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$150 barrel oil

BeemerMike said:
Yes, there is a way you can "find out the truth", but you may have to work at it a little. I know that's more difficult than just flaming unsubstantiated inuendo, but that's just the way it is. You can look at a university marketing and/or petroleum industry economics textbooks, subject-matter reports on the DOE web page, reports from government investigations of the oil industry, subject matter reports on the API web page, and probably even reports on the web pages of states and other countries with an oil industry (e.g., Texas, California, Louisiana, Great Britain, etc.).
Good luck! :thumb
Click to expand...

First, the API is the guard dog of the oil industry. They are funded by the oil industry and are used to put the best face on what the industry does. I read the Goverment GAO report and it conclusions are based upon what the oil companies and API reported. They mostly say that more goverment research is needed so they can keep their jobs. University research on the oil industry is in most cases funded by the industry. So it is no wonder that they all agree, "The industry is great and working hard to serve us." Even the news industry just reports quotes and tidbits from the industry and financial experts with vested interests.

This sounds very much like the Tobacco industry, who for years provided reports on how smoking posed little or no risk to their customers. It finally took whistle blowers to bring them down. Unforatunately, any credible whistle-blowers in the oil industry will be hard to find.
 
RJM2096 said:
First, the API is the guard dog of the oil industry. They are funded by the oil industry and are used to put the best face on what the industry does. I read the Goverment GAO report and it conclusions are based upon what the oil companies and API reported. They mostly say that more goverment research is needed so they can keep their jobs. University research on the oil industry is in most cases funded by the industry. So it is no wonder that they all agree, "The industry is great and working hard to serve us." Even the news industry just reports quotes and tidbits from the industry and financial experts with vested interests.
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I did not say university "research", I said university "textbooks" . . . you know, the ones that have to be reviewed and approved by Trustees, university management, and other professors (both liberal and conservative) before they can be used.

But the bottom line seems to be that in Mayesworld, every university, every government agency, every law enforcement body, every state, and every country are ALL involved in the BIG CONSPIRACY and have carefully coordinated everything they do and say so that there are no inconsistencies in their stories . . . and no one, but no one, has been able to crack it. Wow! That's better than the freakin' Mafia.

Sometimes you just have to know when you are pounding your head against a brick wall, and people just don't want to understand. I think that time is now.
 
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I'd like to see a national strike of ALLworkers in this country. It seems as though it worked in Europe. Can the people of the United States unite together and just not show up for work. Everyone
should just stay home (except for emergency services personnel).
I hate to say it but, we are at fault for allowing the so called men and women aka. politicians to go into the congress and senate to do nothing but bicker and point fingers. We hired them, we should be able to fire them in a TIMELY manner.
Every elected official should have at least a one year probation period. If that elected official does show production in six months while holding office, then that official should be put on a removal from office list. If there is no production in the second half of the probationary year, then the elected official should be removed from office with no chances of ever running for re-election.
When I was a rookie firefighter, I was on a one year probation. That was almost like being in Army boot camp for 12 months. Every shift we had a roll call, uniform and protective gear inspection then onto physical training. As a probationary firefighter I was under the microscope for every shift I worked for 12 months.
So here we have the fat cat's in Washington and in our own state houses that aren't accomplishing anything. One thing that seems to work for both political parties is giving themselves raises.
I could go on and on. It is a shame that our democracy in this country has been infiltrated by frivolous lobbyist and complacent politicians. I love my country but, I am ashamed of the powers that are in office. This goes for both political parties. I pray to God that things can be fixed. The next six months are going to be very interesting for all of us. One thing I do urge is that everyone gets out and vote. My ranting is finished.

Take Care & Ride Safe
Pat Carol :usa :banghead
 
Ctrod said:
I believe they testified yesterday that they where making 4% profit on oil.
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That is correct. the Federal Goverment takes approx. 20 cents per gallon and the states take from 25 cent per gallon (Alaska) to 62 cents per gallon. (New York). Looks like government is the real thief. The oil company has to find, recover, refine, and deliever its product to the gas station. What do we get from the Feds and state gov. Road and bridges falling apart. Hey Senator Lahey, keep up the good work.:thumb
 
BeemerMike said:
But the bottom line seems to be that in Mayesworld, every university, every government agency, every law enforcement body, every state, and every country are ALL involved in the BIG CONSPIRACY and have carefully coordinated everything they do and say so that there are no inconsistencies in their stories . . . and no one, but no one, has been able to crack it. Wow! That's better than the freakin' Mafia.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is a huge conpiracy (your words), just greed and very powerful companies who are motivated to make huge profits and a government with a vested interest in tax collections and political contributions. As an aside, I worked for Universities and I often witnessed a built in bias to do what the grant poviders want. These same people approving text books based upon industry research means that they approve the accepted practices, which we do. So we are stuck with what we have. Time will tell.
 
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RJM2096 said:
I do not think they were small before they merged and according to Mobil/Exon they are only spending 100 million on renewable/alternative energy projects. That is a paltry amount by the same company that brought us the Valdez.



