Dgt = Gone

21941 · Feb 8, 2008

Photography forum

I demand that it be removed immediately . . . for I am offended!

Many people on that forum can afford expensive photographic equipment and software and I can't . . .
Many on that forum can take better pictures than I can . . .
It takes up too much server space with all those pictures, so as a club we can't afford its expense for just a few . . .
The photography forum has nothing to do with BMW motorcycles and don't tell me that a picture of a dirty GS is a qualifying factor . . .
And besides, it sucks!

Do these all sound like good reasons to eliminate that forum? Who do I complain to about this?

rkasal · Feb 8, 2008

rocketman said:
Not sure where you get your data but the last poll showed that 23 thought it sucked, 22 thought it did not and 21 were "shades of gray" so to imply that 2/3 were in favor is just playing with numbers. Furthermore, compared to the other areas of the off topic you are again mistaken in stating it had a high level of views, at least from the level of viewers as seen from the main menu, as a mod for the photography forum I monitored the off-topic area quite closely and at any one time the number of viewers for DGT was anywhere from 0 to 8 or maybe 9 with 6-7 being the mean, compared to several other areas there that were at twice that number or campfire which often ran 4-6 times as many as any other area.
You can play with the numbers all you want but sliding the 1/3 unsure into the "for" category doesn't really wash. Its like what they say about statistics....

RM

Unless a motorcycle is in a photo, just what are we doing with a photography forum? How much more space does that photography forum take than any other forum? A lot more.

And, the mods have to not only read every caption but review every photo.

The excuses keep piling up but are not flying. It is time for a change.

Basic math, which even you may follow: [(22 + 21)/66] x 100% = 65% using the least significant number. Sorry that it was less than 1% short of 2/3rds of those polled who didn't say it sucked.

And yes, I am aware of your monitoring the DGT.

Does anyone else find it curious that those who are from the right and from the left want to keep the forum but those who don't specifically want to keep the forum have not yet come out from under their slimy rocks and publicy stated so?

Rapid_Roy · Feb 8, 2008

I can't imagine that any of my posts were demeaning to women and made them uncomfortable. If so, I apologize. If that was just an excuse, shame on you.
It was that nekkid one of Karl, I'll wager.

:hide

MOTOR31 · Feb 8, 2008

I just read through the entire thread. To say that I'm disappointed is a gross understatement. In looking at the poll and commenting on it earlier it was shown that 60% of the folks responding to the poll did not find the DGT "sucked". What's more anyone going there had to go out of their way to enter it. To my knowledge not one person was forced or coerced to go there. Certainly no one had to go through it to see the rest of the forum.

For someone to complain that they didn't like it is simply silly and disingenuous. all they had to do was ignore it. It's a shame that some people who like to complain have succeeded in forcing their opinions on others. This is no longer a club for the members, all of the members, it's the empire of the whiners.

The fact that it's buried here instead of in the clubhouse, since it IS club business, just helps to sweep it under the notice of the rest of the members who dare to use the forum.

rkasal · Feb 8, 2008

Greg,

Who is on this marketing and communications committee? Please post here or a link here to where this information may be found.

Rapid_Roy · Feb 8, 2008

I would also like to thank the moderators, but when I volunteered at the National, nobody thanked me. Volunteering here is a thankless task, it would seem.

I am still curious which threads made women uncomfortable.
If one of the mods would be so kind as to pm me with them, perhaps I can figure out how that was perceived so. :scratch

testinglogin · Feb 8, 2008

Motor31 said:
I just read through the entire thread. To say that I'm disappointed is a gross understatement. In looking at the poll and commenting on it earlier it was shown that 60% of the folks responding to the poll did not find the DGT "sucked". What's more anyone going there had to go out of their way to enter it. To my knowledge not one person was forced or coerced to go there. Certainly no one had to go through it to see the rest of the forum.

For someone to complain that they didn't like it is simply silly and disingenuous. all they had to do was ignore it. It's a shame that some people who like to complain have succeeded in forcing their opinions on others. This is no longer a club for the members, all of the members, it's the empire of the whiners.

