are you tired of the whining?

deilenberger · May 20, 2008

knary said:
We already know that some relatively famous people actively ride BMW motorcycles. They've been interviewed in our magazine. They *might* be members. I could look it up, as I have access to that information, but I won't and wouldn't. It's none of my business. It's also none of yours or anyone else in this club.

Indeed they might - but being a member doesn't require that they post on the forums - that's a voluntary action on anyone's part (I don't think even you are forced to.. :whistle

) and if the terms of service defined that their name be known - they would have the option to accept those terms or simply not post here.

I don't see what the problem is - and do see what appears to be rampant paranoia (I've seen the black SUV's, and some of them are actually white.. and three of the helicopters *were* black, but two had "United States of America" emblazened on them for everyone to see.. go figure..) :dance

88bmwjeff · May 20, 2008

Rapid_Roy said:
I think respect is something earned, not just because they were voted in.
If a volunteer sucks, and I complain about it, is that whining, or is it a valid point?
Are we to assume everyone voted in or volunteering automatically earns respect , even if they are terrible at what they do?

For the most part YES. If you make comments regarding a volunteer's actions, then it's most likely valid. However, if you make comments directed at the individual, then it's probably going too far. Anyone who volunteers in a volunteer organization deserves our respect and patience. People volunteer because they are ready and willing, but it doesn't automatically mean they are able (knowledge wise). They need and deserve our patience while they learn. Raking the volunteers over the coals just because we don't think they are doing a good job will only discourage others from volunteering. In long run, you can have a volunteer organization with no one willing to volunteer to do the work.

My attitude is this. I'm not ready, willing or able to volunteer at this time; therefore, I am appreciative to ALL the volunteers who keep this organization running even though I may not always agree with them.

mika · May 20, 2008

Don I fully understand what your point is. I suspect we strongly agree on the desired outcome. While I am more than willing to agree that have your name out in plain view may ameliorate ones behavior, I believe that it will do only that.

This is a social board. The screen names used by many have been pondered on and say much about the person in this social context. What some of us would argue there are many other tools that can be used to contain bad behavior than going to the screen name.

knary · May 20, 2008

Don,
Everyone that's a member of the club is, or will be, a member of the forum. It's how we manage access to the site. This apparently isn't like the other forums you frequent. To require that every member include their name in their signature, we would either need to require it in the system in general, require only upon posting (a clunky bit of code might do it), or require that the mods police each and every post. It's a bit of a mess either way. A mess created all in the hopes of promoting civility based upon, if I understand you correctly, the perception that forums that require real names are more civil - though we don't know if there's any correlation. :dunno

I've got stuff to do. When Ray or Vince tells me to implement a system I strongly disagree with, I'll be ready for another conversation.

Mongo · May 20, 2008

Sometimes I just have to shake my head and sigh.... :dunno

Isn't this supposed to be fun?

knary · May 20, 2008

Mongo said:
Sometimes I just have to shake my head and sigh.... Isn't this supposed to be fun?

Yes
I got sucked in again.

This weekend also included

deilenberger · May 20, 2008

M1ka said:
Don I fully understand what your point is. I suspect we strongly agree on the desired outcome. While I am more than willing to agree that have your name out in plain view may ameliorate ones behavior, I believe that it will do only that.

John, glad someone does.. :hug

I have no problem with disagreement on the outcome.

This is a social board. The screen names used by many have been pondered on and say much about the person in this social context. What some of us would argue there are many other tools that can be used to contain bad behavior than going to the screen name.

I proposed this because this was a thread asking if people are tired of the whining.. and since I'm a moderator I end up having to deal with the back-end work involved in doing it with the "other tools".. I'm very tired of whining (and moreso - personal attacks.)

Unlike most free forums - the moderators here are quite restricted in what we can do, and the amount of documentation required for anything we actually *do* is much greater than any other forum I moderate on. It makes what should be a fairly simple task tedious and time consuming. A number of moderators here have quit because of the amount of time required and a few apparently because of public attacks on them when they did some moderation action.

Lessening the amount of moderation needed and de-fanging the attack dogs seems a reasonable goal to me. Moderation is really a last-step, avoiding the need for moderation should be where our focus should be. If you have any thoughts on how we can achieve this - please post them.

oldhway · May 20, 2008

deilenberger said:
Lessening the amount of moderation needed and de-fanging the attack dogs seems a reasonable goal to me. Moderation is really a last-step, avoiding the need for moderation should be where our focus should be. If you have any thoughts on how we can achieve this - please post them.

I think we spend to much time on the acceptable content. I think moderation should be about acceptable behaior. While the argument can be made that certain content is more apt to encourage bad behavior, it still comes down to how members treat each other.

