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Not a fatality if wearing a helmet?

Motorcycle crashes are a weird thing. One spring I hit a patch of ice, city street, 45 MPH, no helmet, a jacket, picked up the motorcycle and rode home, not one scratch. Many years later I hit the ditch at 70 MPH on a HD Ultra Classic, picked it up and continued on my trip. Minor damage on the motorcycle, I had a scratch on my leg. I was wearing a helmet, but no difference because I was still sitting on the motorcycle when it stopped.

A few months after that crash a friend hit the ditch at 70 MPH. He hit a wash out and went flipping through the air. Destroyed the motorcycle. He broke his leg, and some minor injuries. Worst deal was he went into shock and they air lifted him because the EMT's didn't think he would make it. No helmet, no head injuries. Guys that saw him crash figured he was a goner, and were surprised his injuries, other than the leg were minor. They said he was air born, flipping through the air. The ditch was wet and soft soil, with heavy grass and weeds than may have saved him from farther injuries.

I know of a guy that parked his motorcycle, tried to get off and stumbled somehow, fell and smacked his head on the pavement and died from the concussion. No helmet.
 
When people ask me what is the best helmet to wear I often reply with, what type of accident do you intend to have?


It's possible to fall from an airplane without a parachute and survive, but your odds are insanely bad that you will.


If you are a long term motorcyclist, the odds are pretty good you are going to crash. You may or may not bonk your head, but if you do it is usually pretty serious.


Your head is pretty susceptible to damage. Even throwing on your motorcycle helmet during a tornado increases your odds of survival.
 
just because they point out that he was not wearing a helmet and died from the crash, that does not mean that they would not also have pointed out that he was wearing a helmet (had he been) and died from the crash.


No, it means that he was breaking the law by NOT wearing a helmet. WA state has mandatory helmet laws....
 
Here is the entire article below. The man was riding a 2006 Harley-Davidson motorcycle when he drove into the sign. He was declared dead at the scene.

It was unclear why the man crashed. There were no other vehicles involved and no one else was hurt.

The incident remains under investigation."


Pure speculation here.... but sounds like target fixation! Over 65% of the single-vehicle motorcycle crashes in WA state happen in curves. This could be a culmination of many things... speed, alcohol, inexperience... etc, but this is why we preach in our MSF courses that sitting in a classroom and riding in a parking lot does not make you a rider. You have to practice these perishable skills.
 
Just so you all realize, until yesterday, there has been no posting since 2008.
OM
 
I wear a full-face helmet for comfort as the primary driver. That's right, comfort. If they had no safety benefit, I'd still wear one. If they had a slightly negative impact on survival, I'd still wear one.

Safety is something of an ancillary bonus, and the truth is, feeling safe adds to comfort and enhanced focus. Although a full-face helmet offers limited protection, the idea (note, not fact) that I'm more protected makes me more comfortable, and that comfort extends my ability to effectively manage the motorcycle. That's all comfort.

Like practically all regulatory/behavioral laws, I think helmet laws are absurd in the extreme; however, I find most positions that devalue the comfort (and safety) are pretty thin. If helmets weren't exceptionally effective and if they didn't enhance one's ability to manage the bike, Marc Marquez and Valentino Rossi probably would not wear them just for the endorsement money. The fact is, helmets contribute to both, and that's not really a subjective matter.
 
I hear a lot of medical people and a lot of law enforcement like to throw around the "you would have been killed if not for this helmet" comment, but they are not engineers, they do not know. Sure they may have seen a few accidents, but their anecdotal knowledge of accident scene recollection is not scientifically accurate. Little has been done since the Hurt Report, but most of that still remains true. Motorcycling in general is a small pastime and the 5K people killed each year are small numbers compared to most other popular activities that kill people. Helmets save lives, but how many? Would motorcycle fatalities decrease by 50% is helmets were in use? Would we save 2,500 lives per year? I don't know, but my guess is there are lots of other, lower hanging fruit that could be focused on that that would save more lives. I suspect things will remain as is.

I'm a Mechanical Engineer with 38-yrs of professional employment behind me in the R&D world and 48-yrs of riding experience. I'm quite happy with the anecdotal comments from the Medical and Law Enforcement folks.
 
I'm a Mechanical Engineer with 38-yrs of professional employment behind me in the R&D world and 48-yrs of riding experience. I'm quite happy with the anecdotal comments from the Medical and Law Enforcement folks.




I'm not, and I wont go into how the anecdotal speculation of those groups may provide usable data, but little in the way of conclusions. As an engineer, you should feel the same.


You and I see things very differently, I can tell by what you post & you probably see the same in what I write.


I'm OK with that, hope you are too.
 
Like so many things nowadays, the “writers” are writing content without any real understanding of what they are writing about. Recently, it was announced that the motorcyclist involved in a crash wasn’t wearing a seatbelt :scratch
I frequently wonder of the fun if I could get into the TelePrompTer feed :evil
OM

Many of these instances are because the 'easy or repeatable instances' are now being written by AI. You may be surprised how much information we read on line AND in reputable news and information outlets are not written by humans. What is worse is when AI is used for the Editor function as well.
 
