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Thread: 2008 Formula One Thread

  1. #196
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    A lap of Sao Paulo with Robert Kubica


  2. #197
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    BRAZILAIN GP Qualifying and Race Info

    FIM.com: The circuit information

    weather.com: Sau Paulo Brazil

    FRIDAY: Practices Times
    Session 1
    Session 2

    SATURDAY:
    Practice
    QUALIFYING

    STANDINGS
    Team
    Driver


    Massa takes the pole with Trulli‘«÷s Toyota alongside. Hamilton in P4 on the outside of Kimi Raikkonen make up row two.

    Heidfeld starts in P8 for BMW and his team mate Kubica did not make it out of Q2 and into Q3 stats in P13!

    The weather prediction is for rain on Sunday. The announcers are all second guessing pit strategy. How light cars are run will make a difference in the order through turn 1. Turn 1 will be important as ever but the Formula1 starting fight at Interlogos is not over until you get through the third corner.

    Getting to left hand turn 1 first is always important; however, at Interlogos it is a relatively shot shoot to right hand turn 2. Your win in turn 1 can quick be taken away by the guy in P2 as you fight your way through the second turn and he is better set up for it and keeps you to the outside. This fight takes you to the sweeping left that is turn three and sets you up to take control of the race in the first real straight.

    BMW is not placed well. Heidfeld starts in P8 and lines up on the dirty side of the track. His challenge will be to negotiate the pile of cars in front of him through the first three corners. The moving pile, if everyone makes it through cleanly or more importantly not getting caught up in a crash in the first lap.

    Kubica starts in P13 on the preferred inside line. The drivers that surround him are use to this portion of the starting grid and will not do anything particularly stupid in an effort to miraculously advance at the start. Kubica‘«÷s challenge is how much ground can he make up on the starting straight and where does he stand as he enters turn 1. Turn 1 is the most important issue for him than other drivers in his hopes for getting a podium finish for the driver‘«÷s title this year.

    Qualifying was completed in dry conditions. The prediction is for a 80% chance of rain on Sunday.

  3. #198
    cheesewhiz
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    I know you are just joking but, do NOT bite the hand that feeds you!





    Quote Originally Posted by Statdawg View Post
    I am starting to think that you are tied into the military grade super computers that the F1 teams have. The Q's just ended and you have the results up already.

    Do you have any information on the drag and wind dynamics analysis with todays changes or are the engineers not in agreement yet ? Is it to early to ask for tomorrows agenda ?







  4. #199
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Brazilian Grand Prix ‘«Ű Gallery

    Heidfeld sixth on Brazilian Grand Prix grid

    Mixed emotions for the BMW Sauber F1 Team: While Nick Heidfeld delivered in solid style to secure eighth on the Brazilian GP grid, Robert Kubica encountered another difficult qualifying session. The Pole had to make do with 13th.

    In the first knockout phase of qualifying, both BMW Sauber F1 Team drivers easily advanced to Q2. Both drivers went out twice and both set their personal best times on their second runs. Nick crossed the line in 1:12.371 minutes to finish ninth, while Robert was exactly one hundredth-of-a-second slower than his team-mate. With his 1:12.381-minute lap, he secured tenth. The fastest time of Q1, a 1:11.830-minute lap, was set by Ferrari's local hero, Felipe Massa.

    Eliminated: Kazuki Nakajima, Jenson Button, Nico Rosberg, Giancarlo Fisichella and Adrian Sutil.

    While Nick had no problems advancing to the top-ten shootout, Q2 meant the end of Robert's qualifying efforts. On his first run, the 23-year-old set a 1:12.300-minute lap to finish twelfth, while on his second he failed to improve. At the end of day he finished 13th. Nick, however, delivered in impressive style. At the second split time of his first flying lap the German even was the quickest of the entire field. When he crossed the line in 1:12.026 minutes he held sixth. Nick also went out for a second run but aborted it when it became obvious that none of the drivers behind him would be able to go faster. This time, McLaren's Heikki Kovalainen was the quickest, setting a 1:11.768-minute lap.

