Do not downshift..... do not

DarrylRi said:

In 500k miles I've never worn out a clutch -- and I've put about 100k miles on three of them. I've also never worn out a clutch in a car. (When we put a rebuilt motor in our '86 Mazda 626 with 180k miles on it, the mechanic asked if we wanted to put the old clutch back in as it was less than half worn.)

Just as you should practice your braking skills, you should practice your shifting -- especially downshifting. You should be able to downshift even into first (at an appropriate speed, of course) while riding smoothly, without chirping the rear tire.

If you ever take one of Reg Pridmore's CLASSes and get to ride on the back of his bike, you'll notice that you can't feel him shift gears, he is ultra smooth.

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Give me a break. I didn't ask for your advice on how to operate a motorcycle which I have been doing since 1965 (dirt & hardtop).

Frankly I'm not interest in your car history since individuals driving vary so much.

It might occur to you, I know more about cars/motos than you do.

end of rant.

How to shift your beemer: (1) Short shift between 1-2 & 2-3 on the way up and never downshift while rolling at any speed but a slow walking speed on the way down between 3-2 & 2-1. (2) On the 6 speed trans forget about 6th gear especially with the extra weight of a passenger and or luggage on board. (3) To help improve clutch, throttle, and shifter co-ordination try riding with the choke control set on the fast idle position. By practicing these steps I'll wager your trans input shafts will remain as new at 100K miles provided there is good engine/trans alignment which I believe there most likely always is. Input shaft splines do not like shock simple as that so if you want to pop that clutch and ride like a fool get a ninja.

Downshifting puts less stress than upshifting and opening the throttle. Far more HP in acceleration than deceleration. Downshifting won't hurt the transmission, assuming of course that the person doing the shifting is actually using the clutch during the shift process.

torags said:

Give me a break. I didn't ask for your advice on how to operate a motorcycle which I have been doing since 1965 (dirt & hardtop).

Frankly I'm not interest in your car history since individuals driving vary so much.

It might occur to you, I know more about cars/motos than you do.

end of rant.

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You're the one who started a thread with 'do not downshift'. Just sayin'.

If I can't down shift my BMW without breaking it, I'll sell it and by something more durable.

Transmission miss alignment is well documented and most likely the cause. IMHO.

PS If you don't want opinions then don't post.

c'mon guys, lighten up. Methinks his Zanax script ran out.

torags said:

Give me a break. I didn't ask for your advice on how to operate a motorcycle which I have been doing since 1965 (dirt & hardtop).

Frankly I'm not interest in your car history since individuals driving vary so much.

It might occur to you, I know more about cars/motos than you do.

end of rant.

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Idon't understand what was you posting about, but it implied that you cause a damage that cost $2k, for downshifting. One might think two things, there is something wrong with your transmission of you don't downshift correctly.

I downshift all the way to 1st gear, blip the throttle, with practice becomes natural and smooth. I have to say it takes some practice to master down-shifting while breaking.
even my 140k miles civic, I bought it with 80kmiles, and I haven't had the need to change break paths, and the clutch is just as healthy.

lgg.

billpierce said:

PS If you don't want opinions then don't post.

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Or, be a little more specific about your "problem".

Hey Jim you hit the nail on the head.

It was transmission misalignment. It is a manufacturer defect. BTW I have 28,000 miles on the bike.

The tech told me he has had a few of them and it took a long time for them (BMW) to figure it out. The tech said it would never happen again since he changed the casting.

I wondered how the tech could order parts before he took it apart. I'm going to try to get BMW to pay for all or some of it.

Thanks for your response Jim Moore

I posted to ventilate, not to ask advice on how to operate a motorcycle, read the words. BTW I was wrong about the downshifting, thank goodness - my habit can continue.

If you mean "don't throw it down a gear and snap the clutch out so the bikes gets all loopy", yeah. But properly matching rpm and smoothly engaging the next gear down isn't a problem at all.

torags said:

I posted to ventilate, not to ask advice on how to operate a motorcycle, read the words. BTW I was wrong about the downshifting, thank goodness - my habit can continue.

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I'm not sure what your "downshifting habit" into/in corners really is. Hopefully you are not downshifting to slow the bike down for a corner instead of using the brakes (although a little throttle roll-off to bleed a little speed off is OK). As somebody said earlier, that's what the brakes are for.

torags said:

Give me a break. I didn't ask for your advice on how to operate a motorcycle which I have been doing since 1965 (dirt & hardtop).

