Not a fatality if wearing a helmet?

jr31 · Aug 2, 2019

PGlaves said:
Of course not! It is because it is the law in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. You don't like those laws. That is your right. But until those laws are changed your opinion doesn't really matter as to whether an endorsement is or isn't required.

As to whether it is a good idea, I agree that some training in some states sucks. But your anarchist viewpoint won't change that either.

Ahhhh, The Law! Welcome, friends, to "Cuz I said so and I voted and stuff." Ain't it grand?

I wonder what else might be justified under color of "The Law". Tell us more about reading comprehension and The Law pre-1865? How about pre-1919? Hey, it's The Law, man; your opinion doesn't matter.

The Law is right. Until it ain't.

If it weren't for The Law, people who are totally unqualified would be driving cars...no...wait... They'd be doing really stupid stuff, like driving and tex...no...wait.

Anyway, you are right about at least one thing, The Law is simply an expression of the mechanism of force. And all the best ideas require force.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone that espouses that threat-of-violence-underpinning-everything reconciles it with the ethos of motorcycling. For my part, they are diametrically opposed. But that's just, like, my opinion.

If only The Law governed training...it might be as good as the results we get from licensing as dictated by The Law.

Too easy.

36654 · Aug 2, 2019

Superbike or Fully chromed cruiser

To me, it doesn't matter if the untrained gets a crotch rocket or chromed cruiser. Yep, the crotch rocket is a missile, but the chrome cruiser can wipe-out part of the herd with a stupid move. I've seen both. Perhaps, it's the age difference that allows us to critique the racer wannabees while shrugging our shoulders at the latest pile-up of grandpa pirates. I've seen both come into class and learn something. Sadly, I've seen some leave class with no intention or ability to use the info provided.

But, the vast majority that sign-up for the basic class are there to learn something. In my state, it also allows them to earn their MC endorsement.

For me, I get to offer some safety training and meet people who have chosen a productive path into motorcycling. It's actually quite nice and leads me to believe that the motorcycle community is actually quite healthy.

fog820 · Jan 27, 2020

no flame intended

New to the forum but I do enjoy the discussions about this topic. It has been ongoing for decades and there are many folks that have opinions on the matter. My background, former police officer, accident reconstructionist, long time motorcycle rider. I am an expert and have testified in court and been recognized as an expert in several states. I have a now expired teaching certificate that allowed me to teach accident reconstruction at the state police academy.

Helmets and protective gear can be a great help, I wear it. Helmets can also contribute to serious or fatal injuries. They are around 3 pounds and the extra weight under some circumstances can contribute to injuries to the neck that might have been survivable otherwise. The big things for impacts is time and the focus of the impact. If the force is concentrated in a small area it is more severe, spreading it over a wide area helps to cut down the severity of damage to the person in many cases. Time is the big event. Allowing more time for our bodies to absorb impact energy is why seat belts and air bags work.

Doctors are also experts in the human body. I have worked with pathologists in the past in order to match up injuries to the deceased to the things that caused them. Many times this involved autopsies as well as reports.

Now with all that being said keep some of these things in mind. The human body is fragile. I have found that bones for example can be broken with only the energy that can be generated by a fist. It does not take a great deal of force to kill someone. When one is traveling faster than about 25 miles per hour it is quite possible to be killed in a sudden stop type collision. Many of the mechanics involved deal with internal organs being damaged when they tear free or are damaged by broken bones. For motorcyclists one of the most severe injuries from accidents is massive blood loss from severe and multiple abrasions caused by sliding along the pavement. In many cases a helmet takes the minor head trauma and protects the brain but the individual rapidly suffers fatal blood loss.

That paints a bleak picture but there are several things that can be done to improve your odds. Dress for the crash not for the ride. I was a mere lad of eighteen when I heard that and I still do today. Experience is also a great help, most crashes involve very inexperienced and very low skilled riders. As your skills and experience increase your odds of a crash go down greatly. Operate with in your abilities and your machines abilities. Be alert at all times.

This morning on the way home from work on a two lane road in heavy fog I was able to dodge an SUV being operated by an idiot passing a string of cars. Because of my past experience I was able to rapidly brake and get to the shoulder and avoid the moron. All the safety gear in the world would not have saved me in that collision, nor do I believe being in a car would have either, the speeds and forces would have been to great to be absorbed.

I am going out now to try and get the language on my bike back to English and install the connections for my heated liner from Gordons that arrived today. I wish all of you a great day and safe as well as fun riding experiences.

brownie0486 · Jan 27, 2020

fog820 said:
New to the forum but I do enjoy the discussions about this topic. It has been ongoing for decades and there are many folks that have opinions on the matter. My background, former police officer, accident reconstructionist, long time motorcycle rider. I am an expert and have testified in court and been recognized as an expert in several states. I have a now expired teaching certificate that allowed me to teach accident reconstruction at the state police academy.

Helmets and protective gear can be a great help, I wear it. Helmets can also contribute to serious or fatal injuries. They are around 3 pounds and the extra weight under some circumstances can contribute to injuries to the neck that might have been survivable otherwise. The big things for impacts is time and the focus of the impact. If the force is concentrated in a small area it is more severe, spreading it over a wide area helps to cut down the severity of damage to the person in many cases. Time is the big event. Allowing more time for our bodies to absorb impact energy is why seat belts and air bags work.

Doctors are also experts in the human body. I have worked with pathologists in the past in order to match up injuries to the deceased to the things that caused them. Many times this involved autopsies as well as reports.

Now with all that being said keep some of these things in mind. The human body is fragile. I have found that bones for example can be broken with only the energy that can be generated by a fist. It does not take a great deal of force to kill someone. When one is traveling faster than about 25 miles per hour it is quite possible to be killed in a sudden stop type collision. Many of the mechanics involved deal with internal organs being damaged when they tear free or are damaged by broken bones. For motorcyclists one of the most severe injuries from accidents is massive blood loss from severe and multiple abrasions caused by sliding along the pavement. In many cases a helmet takes the minor head trauma and protects the brain but the individual rapidly suffers fatal blood loss.

That paints a bleak picture but there are several things that can be done to improve your odds. Dress for the crash not for the ride. I was a mere lad of eighteen when I heard that and I still do today. Experience is also a great help, most crashes involve very inexperienced and very low skilled riders. As your skills and experience increase your odds of a crash go down greatly. Operate with in your abilities and your machines abilities. Be alert at all times.

This morning on the way home from work on a two lane road in heavy fog I was able to dodge an SUV being operated by an idiot passing a string of cars. Because of my past experience I was able to rapidly brake and get to the shoulder and avoid the moron. All the safety gear in the world would not have saved me in that collision, nor do I believe being in a car would have either, the speeds and forces would have been to great to be absorbed.

I am going out now to try and get the language on my bike back to English and install the connections for my heated liner from Gordons that arrived today. I wish all of you a great day and safe as well as fun riding experiences.

Good post, my helmet helped me cheat death. They had to cut it off my head [ first strike was left side and crushed the helmet, then flipped onto my back, a smaller impact that crushed the helmet some. No head injuries, lots of road rash, broken bones. That was long before the ATGATT gear available today.

Today, I wear a full face, armored jacket and helite air vest that inflates and protects the vitals, back and neck from rapid deceleration/whip lash etc.

Omega Man · Jan 27, 2020

I still wonder about helmet liners-
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?49907-Helmet-removal-after-the-get-off
OM

Not a fatality if wearing a helmet?

jr31

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36654

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fog820

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brownie0486

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Omega Man

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