are you tired of the whining?

i'm tired of people bitching and whining about the volunteers, board members, and paid staff in unfounded ways. it seems that every so often we get folks hinting or accusing these people of being corrupt, or lazy, or being pawns of BMW.

i think this is part of why people do not volunteer for election or other jobs in our club. i think they think, "i can volunteer my time for the club and take a lot of crap from a bunch of keyboard warriors? it's not worth it."

what say you? do you think our volunteers, elected officials, and office staff should be treated with respect? or is it ok if people use innuendo to kick them around?

It's the internet.

Trolls are everywhere.

Do I think the volunteers should be treated with respect? Yes.

I wish that was the case a the car forum I volunteer for. But it's not. There are some that do not have respect for us, and are not afraid to show it.

It's a pipe dream unless you just ban everyone that complains... but then you will find yourself with an empty play house.

So in short, unless you like to play alone, yes it is OK.

Not that I agree with it, but it is fact.

WildBlue said:

It's the internet.

Trolls are everywhere.

Do I think the volunteers should be treated with respect? Yes.

I wish that was the case a the car forum I volunteer for. But it's not. There are some that do not have respect for us, and are not afraid to show it.

It's a pipe dream unless you just ban everyone that complains... but then you will find yourself with an empty play house.

So in short, unless you like to play alone, yes it is OK.

Not that I agree with it, but it is fact.

Click to expand...

wildblue,

thanks for your response. i like to use analogies to reason. one that i have is that if i don't take out the trash, it piles up in my kitchen. there are some homes that i have been to (lived in as a student!) where we were not good about taking out the trash and doing the dishes. the kitchens were disgusting and horrible, and people didnt want to be in them. and it's true, if you don't take out the trash from any kitchen, it's going to be disgusting. the world is full of nasty kitchens. i do not want a nasty kitchen.

there are a few forums i've spent time on (the rounders come to mind) where jerky users are swiftly banned. we take the trash out immediately. we have steadily increasing numbers and nice, respectful, positive discussion. people still disagree on things, but in respectful ways.

there seems to be a tendency here in the MOA that people think they have "the right" to act abrasive and jerky. it's possible that we err on the side of tolerating too much jerkiness because it doesnt explicitly violate a rule.

is this how you want your forum to be? or do you want the trash taken out?

While I agree with you I fear you have just set the bait in another thread that will lead to complaining.

Oops I am complaining. Darn self fulfilling prophecies.

I wish I'd been to Hawaii.

username said:

wildblue,

there seems to be a tendency here in the MOA that people think they have "the right" to act abrasive and jerky. it's possible that we err on the side of tolerating too much jerkiness because it doesnt explicitly violate a rule.

is this how you want your forum to be? or do you want the trash taken out?

Click to expand...

Moderating a forum reminds me a of shirt there used to be for system admins. It said something like "System administration is a dirty job, but someone said I had to do it"

There are a few who seem to feel that since they have a keyboard and an opinion they can say what they want, when they want about anything and it's their "right". I disagree. This is a forum run by the BMWMOA for it's members and there are guidelines and rules, some of which are left to the interpretation of the moderators. If you don't like the rules then see about changing them or go elsewhere to spout your opinions. Don't complain about the moderators or spin tales of mystical conspiracies. I think if the mods were a little quicker on the trigger we'd have a more civil atmosphere here on the board. OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.
PS - thanks to all the mods that give of their time! The pay sucks and the benefits are nonexistent and still they plug away.

KBasa said:

I wish I'd been to Hawaii.

Click to expand...

You were! I know because I read it on the internet.

Thanks to all.

M1ka said:

You were! I know because I read it on the internet.

Thanks to all.

Click to expand...

hawaii and alaska are actually the only two states I haven't been to. I've actually ridden in all the rest of them.

If I don't like the television programming I use this.


If the content of a thread is irritating - use this.

username said:

wildblue,

thanks for your response. i like to use analogies to reason. one that i have is that if i don't take out the trash, it piles up in my kitchen. there are some homes that i have been to (lived in as a student!) where we were not good about taking out the trash and doing the dishes. the kitchens were disgusting and horrible, and people didn't want to be in them. and it's true, if you don't take out the trash from any kitchen, it's going to be disgusting. the world is full of nasty kitchens. i do not want a nasty kitchen.

there are a few forums I've spent time on (the rounders come to mind) where jerky users are swiftly banned. we take the trash out immediately. we have steadily increasing numbers and nice, respectful, positive discussion. people still disagree on things, but in respectful ways.

there seems to be a tendency here in the MOA that people think they have "the right" to act abrasive and jerky. it's possible that we err on the side of tolerating too much jerkiness because it doesn't explicitly violate a rule.

is this how you want your forum to be? or do you want the trash taken out?