That may soon change. There is a stockholder initiative, supported by the Rockefeller (sp?) family, to reorganize the board. Their concern is that Exxon/Mobil is being left behind in the renewable energy arena because of their "relatively" feeble investment in it . Meanwhile BP, Shell, Chevron and others are positioning themselves as the "good guys". There was a lengthy article in The Guardian earlier this week.
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I have an idea. Why don't we (US) take back the jobs we have exported to China? Why don't we quit buying this Chinese made crap and then China would not need their factories and the oil to run them?

The US bonds bought by China to finance my $1200 Uncle Sam sent me isn't going back to China. That's for damn sure.

Ralph Sims
 
Mike - research on the solar power project

BeemerMike said:
OK, I can see this is heading into a box canyon, but Kbasa's note had two separate points, one about the cost of the Iraq war vs. spending the Iraq war money on green energy projects to get us out of the Middle East, and a second point about a Vanity Fair article discussion solarizing the southwest. I commenting on them both, and on the second point, I was just trying to find out how much detail about the solar project was in the article. But, if you want to connect everything to the war in Iraq, please go ahead. :rolleyes
Click to expand...
I am not sure about the Vanity Fair article, but it might have been based on the research done last year and published by Scientific American in the January 2008 issue, entitled "A Solar Grand Plan", in which they do lay out a pretty compelling case. Their research estimates that we could meet 69% of our electric and 35% of our total energy requirement by 2050, through large solar power plants located in the Southwest. They research the land area required (not that huge) as well as infrastructure, storage, and government investment req'd - $400B over next 15 years to jumpstart the project. I highly recommend the article, here's the link:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan
 
BeemerMike said:
OK, I can see this is heading into a box canyon, but Kbasa's note had two separate points, one about the cost of the Iraq war vs. spending the Iraq war money on green energy projects to get us out of the Middle East, and a second point about a Vanity Fair article discussion solarizing the southwest. I commenting on them both, and on the second point, I was just trying to find out how much detail about the solar project was in the article. But, if you want to connect everything to the war in Iraq, please go ahead. :rolleyes
Click to expand...
You can roll your eyes all you like, but there's simply no other reason why we had to invent an excuse to go into Iraq. The money spent there could have been spent otherwise on lessening our dependence on oil.

No, I am NOT dismissing it. I just do not agree with you that it is an insurmountable obstacle.
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Please feel free to tell me "I told you so" the moment Yucca Mountain opens. You are also welcome to tell me that when the next new nuclear power plant is built here. I don't expect to hear from you very soon, however. Nuclear is not going to rescue us because we do not want to have those plants anywhere near us.

Meanwhile, Cape Wind, the Nantucket sound wind farm, received it's tentative EIR approval in January and 3 weeks ago NJ Governor Corzine offered $19M in grants to boost the development of a bigger wind farm (up to 200 windmills) off the Jersey shore.
 
DarrylRi said:
Please feel free to tell me "I told you so" the moment Yucca Mountain opens. You are also welcome to tell me that when the next new nuclear power plant is built here. I don't expect to hear from you very soon, however. Nuclear is not going to rescue us because we do not want to have those plants anywhere near us.
Click to expand...

I never said Yucca Mountain WOULD happen, I just said there is no insurmountable technical obstacle to making Yucca Mountain a safe storage location. I fully agree that there is a HUGE political-public acceptance obstacle to Yucca Mountain, but political-public acceptance obstacles CAN be overcome . . . mainly by changing people's or politician's opinions. Will that happen? I don't know, but I do know that France generates almost all of its electricity with nuclear power, so political-public acceptance is certainly possible.
 
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And . . . FYI . . . in today's Wall Street Journal, on page A13 there is an op-ed piece on the effect of the value of the euro vs. the value of the dollar on the price of crude oil (preview, since 2002 crude price has increased about 200% in euros and about 400% in dollars - 25 then vs. 75 and 130 now), AND on page A14 there is an editorial board opinion on the Fed's monetary policy, value of the dollar, and impacts on the prices of crude and other commodities.
 
BeemerMike said:
The short answer to your implied question is you need to do some research to better understand how the price of crude oil is established, how the wholesale price of gasoline is established, and how the retail price (at the pump) of gasoline is established (it is not difficult - just google it) . The three are all different.



And what did the investigations conclude? Hmmmm?

Your statement that the oil industry indicated that crude oil price is a very small component of the price of gasoline seems incorrect. Do you have a specific reference we can check? At $130 per 42-gallon barrel, the price of crude is $3.10 per gallon. That seems like a pretty big component of a $3.80 per gallon price for gasoline, even allowing for the volumetric expansion that occurs during the refining process.
Click to expand...

:laugh Wait .... let me guess .... you work for the oil industry.
 
BeemerMike said:
Your statement that the oil industry indicated that crude oil price is a very small component of the price of gasoline seems incorrect. Do you have a specific reference we can check? At $130 per 42-gallon barrel, the price of crude is $3.10 per gallon. That seems like a pretty big component of a $3.80 per gallon price for gasoline, even allowing for the volumetric expansion that occurs during the refining process.
Click to expand...

Yeah but how many gallons of gasoline do they get out of crude? The answer is a bout 58% of crude is refined into gasoline or diesel.

So if the oil company is paying 3.10 per gallon of crude and is only able to make 2/3 gallon in to gasoline, then they aren't making that much money on it after all are they?

They are actually making money off the byproducts.

According to this graph more than 30% is by products....sold for a profit as well.
fotw346.gif
 
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