    Eliminated: Nelson Piquet, Mark Webber, Robert Kubica, David Coulthard and Rubens Barrichello.

    Having been 1.2 seconds slower than in Q2, Nick had to settle for qualifying eight. On his first run, the 31-year-old set a 1:13.603-minute lap, while on his second he improved to 1:13.297. Eighth position on the grid should allow Nick to add more points to his and the BMW Sauber F1 Team's tallies. Pole position was secured by Massa, while the Brazilian's World Championship rival, McLaren's Lewis Hamilton, had to settle for fourth on the grid.

    Result: 1st Felipe Massa, 2nd Jarno Trulli, 3rd Kimi R?Ůikk?¬nen, 4th Lewis Hamilton, 5th Heikki Kovalainen, 6th Fernando Alonso, 7th Sebastian Vettel, 8th Nick Heidfeld, 9th S?ģbastien Bourdais, 10th Timo Glock.



    Reactions to qualifying sessions

    While Nick Heidfeld made it easily into the top ten and qualified eighth for the Brazilian Grand Prix, Robert Kubica struggled with a lack of grip and dropped out in the second part of qualifying. The Pole only qualified 13th in Interlagos.

    Nick Heidfeld: "Qualifying was okay for me. In Q3 I thought in the end I could have improved more than the three tenths of a second I managed from the harder to the softer compound, but I have to say it was a good lap and I just couldn't do any better. I really hope for a good race tomorrow."

    Robert Kubica: "This is obviously not the best position for tomorrow's race. This is the second weekend in a row that I have been struggling with the overall grip of the car. Starting from so far behind will make the race very difficult for me."

    Mario Theissen (BMW Motorsport Director): "Traditionally on this track the time differences in qualifying are very close. Sometimes five or six cars are within one tenth of a second. A driver who is not able to fully exploit the potential there and then will find himself on the back of the grid. We are not happy with our result and, especially for Robert, the situation is not easy for the race. He has been suffering from lack of grip throughout the whole weekend, and we did not completely solve the problem in qualifying. Nick did better and set the eighth quickest time. Only tomorrow when we get to the first set of pit stops shall we see what we can do from here."

    Willy Rampf (Technical Director): "We cannot be happy with our qualifying. Robert did not make it beyond Q2. Ten cars were within three tenths of a second, so with only the slightest mistake one is out. Nick did better. Our goal is now to make up a few positions."



    Statdawg ‘«Ű no tie in to military super computers, like many F-1 teams finally figured out how to use some of the power I had during the season finally for the last race.

  5. #200
    cheesewhiz
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    Mika,
    I had heard that Mc Claren was to run a new rear wing this weekend.
    Is this in fact true and, do you have any pics?

    Thanks!!!


  6. #201
    cheesewhiz
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    It's nice to see Seabass 9th

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesewhiz View Post
    Mika,
    I had heard that Mc Claren was to run a new rear wing this weekend.
    Is this in fact true and, do you have any pics?

    Thanks!!!

    It is true, but I don't have any pics. What I do have is a link to formula1.com's technical section and their explination of the changes.

  8. #203
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    Provisional ‘«Ű in F1 you never know until the race results are certified

    Masa wins the race and Hamilton the Drivers Championship
    Ferrari wins the Constructors Championship

    Standings
    Driver
    Team

    I began writing a summary about lap sixty and blew it away with rain and lap sixty five.
    Brazil this year was a great race to watch with frustrating outcomes if you are Ferrari and BMW.

    Heidfeld ‘«Ű P10 -1L
    Kubica ‘«Ű P11 -1L

  9. #204
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    BMW's Sunday wrap

    Brazilian GP – Gallery
    Season Finale becomes weather gamble
    BMW-Sauber-f1.com
    The Brazilian Grand Prix proved to be an extremely difficult race for the BMW Sauber F1 Team. At the end of the day, Nick Heidfeld finished tenth and Robert Kubica had to settle for finishing eleventh. Meanwhile, McLaren's Lewis Hamilton finished fifth to secure the drivers' title.

