee will continue to look for locations that provide opportunities for us to visit all areas of the country. Breaking attendance records should not be our goal.

Dan Peace
 
Fredericksburg, Texas. Everyone obsessed about how hot it was going to be, the bad riding . . . . blah blah. Small attendance that year - less than 5,000 as I recall. (was that 1996?)

The Hill country of Texas was delightful, the weather ideal, and for the 5,000 of us who went, it was wonderful!

and with those odds, I STILL didn't win a bike. sigh.

Pity you didn't win a bike. As hard as you worked on last year's rally, you deserve one.

I agree that rallies are not about setting new attendance records. It's about offering as much as possible to those who do choose to attend, and of course, 'knowing' what they want is not always a given.

West Bend was an outstanding rally in my opinion.

Gillette suffered from location. Like we didn't see that coming.
 
Gillette suffered from location. Like we didn't see that coming.

And Greenwald, we still don't, you speak in inaccurate generalizations.. Many, many people went to Gillette without the negitive blinders you wear, and had a great time because of the location. You personally had a bad time.

The location was different, but at risk of repeating myself from a previous post in this thread, show me a ride out of Westbend, that even stands close to the beauty, the grand of Wyoming. I don't buy that your motorcycle and your butt couldnt handle a 60 mile ride or a 100 mile ride; many of us commute further than that each day!

I and many others felt this rally, Wyoming, and the physical location of the facility in the Gillette worked out just great. Hopefully Tennessee meets your stringent qualifications; I don't think I could take another year of persistant bitching about the location.
 
As was noted, Vermont is central to large population centers and has great riding and uncrowded roads.

I believe Gillette was down simply because of location. Its a longggg way from anywhere. There are many who will ride to where ever the rally is located, but then there are many club members who don't have the time to ride that far. I agree that moving the rally around is great, but I also think having it closer to centers/pockets of the club members would generate more interest and attendance to the rally. And I really don't think the discussion of the benefits/faults of the Gillette location on this forum had much if any impact on attendance.

I also believe if the rally were held Tues-Thurs, that attendance would increase. With that schedule, it mean that members have a full 3 days to travel both before and after the rally and still stay the full 3 days of the rally. So a week of vacation time allows for a great week of riding and Beemers.

Brian

I second you on the Tues-Thurs rally. With only one week vacation in the summer months, it sure would be nice to have the extra days to go to and from the rally. I had to borrow on next year's vacation to make the Gillette rally.
 
I'd like to attend next year's rally in Gray, Tn., but it will be the same situation, leaving Sat. So while I'll have 5 days to get there and can enjoy the trip, getting home means leaving the rally early, so I'm on the fence as to whether I'll attend.
but think of all the riding on the way! there won't be 500 yards of flat land from here to there and back. i'm excited already.

i didn't go to gilette because it was so far and because i would have had to go more or less the same direction as i went to west bend, and i really didn't enjoy that ride all that much. too flat. the riding in wyoming itself meant little to me. when i'm at the rally, i stay AT the rally to enjoy all the bikes and things, not to go riding around the area so much.
 
And Greenwald, we still don't, you speak in inaccurate generalizations.. Many, many people went to Gillette without the negitive blinders you wear, and had a great time because of the location. You personally had a bad time.

The location was different, but at risk of repeating myself from a previous post in this thread, show me a ride out of Westbend, that even stands close to the beauty, the grand of Wyoming. I don't buy that your motorcycle and your butt couldnt handle a 60 mile ride or a 100 mile ride; many of us commute further than that each day!

I and many others felt this rally, Wyoming, and the physical location of the facility in the Gillette worked out just great. Hopefully Tennessee meets your stringent qualifications; I don't think I could take another year of persistant bitching about the location.

:thumb

The single biggest factor in rally attendance appears to be proximity to population. How many people live within 500 miles of the Vermont rally? I'd bet more than 50 million. There may not be much more than 2% of that within 500 miles of Gillette. Considering the distances, the attendance was pretty damn good.

More than any rally I've had the pleasure of attending (admittedly, not that many), this was a riding rally. People were telling stories of the amazing places they'd ridden and were going to ride because of where the rally was. Some did a little of it in the few days of the rally, most did it on the way to and from. I know I enjoyed the location.
 
Vermont is inside of 500 miles from NYC, Boston, Baltimore, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, PA, Montreal and a whole lot of people.

