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Thread: Not a fatality if wearing a helmet?

  1. #16
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    A rider in my area went over the center line and hit a semi truck head on at highway speed. Of course he died, but they mentioned he was not wearing a helmet, like it would have made a difference!

    I don't know why, but I always get a kick out of these news articles when they mention that the rider was wearing a helmet or not. Most of the time it really does not matter. When the trauma to the body is severe does it really matter that his head was in great shape? Or no helmet, severe head injuries, but it wouldn't have matter anyway from the severe trauma to the body.

    I had a friend that rode a lot and had a car pull out in front of her. She always wore a helmet, but it did not save her. The injury to her brain was too much even with the helmet. The rest of her injuries were fairly minor.
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

  2. #17
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Like so many things nowadays, the “writers” are writing content without any real understanding of what they are writing about. Recently, it was announced that the motorcyclist involved in a crash wasn’t wearing a seatbelt
    I frequently wonder of the fun if I could get into the TelePrompTer feed
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  3. #18
    Krmugin
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    1. Helmets do save lives. It's been a fact for quite some time.

    This article, while dated, shows that.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6123a1.htm

    2. How is it biased to report only when a law is broken? It's required to follow. While I don't personally agree with helmet or seatbelt laws, I universally use both. Police reports, in particular, tend to capture violations, and don't catalog all the laws that were being followed at a particular incident.

  4. #19
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    No argument that helmets save lives, but if the impact is so severe the body is destroyed what difference did it make. Also I see news reports of accidents with helmets use in this area and we are not required to wear them, so no law broken, no need to report.
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

  5. #20
    ZWEI KOLBEN
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    Helmets work from about a 6ft drop, the distance you are from the pavement. You might survive a bounce or two or a glancing blow hitting a car at 55+, but they only absorb so much energy. In some people's heads you can go head first into a guardrail at 70 and survive because of a helmet, not true.
    uyWe are now learning that head injuries, even minor ones can be cumulative. People like MX racers experiencing them on a regular basis. Travis Pastrana is a good example and he wore one the best helmets you could buy, 100% of the time.

    We also know that age plays a huge factor as well. You may easily survive 3 major, non-life threatening injuries as a 24 year old, but have those same injuries kill you at 70. As we age our body struggles to recover and multiple injuries can be catastrophic even if they are not that serious individually.

    Statistically speaking using a helmet 100% of the time, having ZERO alcohol in your body and having an actual motorcycle license means you will never be killed in a motorcycle accident, there are always exceptions, but in most fatal motorcycle accidents one or more of these three things are often at play. If you know this you can manage (decrease) the risk of riding a motorcycle a huge amount by simply staying on the correct side of those factors.

    The thinly veiled posts about how we are ATGATT and the HD riders aren't make up a huge amount of the content of this forum, it is sad. Almost all threads morph into an us vs. them position where we feel we are superior.

    The last rider I casually spoke to in person was at an ice cream shop on Saturday evening. He was on a new RT, he was older and had ridden BMWs and "Wings" for years. Was I supposed to feel enlightened or superior? Was I supposed to tell him he was doing it wrong? Am I to take the position he is a complete idiot as many on this forum do? Should I have muttered tsk, tsk, tsk, and expected him to be killed as soon as he rode away?

    I hear a lot of medical people and a lot of law enforcement like to throw around the "you would have been killed if not for this helmet" comment, but they are not engineers, they do not know. Sure they may have seen a few accidents, but their anecdotal knowledge of accident scene recollection is not scientifically accurate. Little has been done since the Hurt Report, but most of that still remains true. Motorcycling in general is a small pastime and the 5K people killed each year are small numbers compared to most other popular activities that kill people. Helmets save lives, but how many? Would motorcycle fatalities decrease by 50% is helmets were in use? Would we save 2,500 lives per year? I don't know, but my guess is there are lots of other, lower hanging fruit that could be focused on that that would save more lives. I suspect things will remain as is.

  6. #21
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    Motorcycle crashes are a weird thing. One spring I hit a patch of ice, city street, 45 MPH, no helmet, a jacket, picked up the motorcycle and rode home, not one scratch. Many years later I hit the ditch at 70 MPH on a HD Ultra Classic, picked it up and continued on my trip. Minor damage on the motorcycle, I had a scratch on my leg. I was wearing a helmet, but no difference because I was still sitting on the motorcycle when it stopped.

    A few months after that crash a friend hit the ditch at 70 MPH. He hit a wash out and went flipping through the air. Destroyed the motorcycle. He broke his leg, and some minor injuries. Worst deal was he went into shock and they air lifted him because the EMT's didn't think he would make it. No helmet, no head injuries. Guys that saw him crash figured he was a goner, and were surprised his injuries, other than the leg were minor. They said he was air born, flipping through the air. The ditch was wet and soft soil, with heavy grass and weeds than may have saved him from farther injuries.