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, we by all means take out the trash. I was hinting more around a totalitarian approach, which is not wise.

The site I Administer, all be it small (2,400+ members) is www.subaru-svx.net and we have a mostly good group. But there are those that skirt the rules closely, knowingly. These type of people are who I was referring to.

I understand wholeheartedly the "free speech" approach/argument by certain users. We do our best to remind them that "free speech", although encouraged is not guaranteed if it does not fall in line with our family friendly rule set. And the "free speech" is not a reality in what is our private world.

Believe me I wish I didn't have to take out the trash, but I am not afraid to at all.

E-Thugs are a problem, they are quickly handled. It's the skirters I worry about, as they are always poking, prodding, and testing your limits.

username said:

i'm tired of people bitching and whining about the volunteers, board members, and paid staff in unfounded ways. it seems that every so often we get folks hinting or accusing these people of being corrupt, or lazy, or being pawns of BMW.

Click to expand...

您抱怨!

WildBlue said:

E-Thugs are a problem, they are quickly handled. It's the skirters I worry about, as they are always poking, prodding, and testing your limits.

Click to expand...

That's been my experience as well. When they finally do wind up being banned, it usually spawns a never ending "Why was XXX banned?" thread, too.

KBasa said:

That's been my experience as well. When they finally do wind up being banned, it usually spawns a never ending "Why was XXX banned?" thread, too.

Click to expand...

Get out of my head...

WildBlue said:

Get out of my head...

Click to expand...

I'd describe that thread as a thread that consists entirely of microscopic drill down on any policies a forum or mod team might have.

And all it will do is tell you who was friends with the recently departed.

Visian said:

您抱怨!

Click to expand...

dude, are you swearing in chinese?

username said:

dude, are you swearing in chinese?

Click to expand...

moi?

KBasa said:

I wish I'd been to Hawaii.

Click to expand...

Quick reply - yes, I get tired of it. I know a lot of the people being complained about, and a more selfless and generous group of people would be hard to find. It pains me to see someone try to belittle them. Thing is - it never works. Belittling someone without contributing becomes obvious rather quickly. People with a gripe sometimes seem to transfer their perceived blame for the gripe to anyone "in-charge", even when being "in-charge" means donating a good part of your life trying to help others.

I'd like moderation to be a bit less encumbered by rules and regulations.. in a few other forums I moderate, and one I own/run - the moderators word is law. Get out of line and you're quickly dealt with. That's more of a problem here where people seem to feel they have a "right" to be offensive since they pay dues to the club.

One change I'd love to see - and I'll toss this up for discussion.. In the group I own (a BMW car model specific group) - I have a requirement that each and every message MUST have a "SIG" that clearly identifies the real person (no screen name) and where they're located. I ask for more info in the sig - such as year/model/etc, but the big requirement is to identify yourself as a person, with a name.

Ya know what? People don't attack other people when they feel they can be easily identified. It just doesn't happen. In 6-7 years I've never had a flame war. I've never had personal attacks.

What'cha think? I'm willing to campaign for a SIG requirement (different from restricting sigs..) - you'll notice that most of the helpful people here don't hide behind screen names. And a lot of the people I find less than helpful do.

Food for thought..

I don't see enough value in a person's real name to overcome their right to a modicum of privacy. I haven't found that real names make people any more or less reasonable on-line. Further, there are some people that frequent these kinds of forums that have a very real need to maintain a small amount of anonymity.

I think you'd note that many if not most of the so-called whiners have their real names either in their profiles or signatures. It hasn't deterred them.

deilenberger said:

Ya know what? People don't attack other people when they feel they can be easily identified. It just doesn't happen. In 6-7 years I've never had a flame war. I've never had personal attacks.

Click to expand...

That's essentially my experience in 15 years of running bulletin boards, but it does happen once in a great while.

Moderation is essential to preserve decorum in any large group, be it Yahoo Groups, old style Usenet, or membership groups like this one.

A very short list of rules works best and no personal attacks should be at the top of the list.