Dgt = Gone

JCabranes said:

There goes any illusion that the membership has a voice in the way things are run here.

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I posted there myself sometimes (less and less, as of late), but I don't miss it one bit, and I don't blame them at all for removing it. I always thought about how a new member might join and see DGT on their first visit. We have had the luxury of being here before it was created and somewhat knowing how things work. Without that info, people could see DGT on their first visit and decide this isn't the place for them, without giving us a chance. The forum rules are in place. If I want to talk politics, I'll go to advrider.

Also, just because he said "it sucked" doesn't mean he didn't receive lots of emails suggesting DGT be removed. It's very possible there was more "get rid of it" than "keep it", even if you didn't see it publicly. I know there was a lot of "this sucks" at the start, and then many people just stopped posting there. It doesn't mean their opinions changed, just that they didn't like it and were staying away. You may say "great, let them stay away and leave it there". Just because they ignore it doesn't mean it's not still a stone in their shoe.

Let us not use the reason that this is a bike forum, otherwise Photography and Cooking and everything else we can relate to our bikes shouldn't be acceptable.
There are forums all over the internet for those subjects too, but we can only talk about Motorcycles so much. I have my ideas why this section was removed, but only a few people acted really unreasonable IMO. It appears that people at Rallys are really on their best behavior. Let us just say it was removed because of democracy in action, and making the moderators work overtime.

BubbaZanetti said:

that's the spirit

and besides, there's actually more than 6 people who use it over there and the "mental challenge" is considerably greater (some of those guys REALLY know their stuff)

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True, but that still doesn't meant they are correct, just louder with facts.

We have a diverse group here, and I am certain people didn't approve of the topics.
Much like people don't approve of the National site, or the music picked.
The majority rules.

Even though I lobbied for it initially, I don't think it's a loss to see it go. If you want to argue that stuff, there are better, more challenging places to do so.

Burnszilla said:

So where am I not supposed to go now?

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You, you can go riding I'm just going to continue trying to go to work.

KBasa said:

Even though I lobbied for it initially, I don't think it's a loss to see it go. If you want to argue that stuff, there are better, more challenging places to do so.

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Like the Rally Forum,

jdmetzger said:

I posted there myself sometimes (less and less, as of late), but I don't miss it one bit, and I don't blame them at all for removing it. I always thought about how a new member might join and see DGT on their first visit. We have had the luxury of being here before it was created and somewhat knowing how things work. Without that info, people could see DGT on their first visit and decide this isn't the place for them, without giving us a chance. The forum rules are in place. If I want to talk politics, I'll go to advrider.

Also, just because he said "it sucked" doesn't mean he didn't receive lots of emails suggesting DGT be removed. It's very possible there was more "get rid of it" than "keep it", even if you didn't see it publicly. I know there was a lot of "this sucks" at the start, and then many people just stopped posting there. It doesn't mean their opinions changed, just that they didn't like it and were staying away. You may say "great, let them stay away and leave it there". Just because they ignore it doesn't mean it's not still a stone in their shoe.

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I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America.
Alexis de Tocqueville


DGT started as a place where people poked at each other at first and then started evolving into less attack oriented discussion of the issues. DGT was killed to satisfy a few people (read whinners) who didn't or don't want controversial discussions on this board. Frankly, I would be stunned if the vast majority of the membership gave a rat's rear end that DGT existed. So be it. I'm disgusted by the whole thing and specifically by the unilateral decision to just blow it out without any warning to the people that actually used it. JD, I think you would agree with me that a few people posting that "this sucks" is not a good enough reason to kill it. What killed DGT was a few self important people on this board who decided that it had to go so it did. They have the power to do it so they did it. End of story, that's life. But just to remind everyone why DGT started... it was a way to segregate these discussions into an area away from the Campfire. My prediction is that you will see these discussions in the Campfire area again. Fact is that there is a segment of the membership that wants to discuss these issues. Blowing out DGT isn't going to change that.

JCabranes said:

I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America.
Alexis de Tocqueville


DGT started as a place where people poked at each other at first and then started evolving into less attack oriented discussion of the issues. DGT was killed to satisfy a few people (read whinners) who didn't or don't want controversial discussions on this board. Frankly, I would be stunned if the vast majority of the membership gave a rat's rear end that DGT existed. So be it. I'm disgusted by the whole thing and specifically by the unilateral decision to just blow it out without any warning to the people that actually used it. JD, I think you would agree with me that a few people posting that "this sucks" is not a good enough reason to kill it. What killed DGT was a few self important people on this board who decided that it had to go so it did. They have the power to do it so they did it. End of story, that's life. But just to remind everyone why DGT started... it was a way to segregate these discussions into an area away from the Campfire. My prediction is that you will see these discussions in the Campfire area again. Fact is that there is a segment of the membership that wants to discuss these issues. Blowing out DGT isn't going to change that.