    Just before the scheduled start of the 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix, a short, but heavy, downpour thwarted the strategic plans of the BMW Sauber F1 Team. The start was subsequently delayed by ten minutes and although the rain had stopped when the field started the formation lap, everybody, apart from Robert, was on intermediates. However, the Pole's gamble didn't pay off and at the end of the warm-up lap he pitted for intermediates - and consequently had to start the race from the pit lane.

    Meanwhile, Nick lost several positions at the start and dropped back to twelfth. He subsequently moved up to eighth after passing Rubens Barrichello and Mark Webber. As the conditions improved quickly and everybody had to come in for dry-weather tyres between laps 8 and 12, Nick was unable to benefit from his strategy and rejoined in tenth position, while Robert held seventeenth.

    Neither Nick or Robert was able to gain ground. Nick had what it takes to match the pace of the cars in front of him, but further overtaking proved to be virtually impossible. However, the weather gamble was not yet over. Seven laps before the finish, another rain shower hit the "Autodromo Jose Carlos Pace".

    Nick and Robert both pitted for intermediates even before the rain had begun to fall, but unfortunately for the Munich and Hinwil based squad the rain shower wasn't as heavy as the one encountered prior to the start. One lap later, the rest of the field also pitted for intermediates. Robert succeeded in passing four opponents to move up to eleventh, while Nick remained tenth, but both had to leave Sao Paulo empty-handed.

    The fight for the drivers' title, however, was a breath-taking affair: When Felipe Massa (Ferrari) crossed the line as race winner he appeared to be the new world champions, as Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) had dropped back to sixth. But Hamilton got past Timo Glock (Toyota) in the final combination of corners, thus improving to fifth and securing the championship.

    On equal points with Kimi R?Ůikk?¬nen (Ferrari), Robert ends the season in fourth position in the Drivers' Championship. Nick finishes in sixth place in this classification. In the Constructors' Championship, the BMW Sauber F1 Team finishes third with 135 points, with Ferrari winning the title.



    BMW Sauber F1 Team - Brazilian Grand Prix – Race
    11-02-2008 Press Release
    Weather: Showers, 26-30??C Air, 20-38??C Track


    Interlagos (BR). The BMW Sauber F1 Team had a disappointing final to what was a very successful season. At the Brazilian Grand Prix at Interlagos Nick Heidfeld and Robert Kubica finished tenth and eleventh. For the first time since 34 races (2006 Brazilian Grand Prix) the team failed to score in a race. Kubica finished fourth in the championship behind Kimi R?Ůikk?¬nen, with both of them having scored 75 points. Heidfeld is sixth in the final standings, with 60 points. In the Constructors’ championship the BMW Sauber F1 Team is third (135 points).


    Nick Heidfeld: 10th
    BMW Sauber F1.08-07 / BMW P86/8
    Fastest lap 1:14.652 min on lap 41 (10th fastest overall)
    “My biggest problem today was the start. I just had too much wheel spin, so I literally stuck on the spot. Then I had a few good overtaking manoeuvres and gained positions. Later the balance of my car tended to become very difficult and, especially when I was behind Jarno Trulli, I lost downforce. Later in the race I was behind Mark Webber and tried to fight him, which ruined my tyres. When the first rain drops appeared with eight laps to go I gambled and pitted for intermediates. There was nothing to lose. I was tenth, but unfortunately I stayed tenth. Anyway we didn’t have a good race today, but nevertheless we had a good season. Congratulations to the world champions!”

    Robert Kubica: 11th
    BMW Sauber F1.08-05 / BMW P86/8
    Fastest lap 1:14.375 min on lap 61 (9th fastest overall)
    “Losing third place in the Drivers’ championship in the last race is definitely not the best situation. We made too many mistakes during the weekend and this is the result. Unfortunately I started on dry tyres, as we had the wrong information about the track conditions. During the race I was stuck behind Adrian Sutil for quite a long time. I managed to make up some positions in the final laps of the race, but it was too late. Congratulations to Ferrari and Lewis Hamilton!”