Let the "rules" deal with behavior, make it abundantly clear that any disrespectful, hurtful, or inflammatory behavior will get you censored or removed, and let folks express there opinions. By concentrating on peoples actions, and not their opinions, the rules become far more tangible and easily understood.

Simply put, if we want to play here, we have to behave. If that can be achieved (and I believe it can), the other issues will become non-issues. After all, everyone has a right to their opinion. They don't have a right to tear someone else's down.

My $.02, since you asked.

mika · May 20, 2008

Mongo said:
Sometimes I just have to shake my head and sigh.... Isn't this supposed to be fun?

Sorry, one of my degrees is in organizational behavior, another in political science. Forums like this are big live lab experiments. So in a strange way threads like this can be fun for me as long as I donÔÇÖt get sucked in.

Mongo · May 20, 2008

M1ka said:
Sorry, one of my degrees is in organizational behavior, another in political science. Forums like this are big live lab experiments. So in a strange way threads like this can be fun for me as long as I don’t get sucked in.

Oh don't get me wrong, in the right frame of mind I can find those posts quite amusing. It's just that the repetition can get a little boring. It's the same members with the same beefs over and over and over.....

mika · May 20, 2008

deilenberger said:
Unlike most free forums - the moderators here are quite restricted in what we can do, and the amount of documentation required for anything we actually *do* is much greater than any other forum I moderate on. It makes what should be a fairly simple task tedious and time consuming. A number of moderators here have quit because of the amount of time required and a few apparently because of public attacks on them when they did some moderation action.

I am not at all familiar with the back of the house issues here. Care to expand?

I also agree with oldway that for me, my concerns are more in terms of behavior than content. Care to comment on that also?

For example, take a look at some of the threads that deal with questions regarding trailering. I often find myself bothered by the would be defenders of the trailering poster as I am of the person making fun of them while expousing their own riding manlyhood with great bravado.

mika · May 20, 2008

Mongo said:
Oh don't get me wrong, in the right frame of mind I can find those posts quite amusing. It's just that the repetition can get a little boring. It's the same members with the same beefs over and over and over.....

guilty.

Mongo · May 20, 2008

Oh will you look at the time

Time to put the gear on and ride on home. :bolt

mika · May 20, 2008

Sure...I work from home. Finally get someone new to play with and they have to go.

flash412 · May 20, 2008

M1ka said:
guilty.

+1
Teach the mods to follow the rules and I'll quit harping on the fact that they don't.
Or dump the rules.
Either way is fine with me.

knary · May 20, 2008

flash412 said:
+1
Teach the mods to follow the rules and I'll quit harping on the fact that they don't.
Or dump the rules.
Either way is fine with me.

I thought you and I covered this already? :dunno

dancogan · May 20, 2008

Rapid_Roy said:
I think respect is something earned, not just because they were voted in.
If a volunteer sucks, and I complain about it, is that whining, or is it a valid point?...

The problem with complaining here is that this is a public forum. Complaining about a volunteer on the forum is far different than talking to the person in charge of that particular activity, or the volunteer him or herself, and voicing a complaint. So, if a volunteer sucks and you complain about it publicly, I don't think you've chosen the appropriate forum, and I think this kind of public treatment discourages others from volunteering.

Rapid_Roy · May 20, 2008

dancogan said:
The problem with complaining here is that this is a public forum. Complaining about a volunteer on the forum is far different than talking to the person in charge of that particular activity, or the volunteer him or herself, and voicing a complaint. So, if a volunteer sucks and you complain about it publicly, I don't think you've chosen the appropriate forum, and I think this kind of public treatment discourages others from volunteering.

When you say it like that.....and I think about it, I agree.
I have been a volunteer at a few Nat'ls, and have had good and bad experiences. I don't read much of the threads where people do because I don't enjoy them, so I move on. It wouldn't stop me from volunteering, but I am a known fool.

I can see how it might stop somebody who is new to rallies.

kbasa · May 20, 2008

deilenberger said:
Actually - I noted just the opposite. The "whiners" (we can define them as so-called or not) do not have their real names in a SIG. They may have it in the user profile, but an almost constant is - it's lacking from their sigs.

You need super powers to see their names in their profile.

kbasa · May 20, 2008

deilenberger said:
My name can be found on search results going back 20+ years, and so far - no one has stolen my identity. You are much more at risk using your credit card at Bob's Stores than by posting your name on every newsgroup or forum you can find.

Indeed. Google my name and you get plenty of hits.

So far, my identity is secure. I take great pains to keep my phone number, address and such out of the public spotlight, but I also take great care to shred any mail with my name and address on it, as well as things like credit card offers and the like.

I believe you have a greater chance of having your identity lifted from something like disposed mail than on line.

are you tired of the whining?

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