Frankly I'm not interest in your car history since individuals driving vary so much.

It might occur to you, I know more about cars/motos than you do.

end of rant.

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Dude - you're the one who posted that your shifting cost you $2K in repairs. Don't get mad at us when we ask you if perhaps you're not operating your bike correctly.

You came here asking for advice. Don't shoot the messenger if you don't like the free advice you came here to get.

OK...I Can't Hold Back Anymore!

BeemerMike said:

I'm not sure what your "downshifting habit" into/in corners really is. Hopefully you are not downshifting to slow the bike down for a corner instead of using the brakes (although a little throttle roll-off to bleed a little speed off is OK). As somebody said earlier, that's what the brakes are for.

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Comments are not aimed at BeemerMike but the concept of not using your engine compression to slow bike..

Geee Wheeezzz...[insert much stronger invective]...I really could care less how anyone rides their bike...that is their business...but don't shut the door on riders that downshift and brake separately or concurrently to slow down...a lot of fine racers and road riders set up their bikes for corners or surface changes by using both the transmission and brakes...to say that brakes are cheaper than transmissions is one of those "when did you stop beating your wife" meaningless comments...

Good grief folks take a wider view...like Anton said the transmission has to be downshifted at some point...and excellence in riding would dictate that you use ALL the tools in the box...brakes and transmission to name only two..

Ps...If my BMW will not hold up under decelerating via downshifting...I need to get a different bike..Hey, anybody what to discuss double-clutching or shifting without using the clutch?

Wallowa said:

Comments are not aimed at BeemerMike but the concept of not using your engine compression to slow bike..

Geee Wheeezzz...[insert much stronger invective]...I really could care less how anyone rides their bike...that is their business...but don't shut the door on riders that downshift and brake separately or concurrently to slow down...a lot of fine racers and road riders set up their bikes for corners or surface changes by using both the transmission and brakes...to say that brakes are cheaper than transmissions is one of those "when did you stop beating your wife" meaningless comments...

Good grief folks take a wider view...like Anton said the transmission has to be downshifted at some point...and excellence in riding would dictate that you use ALL the tools in the box...brakes and transmission to name only two..

Ps...If my BMW will not hold up under decelerating via downshifting...I need to get a different bike..Hey, anybody what to discuss double-clutching or shifting without using the clutch?

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Downshifting is a valuable speed management tool - but you should be careful under what circumstances you use it.

For example, when using engine compression to slow a bike, your rear brake light is not activated. Vehicles behind you have no way of knowing you're slowing down. My RT has tremendous engine braking power, and I can slow from 70 mph to a crawl using only engine compression very quickly - but a driver behind me would have no idea I was slowing down unless they were looking for clues other than my brake light.

So - even if engine braking is your preferred option, you might consider lightly activating your brake light in order to warn drivers behind you that you're slowing/stopping.

All I want to know is if he ever parked on a sidewalk, threw paper on the same sidewalk, and then ran over flowers.

dvandkq said:

Downshifting is a valuable speed management tool - but you should be careful under what circumstances you use it.

For example, when using engine compression to slow a bike, your rear brake light is not activated. Vehicles behind you have no way of knowing you're slowing down. My RT has tremendous engine braking power, and I can slow from 70 mph to a crawl using only engine compression very quickly - but a driver behind me would have no idea I was slowing down unless they were looking for clues other than my brake light.

So - even if engine braking is your preferred option, you might consider lightly activating your brake light in order to warn drivers behind you that you're slowing/stopping.

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without a doubt! i usually just pulse the handbrake lightly while downshifting, just to get people's attention......

Wallowa said:

Comments are not aimed at BeemerMike but the concept of not using your engine compression to slow bike...

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I never said not to ever use engine compression to slow down a bike. In fact, I said just the opposite.

My point was not to use DOWNSHIFTING and engine compression braking as a SUBSTITUTE for using your wheel brakes when you have to really slow down (and if you have to downshift for a corner to get the correct corner speed, then you are probably in a situation of having to really slow down). If you are riding along at a good clip in 5th gear and need to lose a lot of speed for a corner, and as you approach a corner you downshift to 4th, let the clutch out to slow the bike some, then downshift to 3rd, let out the clutch to slow the bike more, and so on without using the wheel brakes, then IMHO that is bad riding technique. You should be using the wheel brakes to slow the bike down and downshifting to the gear you will need to accelerate through and out of the corner. The wheel brakes are much easier to modulate than trying to balance the the clutch and throttle as weight transfers to the front and unloads the rear wheel (which of course causes some potential problems with engine compression braking).