    I know of a guy that parked his motorcycle, tried to get off and stumbled somehow, fell and smacked his head on the pavement and died from the concussion. No helmet.
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

  7. #22
    ZWEI KOLBEN
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    When people ask me what is the best helmet to wear I often reply with, what type of accident do you intend to have?


    It's possible to fall from an airplane without a parachute and survive, but your odds are insanely bad that you will.


    If you are a long term motorcyclist, the odds are pretty good you are going to crash. You may or may not bonk your head, but if you do it is usually pretty serious.


    Your head is pretty susceptible to damage. Even throwing on your motorcycle helmet during a tornado increases your odds of survival.

  8. #23
    Registered User crna59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USERNAME View Post
    just because they point out that he was not wearing a helmet and died from the crash, that does not mean that they would not also have pointed out that he was wearing a helmet (had he been) and died from the crash.

    No, it means that he was breaking the law by NOT wearing a helmet. WA state has mandatory helmet laws....
    Bruce A. Brown #212072
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  9. #24
    Registered User crna59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTOR31 View Post
    Here is the entire article below. The man was riding a 2006 Harley-Davidson motorcycle when he drove into the sign. He was declared dead at the scene.

    It was unclear why the man crashed. There were no other vehicles involved and no one else was hurt.

    The incident remains under investigation."

    Pure speculation here.... but sounds like target fixation! Over 65% of the single-vehicle motorcycle crashes in WA state happen in curves. This could be a culmination of many things... speed, alcohol, inexperience... etc, but this is why we preach in our MSF courses that sitting in a classroom and riding in a parking lot does not make you a rider. You have to practice these perishable skills.
    Bruce A. Brown #212072
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  10. #25
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Just so you all realize, until yesterday, there has been no posting since 2008.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Just so you all realize, until yesterday, there has been no posting since 2008.
    OM
    and I guess I revived the thread. No clue how I ran across it!
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

  12. #27
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorUB View Post
    and I guess I revived the thread. No clue how I ran across it!
    It’s actually a good thing for Members to run through the old posts. It frequently adds perspective to things
    Keep digging
    OM
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  13. #28
    Registered User jr31's Avatar
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    I wear a full-face helmet for comfort as the primary driver. That's right, comfort. If they had no safety benefit, I'd still wear one. If they had a slightly negative impact on survival, I'd still wear one.

    Safety is something of an ancillary bonus, and the truth is, feeling safe adds to comfort and enhanced focus. Although a full-face helmet offers limited protection, the idea (note, not fact) that I'm more protected makes me more comfortable, and that comfort extends my ability to effectively manage the motorcycle. That's all comfort.

    Like practically all regulatory/behavioral laws, I think helmet laws are absurd in the extreme; however, I find most positions that devalue the comfort (and safety) are pretty thin. If helmets weren't exceptionally effective and if they didn't enhance one's ability to manage the bike, Marc Marquez and Valentino Rossi probably would not wear them just for the endorsement money. The fact is, helmets contribute to both, and that's not really a subjective matter.

  14. #29
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scqtt View Post
    I hear a lot of medical people and a lot of law enforcement like to throw around the "you would have been killed if not for this helmet" comment, but they are not engineers, they do not know. Sure they may have seen a few accidents, but their anecdotal knowledge of accident scene recollection is not scientifically accurate. Little has been done since the Hurt Report, but most of that still remains true. Motorcycling in general is a small pastime and the 5K people killed each year are small numbers compared to most other popular activities that kill people. Helmets save lives, but how many? Would motorcycle fatalities decrease by 50% is helmets were in use? Would we save 2,500 lives per year? I don't know, but my guess is there are lots of other, lower hanging fruit that could be focused on that that would save more lives. I suspect things will remain as is.
    I'm a Mechanical Engineer with 38-yrs of professional employment behind me in the R&D world and 48-yrs of riding experience. I'm quite happy with the anecdotal comments from the Medical and Law Enforcement folks.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
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  15. #30
    ZWEI KOLBEN
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    I'm a Mechanical Engineer with 38-yrs of professional employment behind me in the R&D world and 48-yrs of riding experience. I'm quite happy with the anecdotal comments from the Medical and Law Enforcement folks.



    I'm not, and I wont go into how the anecdotal speculation of those groups may provide usable data, but little in the way of conclusions. As an engineer, you should feel the same.


    You and I see things very differently, I can tell by what you post & you probably see the same in what I write.


    I'm OK with that, hope you are too.

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