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here's an honest reply and opinion as to why DGT got canned:

the truth is two fold. 1 i never ever received any sort of communication from a member that said "thank you, i'm glad DGT exists, thank you for your help." i received many communications stating the opposite, asking for elimination of DGT or a general disgust with the general direction and content of that forum. 2. DGT was becoming a huge drain on the moderating staff. i'm not afraid to admit that it definitely made my role as a moderator less enjoyable. i will let the others speak for themselves, if they wish. i'm still of mixed mindset on DGT, but will tend to agree with Dave that noble intentions led to less than what i had hoped for. i'm sorry, but it had nothing to do with "satisfying a few whiners" overall consensus was more against than for.

JCabranes said:

I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America.
Alexis de Tocqueville

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Great quote... from 1835.

JCabranes said:

Fact is that there is a segment of the membership that wants to discuss these issues. Blowing out DGT isn't going to change that.

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No one is stopping you from starting your own forum and doing and discussing whatever it is you'd like to do or discuss there.

JCabranes said:

I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America.
Alexis de Tocqueville


DGT started as a place where people poked at each other at first and then started evolving into less attack oriented discussion of the issues. DGT was killed to satisfy a few people (read whinners) who didn't or don't want controversial discussions on this board. Frankly, I would be stunned if the vast majority of the membership gave a rat's rear end that DGT existed. So be it. I'm disgusted by the whole thing and specifically by the unilateral decision to just blow it out without any warning to the people that actually used it. JD, I think you would agree with me that a few people posting that "this sucks" is not a good enough reason to kill it. What killed DGT was a few self important people on this board who decided that it had to go so it did. They have the power to do it so they did it. End of story, that's life. But just to remind everyone why DGT started... it was a way to segregate these discussions into an area away from the Campfire. My prediction is that you will see these discussions in the Campfire area again. Fact is that there is a segment of the membership that wants to discuss these issues. Blowing out DGT isn't going to change that.

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Yes, there were little people who publicy would write "Good sir" and in the backrooms, call people names. I'm aware of a lot more than one person who did so. Such people are two-faced and liars. As such, they deserve no time from me or respect.

Ironically, DGT was pulling in more postings and views than some of the "established" forums. There were a lot more people reading these threads than posting. This is similar to a newspaper. There are editorials, columnists, and opinion pages that all are eclipsed by the numbers of readers.

If we were to go by usage, probably nearly 40% of the forums here would be removed and this is stunning given the short time that DGT was available.

Yet, usage apparently was not a factor in the censorship. A few insecure vocal minority. When did the minority ever make decisions for the majority? The DGT poll a month or two ago had 2/3 rds of the members voting to retain DGT.

To be consistent, since we are a motorcycle club, for that is the stated removal of DGT - I hope that those who see anyone posting a food thread, a gardening thread, a photography thread that does not have a motorcyle in the picture, or anything non-motorcycle related thread be immediately reported to the moderators for removal. Of course, the moderators should already have such threads removed.

Be vigilant.

Once again PC wins!

What were we afraid of folks? A little dissonance is always healthy . . . and if you were offended or hypersensitive, the title of the forum was suggestive of its contents!

I do hope that the DGT threads begin to spill over into threads which are more related to child safety seats, safer toys, and nutritious snacks while on the road. Yeah, let's just keep talking about the latest GPS mounting system, blue tooth ready helmet, the new tank bag for the GS, or the real purpose behind the Iron Butt . . . wait a minute, I'm falling asleep

Perhaps we should all begin to wear ATGATT before coming into the website to get in the spirit of things and so no one gets hurt!

It would truly be a boring world if we all agreed on everything . . . just like the heavy handed administrators of this website and the backhanded use of private messages to encourage the end of the DGT forum.

RIP DGT!

Greg, I refer to the PC Police, with all due apologies to America's greatest, the Marines, as "Temper Fi." Angry faithful.

BubbaZanetti said:

... i received many communications stating the opposite, asking for elimination of DGT or a general disgust with the general direction and content of that forum. ....

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Well, I hope you don't start getting many complaints about the photography forum, there are also better places on the 'net for that.

I am willing to bet that most of the people who sent those communications never posted there, and disagreed with only one side of the general direction and content.
Silencing a message not agreed with seems a cheap way out, but yeah, if was a moderation nightmare, I do understand. There are other venues.

Maybe you guys missed an important part: It sucked to moderate that forum. It consumed more resources than the rest of the forums and the perception was that there weren't many members that posted there.