We also put some extra effort into attracting first timers from these areas.

Between the concentration of riders within 500 or 1000 miles and our efforts to attract rally virgins we shattered the record.

I think Gillette was down due to the economy and to some degree our very own forum.

I don't think our forum does as much as we'd like to believe. :D
 
And Greenwald, we still don't, you speak in inaccurate generalizations.. Many, many people went to Gillette without the negitive blinders you wear, and had a great time because of the location. You personally had a bad time.

The location was different, but at risk of repeating myself from a previous post in this thread, show me a ride out of Westbend, that even stands close to the beauty, the grand of Wyoming. I don't buy that your motorcycle and your butt couldnt handle a 60 mile ride or a 100 mile ride; many of us commute further than that each day!

I and many others felt this rally, Wyoming, and the physical location of the facility in the Gillette worked out just great. Hopefully Tennessee meets your stringent qualifications; I don't think I could take another year of persistant bitching about the location.

Given the attendance, weather, revenue and post-rally commentary, West Bend hardly needs defending. Sue and her crew (along with Mother Nature) did a fantastic job.

All of the WY locations you flaunt are not within 50 (and sometimes, not within hundreds) of miles of rally central. As for West Bend, you had access to the Kettle Moraine twisties and Rustic Roads well before you ventured 50 miles from the Washington Co. Fairgrounds. Thus ends the geography lesson for today.

I wear neither blinders nor rose-colored glasses. I see with a critical eye, enjoy life and feel that if improvement is needed, to speak out, as do you.

Relax - I have no motivation to critique the TN location for '09, anymore than many of the 'faithful' declared Gillette a success the moment it was announced a year ago. I didn't think Gillette was a wise choice. But in fairness, I went to see for myself.

I have already ridden the Smokies many times and look forward to this location for the 37th BMW MOA Rally.

Location, Location, Location.
 
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Given the attendance, weather, revenue and post-rally commentary, West Bend hardly needs defending. Sue and her crew (along with Mother Nature) did a fantastic job.

All of the WY locations you flaunt are not within 50 (and sometimes, not within hundreds) of miles of rally central. As for West Bend, you had access to the Kettle Moraine twisties and Rustic Roads well before you ventured 50 miles from the Washington Co. Fairgrounds. Thus ends the geography lesson for today.

I wear neither blinders nor rose-colored glasses. I see with a critical eye, enjoy life and feel that if improvement is needed, to speak out, as do you. Relax - I have no right to critique the TN location for '09, anymore than many of the 'faithful' declared Gillette a success the moment it was announced a year ago. I didn't think Gillette was a wise choice. Even so, I went to see for myself.

I have already ridden the Smokies many times and look forward to this location for the 37th BMW MOA Rally.

Location, Location, Location.

At least we agree on one thing; West Bend was a fantastic Rally.

Where we differ is I ride to ride; from your comments, I get the picture you ride for destination. Wyoming was just too much state for you! My guess is you never ventured out the rallly gate, never rode the 60 miles to the bighorns, never rode the short hop to devils tower. You missed the boat! Sorry Greenwald, the few miles of twisties surrounding Westbend does not even stand on the same platform as the majestic rides you had an opportunityto ride in Wyoming! Wake up! you missed the boat!

Westbend was fantastic, but was a different rally, and had different objectives in mind in terms of its overall intrinsic value. All I am saying and what astounds me is your unwaivering belief that Wyoming was a bad rally. Give it up! both Rally's were fantastic, and I am already excited about TN!

Revenue is not the bottom line. BMWMOA Rally is not in this world to meet your monetary performance standards, but to provide a huge variety of locations/of experiences for the members to enjoy. If we were to follow your reasoning, the door of future rally locations should be shut and shut tight using the Mississippi as a boundary.
 
We have only missed one Rally since 89 and always enjoy the West ones better as the East ones involve riding through a lot of traffic congestion and it is usually hotter. The West can be hot but it cools off at night, the air is fresher, the sky is bigger and the West just has the allure of Go West young man. Out West you can get on some roads and have very little traffic even if they may not be as curvey as we would like. We thought Gillette was wonderful; we stayed in a motel so the camping conditions didn't concern us. We have been through the area numerous times but enjoyed the Black Hills etc. again. We try to enjoy each year and if we had to pick between Gillette and Tennesse or West Bend or Lima we would pick Gillette but nothing happens we will be in Tennesse next year.
 
