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'09 F650GS twin

Thank You Paul! I really am trying to laugh about this BMW Motorrad AG Sales Fiasco!

Brother Paul, Would you mind sending me a post at work and home if you do take delivery of your F650GS Twin tomorrow? Our AZ Beemers had its monthly get together tire kicking and BS'ing session at Wild Wings in Gilbert, AZ last night.

Once again, like usual, par for the couse, ad nauseum, etctera, etcetera: Ongoing topic of just when North America will see the F800GS or Twin reared its ugly head!

Home: beemerdons@aol.com Work: dstanley@metromechanical.com Many Thanks
 
My wife ordered a new 650Gs three weeks ago and were told she would get it in 6 to 8 weeks; we could have had one the dealer was getting but didn't want red or silver; we wanted blue. We saw them at the rally in Gillette but didn't ride one. We were hoping our dealer would get one this week and we would go ride it this Saturday. She is going to call them Friday afternoon and see.
 
riders: If you would please, also send me an e-mail if you take delivery of the bike!

riders: If you would please note my two e-mail addresses above in my post to Paul it would be appreciated. Certainly would be interested if your wife gets hers.

On August 1, BMW of Scottsdale was supposed to be getting delivery of 2 Twins.

One was a blue standard height GS and the other a red low suspension F650GS.

My friend & co-rider, Jane Marbach, is ahead of me on the wait list for these bikes.

If Jane wants the blue standard height, then I'm now on the wait list for a silver.

If Jane elects to go with the red low suspension bike, I will buy the blue standard.


This has got to be so unbearable for the BMW Dealers in North America's market!!

They have bike customers standing in line to throw money at them at full list price.

BMW is a gang that can't shoot straight. If only KTM 690 ADV bike was available!
 
Will call if I hear anything from my dealer. but as of today:

Sein_soup_nazi.jpg

8/14/2008 - No F650GS for you!
 
Why can't MOA help

You would think that with as many members as the MOA has they would take an active roll on our behalf in finding out information on when bikes (read 2009 F650gs) will be released etc. My bike has been on order for several months and I just will not bother my dealer to find out when it will be there. MOA could step up once in awhile and due the members a service by acting as a liason for members and for that matter the dealer network we hold so dear.
And while I am at it MOA how about listing recalls on the bikes. The motorcycle consumer news does it why don't you help us stay informed and safe.

Lifetime member
Bruce
 
IIRC, BMW has said for a while now that the first bikes will be launched in the U.S. in September. :dunno
 
The ad states: :deal

* Year:2009
* Make:BMW
* Model:F650GS
* Location:Marietta, GA
* Type:Motorcycle
* Mileage: 15


Unless BMW sends them all out w/ 15 miles on 'em! :whistle

BMW sort of does. :D That mileage isn't unusual for a brand new BMW's and I bet they list it to deal with the occasional customer that grills them on why the supposedly new bike doesn't come into their hands with the odometer reading 00000. The dealer uncrates the bike, does any needed prep and assemble, and then takes it out for a prescribed ride. If you find a new BMW with 0 miles on it, something unusual is going on.

They may in fact have one. BMW's been telling folks September, even though the dealer distribution network was apparently misleading some dealers into thinking that, for example, the F800GS was going to show up earlier this month. All the guessing that's been going on (there's a never ending thread on another forum with folks tracking the boats their bikes are or were supposedly on!), and it still appears that the bikes won't be in the shops until pretty close to when BMW has said for a long time they will.

I understand how hard it's got to be to wait. I'm guessing that it'll show up when it shows up. :D
 
The ad states: :deal

* Year:2009
* Make:BMW
* Model:F650GS
* Location:Marietta, GA
* Type:Motorcycle
* Mileage: 15


Unless BMW sends them all out w/ 15 miles on 'em! :whistle

FYI, my F800S had 13 miles on it when I bought it. Of course, a few of them were my test riding the bike, including a short highway run (how interesting that was at under 4K RPM break-in!). I also know I was the first and only to ride this one as it was assembled for me a few days earlier.