At the same time, there was no majority that said DGT should stay.

As for "empire of the whiners", it depends on how you look at things. I think it's important to step back and look at both sides of the issue, even if you have a strong belief one way or another. Some of the members who didn't like it might see everyone who is complaining about it being taken away as "whiners".

So that begs the question; what makes your opinion that DGT should stay more important than their opinion that DGT should go? Note this leaves out other issues of moderator resources.

kreinke · Feb 8, 2008

jdmetzger said:
As I said previously, I don't think we'll see "spill over" into other forum areas. We have set rules in place, and it makes moderating these things a "no brainer". We might have a few "doghouse" threads at first (if people can't control themselves), but in the end, I doubt there will be any long-term negative effects.

IMHO. YMMV.

NOTE:This is not a troll post. I'm not trying to incite or cause a rebellion. I just want my dissenting opinion on the record, not that anyone cares.

So what you're saying is that DGT was kind of a "forum post concentration camp" where dissenting opinions were harbored where they coudn't contaminate the "campfire". Now those forum subjects, through the new forum rules, have essentially been sent to showers never to be heard from again.

Now that moderating things is a "no brainer" , as you stated above, then we don't need moderators any more and can eliminate them as well right?

Now we hear some other "elitists" saying "This is a motorcycle forum. We should only talk about motorcycles."

Fine. Then no more food threads, Blues music threads, Grateful Dead threads, or anything directly not having to do with motorcycles.

testinglogin · Feb 8, 2008

kreinke said:
NOTE:This is not a troll post. I'm not trying to incite or cause a rebellion. I just want my dissenting opinion on the record, not that anyone cares.

So what you're saying is that DGT was kind of a "forum post concentration camp" where dissenting opinions were harbored where they coudn't contaminate the "campfire". Now those forum subjects, through the new forum rules, have essentially been sent to showers never to be heard from again.

Now that moderating things is a "no brainer" , as you stated above, then we don't need moderators any more and can eliminate them as well right?

Now we hear some other "elitists" saying "This is a motorcycle forum. We should only talk about motorcycles."

Fine. Then no more food threads, Blues music threads, Grateful Dead threads, or anything directly not having to do with motorcycles.

I'm not taking your post as a troll at all, so we're good, there.

Moderating the "off limits" topics is a "no brainer" from the standpoint that the moderators can say "look at the forum guidelines, this is prohibited. Thank you, come again!" This still requires a moderator to enforce. Of course, there will always be gray areas, but I would say (this is opinion, again) that the majority (though not all) of topics in DGT were not in that "gray area".

There is nothing in the guidelines that say we only have to talk about motorcycles, so people can SAY there shouldn't be other discussions, but there is no rule against them.

Of course, we can go around and around until the end of time as to what is "acceptable" and ask disingenuous questions like "we have a rule about no political discussions; what about talking about motorcycle related laws being passed in Congress?" In the end, I think people know what "no political discussions" really means. When they don't, the mods are around to remind us all. Generally that should be rarely.

rocketman · Feb 8, 2008

rkasal said:
Unless a motorcycle is in a photo, just what are we doing with a photography forum? How much more space does that photography forum take than any other forum? A lot more.

And, the mods have to not only read every caption but review every photo.

The excuses keep piling up but are not flying. It is time for a change.

Basic math, which even you may follow: [(22 + 21)/66] x 100% = 65% using the least significant number. Sorry that it was less than 1% short of 2/3rds of those polled who didn't say it sucked.

And yes, I am aware of your monitoring the DGT.

Does anyone else find it curious that those who are from the right and from the left want to keep the forum but those who don't specifically want to keep the forum have not yet come out from under their slimy rocks and publicy stated so?

in your last post you stated

"The DGT poll a month or two ago had 2/3 rds of the members voting to retain DGT."