If you want to talk politics, step up to the big leagues: http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49

It's only a matter of time before someone starts to grumble about the Photography forum. I think there are pretty large differences between those two forums. The Photography forum seems to be attracting a wide range of members as posters. DGT did not.

It would be tempting to pull the PC card out and claim that DGT was removed because folks want to be PC. The truth is that DGT was a playground for small number of participants and the resources spent to support it did not warrant the effort.

Remember, I supported DGT at creation, but as it progressed, it was evident that it was only being used by a small number of members.

KBasa said:

Maybe you guys missed an important part: It sucked to moderate that forum. It consumed more resources than the rest of the forums and the perception was that there weren't many members that posted there.

If you want to talk politics, step up to the big leagues: http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49

It's only a matter of time before someone starts to grumble about the Photography forum. I think there are pretty large differences between those two forums. The Photography forum seems to be attracting a wide range of members as posters. DGT did not.

It would be tempting to pull the PC card out and claim that DGT was removed because folks want to be PC. The truth is that DGT was a playground for small number of participants and the resources spent to support it did not warrant the effort.

Remember, I supported DGT at creation, but as it progressed, it was evident that it was only being used by a small number of members.

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Used, perhaps. Read, no. Views in a relatively short time were eclipsing established forums. As I wrote above, if usage were one of the criteria. Other forums must go. If the reason were DGT was not motorcycle related, again, other forums and threads would have to go.

I do understand the moderators spending a lot of time and have not only defended them when warranted (and you) but have also thanked them at various times. So, if moderator resources were the case, what other solution do we have to retain DGT such as financing or other options?

BubbaZanetti said:

that's the spirit

and besides, there's actually more than 6 people who use it over there and the "mental challenge" is considerably greater (some of those guys REALLY know their stuff)

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In the retail business it usually isn't a good idea to say well if you don't like it you can go elsewhere. As the MOA looks at increasing membership we should keep that in mind. Telling folks they can find it at ADV rider won't increase our membership or forum usage. I for one will miss the DGT but it helps to know that the powers that be don't feel we're grown up enough to talk about big people stuff.

KBasa said:

Maybe you guys missed an important part: It sucked to moderate that forum. It consumed more resources than the rest of the forums and the perception was that there weren't many members that posted there.

If you want to talk politics, step up to the big leagues: http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49

It's only a matter of time before someone starts to grumble about the Photography forum. I think there are pretty large differences between those two forums. The Photography forum seems to be attracting a wide range of members as posters. DGT did not.

It would be tempting to pull the PC card out and claim that DGT was removed because folks want to be PC. The truth is that DGT was a playground for small number of participants and the resources spent to support it did not warrant the effort.

Remember, I supported DGT at creation, but as it progressed, it was evident that it was only being used by a small number of members.

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That is the best reason I have heard so far and I sympatize. Since I have not put myself out there to volunteer for being a Mod. I will refrain from any further critique.

KBasa said:

Maybe you guys missed an important part: It sucked to moderate that forum. It consumed more resources than the rest of the forums and the perception was that there weren't many members that posted there.

If you want to talk politics, step up to the big leagues: http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49

It's only a matter of time before someone starts to grumble about the Photography forum. I think there are pretty large differences between those two forums. The Photography forum seems to be attracting a wide range of members as posters. DGT did not.

It would be tempting to pull the PC card out and claim that DGT was removed because folks want to be PC. The truth is that DGT was a playground for small number of participants and the resources spent to support it did not warrant the effort.

Remember, I supported DGT at creation, but as it progressed, it was evident that it was only being used by a small number of members.

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Even I supported DGT to start with (I was one of the early people suggesting it - maybe the earliest? I'm not sure I want that distinction). I went from supporting the idea to neutral. I didn't like it, but I didn't lobby for its removal. I think people knew where I stood; I've posted in the past that I didn't find it useful, especially with new forum rules in place.

One thing with the photography forum; I see a number of people posting there who have never posted before. EXCELLENT. This is EXACTLY the type of thing we need. DGT didn't have the same results, so even if it had the many views, there is nothing saying it wasn't the same small group hitting "reload" time and time again.

As I said previously, I don't think we'll see "spill over" into other forum areas. We have set rules in place, and it makes moderating these things a "no brainer". We might have a few "doghouse" threads at first (if people can't control themselves), but in the end, I doubt there will be any long-term negative effects.

IMHO. YMMV.

i deleted my swarmy comment

its kinda like trying to get my wife to take out the garbage,
in the end after everything is said and done
I'm the one in slippers and a bathrobe takin out the garbage

JCabranes said:

There goes any illusion that the membership has a voice in the way things are run here.

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Ian is the formal voice of the membership.