Don, in case you're wondering it was on the 101 at Raintree, off @ Cactus and back.

But that 15 seems legit if one rolled in and went for a short ride.
 
I understand how hard it's got to be to wait. I'm guessing that it'll show up when it shows up. :D

I've seen them w/ 7 I've seen 'em w/ 1200... Some are loaners... Some are more popular. :blah

Regardless. +1 It'll show when it shows.
I'd like to try one... The single was too buzzy for me.
Perhaps the twin will feel better.

Then I still hafta wait for someone to buy the one I like... Not like it and sell it on CraigsList so i can save my $2000...

So, I'm looking at 2012 for mine! :ha
 
I've seen them w/ 7 I've seen 'em w/ 1200... Some are loaners... Some are more popular. :blah

Regardless. +1 It'll show when it shows.
I'd like to try one... The single was too buzzy for me.
Perhaps the twin will feel better.

Then I still hafta wait for someone to buy the one I like... Not like it and sell it on CraigsList so i can save my $2000...

So, I'm looking at 2012 for mine! :ha

If the 800GS is anywhere as good as I think it'll be, I will have one - eventually. That motor is fantastic.
 
If the 800GS is anywhere as good as I think it'll be, I will have one - eventually. That motor is fantastic.


... so is the covered belt drive of the S/ST models. I consider it quite unfortunate that the engineers also cheapened out the GS with that chain and that steel tube trellis frame. Don't take my word on these issue, first, anyone here see the announcement that if there is an R, it'll have the GS trellis frame instead of the aluminum bridge frame, because the trellis frame is so much less expensive than the aluminum, to include the latter would price the R out the market? I have suspected the GS has that frame for that reason ever since. I've also seen the 2006 S/ST review on this site, where the reviewer was hoping the GS would have that covered belt drive. I cannot accept a belt cannot go off-road if sufficiently covered.
 
... so is the covered belt drive of the S/ST models. I consider it quite unfortunate that the engineers also cheapened out the GS with that chain and that steel tube trellis frame. Don't take my word on these issue, first, anyone here see the announcement that if there is an R, it'll have the GS trellis frame instead of the aluminum bridge frame, because the trellis frame is so much less expensive than the aluminum, to include the latter would price the R out the market? I have suspected the GS has that frame for that reason ever since. I've also seen the 2006 S/ST review on this site, where the reviewer was hoping the GS would have that covered belt drive. I cannot accept a belt cannot go off-road if sufficiently covered.

There isn't anything magical about Aluminum or necessarily "cheap" about Steel. Though price may have given it the nod (and it sure is pretty). But what penalty came with that steel? If there's no penalty, and there might be a benefit, what's the complaint? :ear Ducati's gotten some great mileage out of their trellis frames in far sportier machines where weight means so much more.

As to the belt, I'd rather have the proven and durable chain off-road than what would be required to protect a belt when taken into rocky mud, sand, and whatever else. Judging by what I've read on more off-road oriented boards, the vast majority of riders, like me, were demanding a chain. And don't forget that with a chain, unlike a belt, comes the ability to change gearing at the back for different conditions and desires. if it came with a belt, I would *not* buy it.
 
Knary,

The beefy aluminum frame is much lighter and far stronger than the steel trellis frame; it makes for great handling and stability with none of the swag or sway a steel trellis frame brings. And, while you bring up Ducati as an example, many of those trellis frames are aluminum/magnesium and are stronger and lighter than the GS steel tube frame. There is little to compare there, but that's why a Duc costs more.

As for chain, I have had many a chained bike; they're OK, but the regular degreasing and oiling every 300 miles, and the pneumatic cut-out for replacement every 6-12K miles (it will be more frequent on a dual sport) is a real PIA compared to a 60K mile, no maintenance belt. Also, the cover on the S/ST could be what would be required to protect a belt when taken into rocky mud, sand, and whatever else, but if not, another cover would be preferable for the much lower maintenance of a belt. YMMV, I would not buy a GS or pretty much any bike with a PIA chain after the belt. Trading one highly-likely-to-fail final drive for another is not what I'd do. I've already traded one of those for the belt and would not go back, now.
 