We have only missed one Rally since 89 and always enjoy the West ones better as the East ones involve riding through a lot of traffic congestion and it is usually hotter. The West can be hot but it cools off at night, the air is fresher, the sky is bigger and the West just has the allure of Go West young man. Out West you can get on some roads and have very little traffic even if they may not be as curvey as we would like. We thought Gillette was wonderful; we stayed in a motel so the camping conditions didn't concern us. We have been through the area numerous times but enjoyed the Black Hills etc. again. We try to enjoy each year and if we had to pick between Gillette and Tennesse or West Bend or Lima we would pick Gillette but nothing happens we will be in Tennesse next year.

I think you might like East Tennessee. I was camping this week about 70 miles from Gray and woke up to 53 degrees. The weather seldom gets above the mid 80s-90 in the daytime. We have little traffic around here and you might think you are in the sticks.
 
Well redclfco We do agree that West Bend was a good Rally.

After that, you and I are a universe apart on too many issues.

You have no idea WHY I ride, what I did in or around Gillette, what I expect of a rally, etc., etc., etc.

We don't need to waste space on this Forum being at odds, so I shall execute a graceful exit.

Gillette is now part of the MOA history. How it will be judged is as yet an unwritten chapter.

Ride Safe!
 
I've never been to a BMW rally I didn't like. I think the rally is really the people. Some venues may test you but the people make it work. Tireless chair persons, volunteers, and all the rally goers.
And the ride...even if it is across the plains...there is always a story or a memory from every mile.
 
At least we agree on one thing; West Bend was a fantastic Rally.

Where we differ is I ride to ride; from your comments, I get the picture you ride for destination. Wyoming was just too much state for you! My guess is you never ventured out the rallly gate, never rode the 60 miles to the bighorns, never rode the short hop to devils tower. You missed the boat! Sorry Greenwald, the few miles of twisties surrounding Westbend does not even stand on the same platform as the majestic rides you had an opportunityto ride in Wyoming! Wake up! you missed the boat!

Westbend was fantastic, but was a different rally, and had different objectives in mind in terms of its overall intrinsic value. All I am saying and what astounds me is your unwaivering belief that Wyoming was a bad rally. Give it up! both Rally's were fantastic, and I am already excited about TN!

Revenue is not the bottom line. BMWMOA Rally is not in this world to meet your monetary performance standards, but to provide a huge variety of locations/of experiences for the members to enjoy. If we were to follow your reasoning, the door of future rally locations should be shut and shut tight using the Mississippi as a boundary.

+1 :drink
 
Having the maximum attendance is not the most important issue. It is the ride. While the Gillette location had some issues, it was in a cool location for side trips.

For us, it was the trip there and back. On the way, we rode in Nevada, Utah and Wyoming, finding great, uncrowded and scenic riding all along the way. On the way back, we dropped down to Colorado, then up through Utah, into Wyoming, then over through Idaho to Oregon and down into California. Yeah, the riding around Gillette didn't pull me off site, but, to be honest, I'm pretty busy at the rally and don't usually get out much.

But, man, the trip there and back was terrific. We camped in Estes Park, spent a night in Glenwood Springs, camped outside Flaming Gorge, camped near Jackson Hole, spent time riding the mountains in Colorado and had a couple great days of riding in Idaho and western Wyoming.

What Wyoming offered was a terminus for our trip, complete with friends and partying.
 
GREAT idea, so we will never see it. Guess I'll have to wait for a rally to come back this way or hit the power ball and retire early.

Mid week rallies are problematic for those of us that live on the coasts. For example, if a rally goes from Thursday to Sunday and is on the east coast, I have about 5 or 6 days to get there and a bit more than a week to get home. If it's midweek, on a Tuesday through Friday schedule, I have 3 or 4 days to cross the country and 2 days to get home, unless I want to be out for portions of three consecutive weeks. That can be a hassle for many.
 
I had a blast at this rally, We spent three days riding in SD, ND and Montana. We rode the Black Hills, The Badlands, Devils Tower and Three Center of the USA sites ( see thread under ride reports. )
I volunteered the Thursday evening IBMWR Beer Garden and spent Friday on a 650 mile loop to Bear Tooth Pass and back.

My only regret is I didn't socialize as much as I wanted to, the Woodfords is unopened :(

Great Job, Great Rally.
 
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