    Mario Theissen (BMW Motorsport Director):
    “As last year, it was a dramatic final. Lewis Hamilton clinched his title literally on the last kilometre of this race – congratulations, also to Ferrari! For our team it was a disappointing finish to a very strong season.”


    Willy Rampf (Technischer Director):
    “For our team this was an end of season to forget. With Robert we gambled at the start with dry tyres, but the track was too wet. Therefore he pitted immediately for a tyre change, and after this found himself at the end of the field. From here there was nothing he could do. Nick lost position right after the start. Even pitting earlier than others at the end of the race did not change the situation. Nevertheless it was a very successful season for our team, and this race doesn’t change this. Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton and to Ferrari for winning the championship.”

  10. #205
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    Understanding the Formula One: Steering Wheel and related.


    So the day after the last race he understands the steering wheel, hope springs for the 2009 season.

  11. #206
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    After the Brazilian GP about all I can say is WOW!

    But that has never stopped me in the past.

    The drama of the race was palpable. With various championships at stake and all the lead up the drama was only increased by the rain delayed start.

    The 10 minute delay allowed teams five minutes and announcers ten to kibitz over tire selection to start the race. The starting race tires must be affixed to the car five minutes prior to the start of the race. The extra five minutes allows teams to clear the starting grid leaving drivers and cars.

    Kubica‘«÷s dive into the pits after the formation doomed his chance for a podium finish in the Driver‘«÷s Championship. He tied with Raikkonen in points but lost out in tie breakers.

    The front runners were able to make it through the first three corners without the feared crash. However; one of them must have been leaking large quantities of irony. Coulthard slipped on the irony that he started his F1 career with Williams and would end it in turn two being knocked out of his final race by a Williams car. In doing so he must have splashed any remaining irony on the track up and onto the Speedtv announcers who spent the rest of the race reminding us of it while they tried to get it off every time Coulthard‘«÷s name was mentioned.

    Qualifying times separated P2 through P19 by less than a second. On the race track this resulted in many incredible duels and great frustration at times. I agonized with Kubica as lap after lap he had a 0.2 second gap between him and Sutil. He could maintain pace but the parity of cars in this final race made it all but impossible for him to pass. When he did pass in one case it was by following in Hamilton‘«÷s slip stream as the car he had been dueling with in front of him moved over to allow a lead lap car pass. Both unfortunately remained a lap down to the Massas and Hamiltons of the race.

    Rain at the finish jumbled everything once again and resulted in the championship being decided after the checkered flag had dropped on the race winning championship contender.

    Today everyone in F1 must be scratching their heads including Bernie Ecclestone and me. The economics of F1 continue to demand that savings must be found, but I hope not at the expense of the sport.

    Engines: Engine parity can be found without going to a third party engine provider. Ferrari factory and factory supplied engines were trading fast laps all race. McLaren was able to maintain contact with the front on engines said to be tuned to the conservative side so that they would survive to the checkered flag. BMWs suffered from qualifying not power. Renaults were in the hunt and even Hondas had power this weekend.

    Parity can be reached but how to achieve savings.

    Chassis: If Speedtv‘«÷s commentary is to be believed McLaren in the last weeks of the season spent roughly a third of what a NASCAR team spends to run the entire year. This on chassis development alone. I don‘«÷t have the answer but there must be savings to be had, parity to be gained and great racing to be enjoyed as a result of almost any solution there.

    Rules: All sorts of rules are coming into play for 2009 and more are being talked about. I am not a F1 or FIA legislator so I will leave it to them. My deepest hope is the sport finds a way to deal with the intertwining of qualifying, pit stops and the safety car before someone gets killed.


    2009

    So where does all of this leave me? Well frankly I am scratching my head wondering about team management for BMW.

    At one point I expected to write either a farewell to Heidfeld or a condemnation at the end of the season. When he was signed for 2009 I began some research into perfect laps as the basis for my condemnation and was surprised instead.