Knary,

The beefy aluminum frame is much lighter and far stronger than the steel trellis frame; it makes for great handling and stability with none of the swag or sway a steel trellis frame brings. And, while you bring up Ducati as an example, many of those trellis frames are aluminum/magnesium and are stronger and lighter than the GS steel tube frame. There is little to compare there, but that's why a Duc costs more.

The reviews from folks like Nye suggest that it handles damn well. A steel frame doesn't equal poor handling, nor does aluminum guarantee great handling.

Plus, judging by the reported weights, the GS and the ST are essentially the same weight. So where's the great penalty?

IOW, it sounds like some loose conjecture, not hard information. I'm a fan of conjecture, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

As for chain, I have had many a chained bike; they're OK, but the regular degreasing and oiling every 300 miles, and the pneumatic cut-out for replacement every 6-12K miles (it will be more frequent on a dual sport) is a real PIA compared to a 60K mile, no maintenance belt. Also, the cover on the S/ST could be what would be required to protect a belt when taken into rocky mud, sand, and whatever else, but if not, another cover would be preferable for the much lower maintenance of a belt. YMMV, I would not buy a GS or pretty much any bike with a PIA chain after the belt. Trading one highly-likely-to-fail final drive for another is not what I'd do. I've already traded one of those for the belt and would not go back, now.

Chains do indeed take more maintenance. But, again, the GS community was quite clear in their interest in a chain drive. Riding out into the hinter land on the sometimes unknown of a final drive is one thing. Doing it on a belt drive is another. Likely to fail? The chain is easy to maintain, rugged, and tolerates the kind of crap a belt won't. The thing is, when you're going funny places, those little guards, however expansive, don't do nearly as much as you'd think and stuff gets places you wouldn't believe.

And, again, being able to change the drive ratio is very desirable. I used to say the weight of my GS was my biggest complaint about an otherwise great bike. I'd now say the inability to easily change the final drive ratio takes the cake. :D

Yeah, some of that's conjecture. :D
 
The reviews from folks like Nye suggest that it handles damn well. A steel frame doesn't equal poor handling, nor does aluminum guarantee great handling.

Plus, judging by the reported weights, the GS and the ST are essentially the same weight. So where's the great penalty?

IOW, it sounds like some loose conjecture, not hard information. I'm a fan of conjecture, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

When you ride at 85 mph to match traffic on almost any highway in the West, especially one with curves, tell me how stable a steel trellis frame is. Without conjecture, I can already tell you as I go this way and that way at that speed or far better on the AZ 51, Salt River Canyon, AZ 191 or NM 180, the aluminum spar frame is stable and firm like a rock. Let's see a GS do some of this.

And weight, for your comparison keep away the loaded porker with a rack, extra fairings, loaded bags, and whatever else (most have that dang center stand - I have a Wunderlich lifter instead), the GS is about ten over an S. Guess why! With the GS having much lighter front and rear wheels than the others, where does the extra weight come from? It is the frame.

Chains do indeed take more maintenance. But, again, the GS community was quite clear in their interest in a chain drive. Riding out into the hinter land on the sometimes unknown of a final drive is one thing. Doing it on a belt drive is another. Likely to fail? The chain is easy to maintain, rugged, and tolerates the kind of crap a belt won't. The thing is, when you're going funny places, those little guards, however expansive, don't do nearly as much as you'd think and stuff gets places you wouldn't believe.