I'm not, and I wont go into how the anecdotal speculation of those groups may provide usable data, but little in the way of conclusions. As an engineer, you should feel the same.

While a layperson may not understand all the details of a given process, it's typically a great success when they walk away with a general understanding of the physics and enough knowledge to make smart decisions. Thus, it's critical for the technical person to relay information in a manner that conveys critical content without the added baggage of technical details which may confuse the layperson in the audience.
 
While a layperson may not understand all the details of a given process, it's typically a great success when they walk away with a general understanding of the physics and enough knowledge to make smart decisions. Thus, it's critical for the technical person to relay information in a manner that conveys critical content without the added baggage of technical details which may confuse the layperson in the audience.



I'll keep that in mind. You seem to be a dog-gone expert in any topic that arises, from tractors to accident investigation to the health of the motorcycle industry and now you are venturing into medical opinion. I'm not certain why anyone else posts, you have all the knowledge. If anyone contradicts anything you say, you fall back on 38 years of engineering and 48 years of riding.


I'm sure if their were a breast feeding thread on here, you'd have all the answers for that too.
 
I'll keep that in mind. You seem to be a dog-gone expert in any topic that arises, from tractors to accident investigation to the health of the motorcycle industry and now you are venturing into medical opinion. I'm not certain why anyone else posts, you have all the knowledge. If anyone contradicts anything you say, you fall back on 38 years of engineering and 48 years of riding.


I'm sure if their were a breast feeding thread on here, you'd have all the answers for that too.

Meaning a friendly jest to be enjoyed by all reading on, I have to ask. Have you ever met an engineer?
 
Meaning a friendly jest to be enjoyed by all reading on, I have to ask. Have you ever met an engineer?

I doubt that he has. He asked me a question about the follow-on processes to reproduction.

BTW - That was a joke.
 
Statistically speaking using a helmet 100% of the time, having ZERO alcohol in your body and having an actual motorcycle license means you will never be killed in a motorcycle accident, there are always exceptions, but in most fatal motorcycle accidents one or more of these three things are often at play. If you know this you can manage (decrease) the risk of riding a motorcycle a huge amount by simply staying on the correct side of those factors.
I don't think the motorcycle license is a factor. Such minimum skills are needed to pass most tests makes it a joke. I agree a helmet, sober and good protective gear are important. It takes lots of training and experience to help make a rider safer. However there are times when s**t happens and nothing except not being exposed would have helped.
 
I don't think the motorcycle license is a factor. Such minimum skills are needed to pass most tests makes it a joke. I agree a helmet, sober and good protective gear are important. It takes lots of training and experience to help make a rider safer. However there are times when s**t happens and nothing except not being exposed would have helped.



Well its statistics, so it really does matter. Not having a license is a big factor in deadly motorcycle accidents. Perhaps it is just an indicator of one's seriousness toward learning the skill needed, but none the less it is a factor.

I'm sure there are tons of people that do not have an official motorcycle license that can ride very well, I'm sure there are people who ride well after having a couple beers, and I'm sure that there are people who have crashed without helmets and are just fine. I'm not suggesting helmets/alcohol/license is the total solution or problem, I'm just saying statistically speaking those are the top three indicators for deadly motorcycle accidents.
 
Well its statistics, so it really does matter. Not having a license is a big factor in deadly motorcycle accidents. Perhaps it is just an indicator of one's seriousness toward learning the skill needed, but none the less it is a factor.

I'm sure there are tons of people that do not have an official motorcycle license that can ride very well, I'm sure there are people who ride well after having a couple beers, and I'm sure that there are people who have crashed without helmets and are just fine. I'm not suggesting helmets/alcohol/license is the total solution or problem, I'm just saying statistically speaking those are the top three indicators for deadly motorcycle accidents.

I liked the logic of your statistical observation, and indeed found some comfort in it (I don't drink wear my gear and have an MC license). I AM curious about the source of the license factor- the other two are typically mentioned in most reportage- I've never heard the license mentioned (unless an illegal immigrant was driving- where ,till recently, lack of license could be assumed. So where'd you get that one as a significant factor?
 
I'll keep that in mind. You seem to be a dog-gone expert in any topic that arises, from tractors to accident investigation to the health of the motorcycle industry and now you are venturing into medical opinion. I'm not certain why anyone else posts, you have all the knowledge. If anyone contradicts anything you say, you fall back on 38 years of engineering and 48 years of riding.


I'm sure if their were a breast feeding thread on here, you'd have all the answers for that too.

Well, I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night- and lemme tell ya' about breast feeding...
 
I liked the logic of your statistical observation, and indeed found some comfort in it (I don't drink wear my gear and have an MC license). I AM curious about the source of the license factor- the other two are typically mentioned in most reportage- I've never heard the license mentioned (unless an illegal immigrant was driving- where ,till recently, lack of license could be assumed. So where'd you get that one as a significant factor?

I can answer that - it's a finding from safety studies of motorcycle accidents, starting with the Hurt Report.
 
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