So I was responding to that statement which implied that the 1/3 that were in the gray area were in favor of it, when at best they could be considered neutral. As such I could just as easily claim they were against. Its just playing with numbers.

As for your statement that you are aware that I monitored DGT along with other forums, so what? I guess I should be flattered that you felt it worth your personal time to monitor my activities?

You have been given the information to pursue bringing the DGT back, good luck with your efforts.

RM

rkasal · Feb 8, 2008

rocketman said:
in your last post you stated

"The DGT poll a month or two ago had 2/3 rds of the members voting to retain DGT."

So I was responding to that statement which implied that the 1/3 that were in the gray area were in favor of it, when at best they could be considered neutral. As such I could just as easily claim they were against. Its just playing with numbers.

As for your statement that you are aware that I monitored DGT along with other forums, so what? I guess I should be flattered that you felt it worth your personal time to monitor my activities?

You have been given the information to pursue bringing the DGT back, good luck with your efforts.

RM

It is time for a change.

rocketman · Feb 8, 2008

rkasal said:
It is time for a change.

Ha Ha!

Of that we are in total agreement!

Think I'll go on vacation..

yeah that sounds like just the ticket...

RM

2 days and I'm .... :bolt

Bud · Feb 8, 2008

rkasal said:
Does anyone else find it curious that those who are from the right and from the left want to keep the forum but those who don't specifically want to keep the forum have not yet come out from under their slimy rocks and publicy stated so?

USERNAME · Feb 8, 2008

the way i see it, i can easily put aside things like only a small number of the users were using DGT (vintage has this attribute,) that it placed too heavy a moderation load on us (that can be managed) or that it had non-BMW content (campfire, photography have this.) the bottom line is that DGT is inconsistent with the spirit of the BMWMOA.

DGT was created as an experiment to see what would happen when we quarantined the kinds of topics that are divisive instead of completely restricting the topics for discussion. the discussions in DGT were typically involved people using loaded words, stereotypes, and not really interested in legitimate arguing, or learning, or trying to see the point of view of others, but in incessantly blasting out their opinion. that is not in the spirit of this organization. so the experiment was a success, it gave us data and allowed us to stop speculating and see what would happen.

the BMWMOA is about bringing people together under the umbrella of being BMW enthusiasts. it is about setting aside our differences so that we can emphasize what we have in common.

and we're making it clear, if you have some deep-seated need to tell someone in an online forum that hillary clinton is a communist, barack obama is a muslim, george bush is the greatest president of all time, jimmy carter has cheap dental work, or whatever, you need to find another outlet for that urge. many people have mentioned that you can get that itch scratched over at advrider.

but we dont want you to leave, we want you to share with us what we have in common. we want to hear about your bike. we want to see pictures of it and all your trips. we want to hear about wrenching on it. we want to be the world's number one online (and real-life) community for enthusiasts of BMW motorcycling.

SNC1923 · Feb 8, 2008

dvandkq said:
Did those who complained about DGT (squeaky wheels) ever register their opinions within DGT? I think not. Posting here saying "good riddance" when you never participated in the forum is tantamount to going to a funeral and saying "I hated that guy" even though you never met him.

Now I know how to get the MOA to eliminate forum categories on the website - whine, moan and complain until I get my way.

I'm the one who said, "good riddance."

I participated in threads in DGT.

I repeat, good riddance.

kbasa · Feb 8, 2008

username said:
the way i see it, i can easily put aside things like only a small number of the users were using DGT (vintage has this attribute,) that it placed too heavy a moderation load on us (that can be managed) or that it had non-BMW content (campfire, photography have this.) the bottom line is that DGT is inconsistent with the spirit of the BMWMOA.