And, again, being able to change the drive ratio is very desirable. I used to say the weight of my GS was my biggest complaint about an otherwise great bike. I'd now say the inability to easily change the final drive ratio takes the cake. :D

Yeah, some of that's conjecture. :D

Can't wait to see the equivalent posts to this, changed final drive ratio and all http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?p=358203#post358203

Really, I don't hope it does fail, but the potential for such is high, especially with off-road use. This is where a reliable shaft shines. We can continue this a few years after you abuse an F800GS. :D
 
When you ride at 85 mph to match traffic on almost any highway in the West, especially one with curves, tell me how stable a steel trellis frame is. Without conjecture, I can already tell you as I go this way and that way at that speed or far better on the AZ 51, Salt River Canyon, AZ 191 or NM 180, the aluminum spar frame is stable and firm like a rock. Let's see a GS do some of this.

:ha

Are you really lecturing me on what it's like to ride out west? :brow
I'll bet you real money that a GS can keep up with your S just fine. :deal
Hell, I'll bet you real money that my big heavy slow oilhead GS can keep up just fine with your S.

Besides, why would you choose a bike that limits you to pavement. Anyone that lives out west knows that's an example of not thinking things through. :evil

And weight, for your comparison keep away the loaded porker with a rack, extra fairings, loaded bags, and whatever else (most have that dang center stand - I have a Wunderlich lifter instead), the GS is about ten over an S. Guess why! With the GS having much lighter front and rear wheels than the others, where does the extra weight come from? It is the frame.

:scratch
So the bikes are about the same and you're bitching about what might be 10 lbs? Umm.. in the real world, 10 lbs on a bike is less important to riding than what you had for lunch a week ago. Nevermind the extra girth the rider's probably carrying. Can I assume that you're in marathon shape?

Can't wait to see the equivalent posts to this, changed final drive ratio and all http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?p=358203#post358203

Really, I don't hope it does fail, but the potential for such is high, especially with off-road use. This is where a reliable shaft shines. We can continue this a few years after you abuse an F800GS. :D

Off road is where shaft shines? Really?
Or are you being sarcastic?

p.s. I just reread your above post. If you're only getting 6k to 12k out of a chain, something's wrong. Somewhat regular lubrication (without degreasing!) should get you an easy 20k or more - even with abuse. Modern chains have come a long way.
 
:ha

Are you really lecturing me on what it's like to ride out west? :brow

And are you comparing a city of what size to #5 in the country surrounded by some of the most scraggly created roads and difference in elevations known? That's really funny.

:I'll bet you real money that a GS can keep up with your S just fine. :deal
Hell, I'll bet you real money that my big heavy slow oilhead GS can keep up just fine with your S.
IIRC, your big heavy slow oilhead GS is the same HP and +80-100 lbs. You're on @ PIR or Firebird anytime we can reserve it.

:Besides, why would you choose a bike that limits you to pavement. Anyone that lives out west knows that's an example of not thinking things through. :evil

You ride where you want, I'll do the same. Years ago I rode a KLR 650 places you wouldn't find today, and after a few years, I was bored to death with that.


::scratch
So the bikes are about the same and you're bitching about what might be 10 lbs? Umm.. in the real world, 10 lbs on a bike is less important to riding than what you had for lunch a week ago. Nevermind the extra girth the rider's probably carrying. Can I assume that you're in marathon shape?

Me, 5'11.5 and 170lbs. I can't say marathon shape, but it suits me fine. You?


:Off road is where shaft shines? Really?
Or are you being sarcastic?

p.s. I just reread your above post. If you're only getting 6k to 12k out of a chain, something's wrong. Somewhat regular lubrication (without degreasing!) should get you an easy 20k or more - even with abuse. Modern chains have come a long way.

Dusty chains stretch well, and at speed wear out faster; I can only imagine what mud or rocks would do. My old Bandit 1200S AV with a detuned, over-bored GSXR1100 engine which would outrun your GS, my S is much faster, and it stretched out a chain between 6-12K miles up until 2005. And if a chain was better in dirt than a shaft, why have most GS's had them since their release?

We could take up pages of this thread with these posts. If you want to continue this, PM or email me.
 
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