However, if you are riding along and need to bleed off a little speed for a corner, then sure, roll off the throttle a little and let the engine slow the bike down.

Of course, it's everyone's own butt and bike on the line out there, so downshift and engine brake all you want to!

billpierce said:

If I can't down shift my BMW without breaking it, I'll sell it and by something more durable.

Transmission miss alignment is well documented and most likely the cause. IMHO.

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+1, good point Bill, and it is what I'm wrestling with right now.

2004 R1150R.......55,000 touring miles.........fragged bearing in the transmission carrying the input shaft..........dry, severely worn splines on clutch portion of input shaft necessitating clutch plate replacement...........experienced rider who uses appropriate level of engine braking when riding.

Dealer and I noticed that the splines were bone dry, most likely little or no lube straight from the factory. I dunno which failure came first (transmission bearing or clutch splines), but I can surmise it is a misalignment issue, unless no spline lube from the factory was the main culprit. On a related note, the fiber part of the clutch plate had plenty of meat on it when removed, so no clutch abuse. As expected, BMW denied any warranty or goodwill coverage even though the bike was barely 3 years old, and the parts that failed had no requirement (or expectation) to be regularly serviced.

As it so happens, I was planning to purchase a new ride for this spring, but it is doubtful that it will be another BMW. I'm not trying to be a hater of the bikes, I enjoy their power characteristics, and the "feel" of the chasis, but I'm not too fond of the company itself in relation to their quality control or treatment of the customer.

YMMV.

Motorcyclist said:

+1, good point Bill, and it is what I'm wrestling with right now.

2004 R1150R.......55,000 touring miles.........fragged bearing in the transmission carrying the input shaft..........dry, severely worn splines on clutch portion of input shaft necessitating clutch plate replacement...........experienced rider who uses appropriate level of engine braking when riding.

Dealer and I noticed that the splines were bone dry, most likely little or no lube straight from the factory. I dunno which failure came first (transmission bearing or clutch splines), but I can surmise it is a misalignment issue, unless no spline lube from the factory was the main culprit. On a related note, the fiber part of the clutch plate had plenty of meat on it when removed, so no clutch abuse. As expected, BMW denied any warranty or goodwill coverage even though the bike was barely 3 years old, and the parts that failed had no requirement (or expectation) to be regularly serviced.

As it so happens, I was planning to purchase a new ride for this spring, but it is doubtful that it will be another BMW. I'm not trying to be a hater of the bikes, I enjoy their power characteristics, and the "feel" of the chasis, but I'm not too fond of the company itself in relation to their quality control or treatment of the customer.

YMMV.

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It was transmission misalignment. It is a manufacturer defect. BTW I have 28,000 miles on the bike 2004 R1150RS.

The tech told me he has had a few of them and it took a long time for them (BMW) to figure it out. The tech said it would never happen again since he changed the casting.

I wondered how the tech could order parts before he took it apart. I'm going to try to get BMW to pay for all or some of it.

Consider having it fixed and suing them in small claims court. A company who charges a premium for their product & service should be held to a higher standard.

In my case, I will request with certified mail and if they don't respond I'll serve them. I'm not going to play with this, let the judge make a decision since we have a dispute.

torags said:

It was transmission misalignment. It is a manufacturer defect. BTW I have 28,000 miles on the bike 2004 R1150RS.

The tech told me he has had a few of them and it took a long time for them (BMW) to figure it out. The tech said it would never happen again since he changed the casting.

I wondered how the tech could order parts before he took it apart. I'm going to try to get BMW to pay for all or some of it.

Consider having it fixed and suing them in small claims court. A company who charges a premium for their product & service should be held to a higher standard.

In my case, I will request with certified mail and if they don't respond I'll serve them. I'm not going to play with this, let the judge make a decision since we have a dispute.

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Please let me know how you make out. I have a formal letter in to them as well, and am awaiting a response. The day I see a pig fly, is the exact date that I expect to receive a reply