DGT was created as an experiment to see what would happen when we quarantined the kinds of topics that are divisive instead of completely restricting the topics for discussion. the discussions in DGT were typically involved people using loaded words, stereotypes, and not really interested in legitimate arguing, or learning, or trying to see the point of view of others, but in incessantly blasting out their opinion. that is not in the spirit of this organization.

the BMWMOA is about bringing people together under the umbrella of being BMW enthusiasts. it is about setting aside our differences so that we can emphasize what we have in common.

and we're making it clear, if you have some deep-seated need to tell someone in an online forum that hillary clinton is a communist, barack obama is a muslim, george bush is the greatest president of all time, jimmy carter has cheap dental work, or whatever, you need to find anothe outlet for that urge. many people have mentioned that you can get that itch scratched

but we dont want you to leave, we want you to share with us what we have in common. we want to hear about your bike. we want to see pictures of it and all your trips. we want to hear about wrenching on it. we want to be the world's number one online (and real-life) community for enthusiasts of BMW motorcycling.

Well stated.

Threeteas · Feb 8, 2008

username said:
if you have some deep-seated need to tell someone in an online forum that hillary clinton is a communist, barack obama is a muslim, george bush is the greatest president of all time, jimmy carter has cheap dental work, or whatever,

QUOTE]

Who could you possibly be refering to?

HODAG · Feb 8, 2008

KBasa said:
Well stated.

did you write it for him?

(is that enough laughing smilies to indicate it was said in jest?)

From MARS · Feb 8, 2008

Exactly!

username said:
the way i see it, i can easily put aside things like only a small number of the users were using DGT (vintage has this attribute,) that it placed too heavy a moderation load on us (that can be managed) or that it had non-BMW content (campfire, photography have this.) the bottom line is that DGT is inconsistent with the spirit of the BMWMOA.

DGT was created as an experiment to see what would happen when we quarantined the kinds of topics that are divisive instead of completely restricting the topics for discussion. the discussions in DGT were typically involved people using loaded words, stereotypes, and not really interested in legitimate arguing, or learning, or trying to see the point of view of others, but in incessantly blasting out their opinion. that is not in the spirit of this organization.

the BMWMOA is about bringing people together under the umbrella of being BMW enthusiasts. it is about setting aside our differences so that we can emphasize what we have in common.

and we're making it clear, if you have some deep-seated need to tell someone in an online forum that hillary clinton is a communist, barack obama is a muslim, george bush is the greatest president of all time, jimmy carter has cheap dental work, or whatever, you need to find anothe outlet for that urge. many people have mentioned that you can get that itch scratched

but we dont want you to leave, we want you to share with us what we have in common. we want to hear about your bike. we want to see pictures of it and all your trips. we want to hear about wrenching on it. we want to be the world's number one online (and real-life) community for enthusiasts of BMW motorcycling.

I go for away for 6 days of riding, come back anxious to share the experience with the guys I have gotten to "know" in DGT, and its gone. Sure they're still out there in front of their computers, but we don't have *our* campfire anymore. Somebody came along and poured water on it while I was gone.

DGT did build a cohesive group of sorts. We were diverse, passionate, and mostly polite. I will miss reading the opinions of these guys. My enthusiasm for BMWMOA has been diminished by the decision to remove it. I think it speaks volumes about what kind of an organization I have joined. If I cannot be comfortable talking, politely, about any subject at hand because I have to be fearful of the repercussions, why would I want to hang out there?

I "knew" these people that were regular posters on DGT. Each had exposed enough of themselves through their post that I would feel very comfortable meeting them in person. I knew where they stood on issues and much of their backgrounds on which those opinions were formed. I accepted them for who they were, and I will miss the fellowship of my fellow riders who could, and would, discuss something besides their latest toy.

Any board member or candidate for the board that supports the abolishment of DGT will not get my vote.

Tom

bob_m · Feb 8, 2008

By By

DGT!
Originally I voted against it but I participated in it for a while because my opinions are based on well reasoned thought and are unassailably correct (like everyone else’s). However the tone of discourse on DGT was frequently condescending if not down right insulting. It was like an unkempt house on the block and it changed the character of the entire neighborhood. If my analogy offends people with unkempt houses, Just deal with it.

By me the DGT won’t be missed

Dgt = Gone

I coulda' been a cowboy!

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It is what it is.

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