    The perfect lap is imaginary. Take the best sector time from all drivers for a race for each sector add them up and you have a perfect lap. Then do the same for Heidfeld and the pole winner. I expected the order to be 1-perfect lap 2-pole winner and a distant third to be Heidfeld. To my surprise in many more cases Heidfeld was better than the pole winner and his team mate. Heidfeld can do very fast sector times, even set the best sector time. He just can not string two or three together in one lap to win a pole. For Heidfeld qualifying position is the key determiner as to where he finishes in most races.

    BMWs team qualifying strategy is not working for Heidfeld. If the numbers in fact mean he has the skills then the problem in getting him qualified as high as possible is in the team strategy for him.

    Kubica has the skills also. The problem for team managers is what makes him fast on the track in terms of setup appears to be drastically different than what makes Heidfeld fast. The team has settled on these two for 2009. Can the team management deal with the implications. Let‘«÷s just say I am very cautious about this point and 2009.

    I have posted about the various seasons within the F1 season and won‘«÷t go into them again. For the BMWs hopes in the 2009 Constructors Championship I would add a line item to their budget for a good baseball manager.

    I am not a baseball person as player or fan. I do have many including coaches and managers of non professional teams in my extended family. They spend hours thinking through various scenarios, their implications and what to do. They plan for the most obscure things until the answer is spontaneous. Once confronted with a scenario in real life they analyze it and rethink it to death after the fact. I don‘«÷t get the sense that the BMW team is even at a minor league coach‘«÷s level. I hope I am wrong.

    I will continue to post things like the steering wheel video as they come up but for the most part I am winding down my 2008 F1 coverage. I hope you enjoyed it.

    2009

    BMW has tentatively scheduled the release event for the 2009 car for 20 January 2009. I will start the 2009 F1 thread with the release information and photographs.

    I hope in the 2009 thread more of you will feel free to comment. I enjoy bringing the news to F1 fans but I like hearing your comments just as much. I like finding answers to questions. I post here as one covering BMW, I would love to share the 2009 thread with others coving F1 from other teams perspective. I think we could have a lot of fun with that.


  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    Rain at the finish jumbled everything once again and resulted in the championship being decided after the checkered flag had dropped on the race winning championship contender.
    Massa had more victories this year, but Hamilton won the championship by one point. I think the SpeedTV guys said that is the first time this has happened in 20 years. The F1 points system used to provide a lot more "reward" for winning the race rather than coming in second (9 points vs. 6), whereas now there is not that much of a difference between first and second (10 points vs. 8). Sounds more like NASCAR.

    To me, its seems there should be a bigger reward for winning than there is now. If second place gets you 8 points, then maybe winning should get you 12 points (the 50% more logic that used to exist).

    Do you know if anyone has run the numbers to see what the 2008 results would have been with a 12-8-6 . . . points system?
    Mike White
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  13. #208
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    Mike the short answer is I don‘«÷t know but I will look and see what I find.

    Right now I am trying to get my arms around the implications the proposal of awarding medals like the Olympics to the podium finishers in each race and then determining the championship based on medals won.

    In the past I wondered if of all things golf provided a better model. You are awarded points on your finishing position the one with the lowest score at the end of the season is champion.

    I will see what I can find out in the off season that has started.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    Right now I am trying to get my arms around the implications the proposal of awarding medals like the Olympics to the podium finishers in each race and then determining the championship based on medals won.
    Yeah, when I heard them mention that Olympic medal system, I kind of thought "WTF?!" Hopefully, Bernie was just off his Prozac.
    Mike White
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  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    Mike the short answer is I don‘«÷t know but I will look and see what I find.
    My brain must have been tired yesterday.

    Since Massa had one more win than Hamilton, if winning was worth 12 points instead of 10 points (i.e., 2 more), then since all the other places would stay the same, Massa would have had two extra points relative to Hamilton, and would have won the world championship by one point instead of losing by one point.
    Mike White
    MOA Life Time Member #57882
    '13 K1300S "30 Years", '95 R1100RS, '88 K75S, '97 Ducati 916, '95 Ducati 900SS CR. Gone, but not forgotten, '75 R90S

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