BMW Synthetic vs. Mobil 1 Oil

mooseel said:

I would like to end the Great Debate. Please everyone read, print out and give to all your riding buddies, the following .pdf file.
//http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

I have never seen this kind of info from any other Synthetic Manufacturer and you probably won't. Read and understand the data and the results.

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End the Great Debate? I don't wish to appear overly cynical (or self-interested), but a study where the protocol was set up by Amsoil (although performed by an independent lab) concludes that Amsoil is the "best" oil (although I would note that Mobil 1 came in a close second) ends the debate? I'm shocked . . . shocked at the result!

The important question is whether the tests performed in the Amsoil study (and I have read it) are the best tests to indicate real-world performance in YOUR engine, transmission, or FD. Some oil/lubricant manufacturers claim there are other tests (such as long-term engine operation durability tests, which are a LOT more expensive to perform than a four-ball test) that are better indicators of protection.

Who is right? I don't know. But, before you pay a big premium for an oil such as Amsoil, you should at least think about it. One thing I do know is that Mobil 1 is used in a lot of racing applications and is the factory fill in a lot of high-performance cars. Yes, I'm sure there is "money changing hands", but I don't think McLaren-Mecedes F1 is going to put an inferior oil in their 19,200 rpm engines, or that Porsche is going to put it in all of their engines if they did not have at least a little confidence in the oil, just to get a couple of bucks from ExxonMobil.

Don't take it to Heart

BeemerMike said:

End the Great Debate? I don't wish to appear overly cynical (or self-interested), but a study where the protocol was set up by Amsoil (although performed by an independent lab) concludes that Amsoil is the "best" oil (although I would note that Mobil 1 came in a close second) ends the debate? I'm shocked . . . shocked at the result!

The important question is whether the tests performed in the Amsoil study (and I have read it) are the best tests to indicate real-world performance in YOUR engine, transmission, or FD. Some oil/lubricant manufacturers claim there are other tests (such as long-term engine operation durability tests, which are a LOT more expensive to perform than a four-ball test) that are better indicators of protection.

Who is right? I don't know. But, before you pay a big premium for an oil such as Amsoil, you should at least think about it. One thing I do know is that Mobil 1 is used in a lot of racing applications and is the factory fill in a lot of high-performance cars. Yes, I'm sure there is "money changing hands", but I don't think McLaren-Mecedes F1 is going to put an inferior oil in their 19,200 rpm engines, or that Porsche is going to put it in all of their engines if they did not have at least a little confidence in the oil, just to get a couple of bucks from ExxonMobil.

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Hi Mike,

Thanks for reading the study. I think it's amaizing how personally people take the question of what oil is best. I frankly like Mobil1 and have thought of switching for cost sake, but based on my interpretation of the results, I'm lead to believe that Amsoil motorcycle oils are the best. What I was hoping people would do is read the study and take an objective view of the oils and learn from the data and the tests, which oils they might want to use and which ones not to. I think this study gives people the ability to make their own decision in a somewhat educated fashion, rather than just going by what someone else says.

As for Amsoil's motivation, and considering that there are different tests out there, what study, poll, exam can't be scewed to show some kind of intended result. If one reads the study, they would see that Amsoil did not top the list in every category, some they explained the different importances of, but they did not or could not scew the tests to make their oil top the list in every category. It seams to me that with some of the results, some Synthetic Oil makers would be scared to have such a test done. Does Amsoil formulate their oils to be the best or just to appear the best? You mentioned other tests about the longevity of oils, I feel based on other tests (oxidation & acid neutralization for example) in the study, not just the 4 ball test, that Amsoil would do fine in any longevity test. Of course Motorcycle oils, are not formulated for longevity as say Shell's Rotella, this kind of longevity is mostly important to the trucking industry and not so much the motorcycle market. I have yet to see the kind of filtration on a motorcycle that would permit oil to be used for the kind of duration that the trucking industry gets out of their oil. Thus being apples and oranges.

Please everyone be objective and read and understand the data then make your own choice! Maybe I sounded a little arrogant, but I believe in Amsoil for my own reasons, and I did my own research, minus the funds for my own expesive study and years of chemistry education. To date, I have not seen a more complete study that shows actual data from industry recognized tests. I have seen other Synthetic Oil makers websites where their only technical data they list, states that it lowers the engines temp by x number of degrees. Personally I'm more concerned about an oils ability to stand up to what ever temp the engine and conditions create, without causing damage to the engine.

After re-examining the data and results, I would say that both Mobil 1 and BMW synthetic are good respectable oils and my statement of "Neither" was once again arrogant.

Good luck all in finding what you personally believe to be the best, I just hope it's based on something other than how COOL a product they make themselves out to be, for your bikes sake and yours, considering you don't have much protection out there.

BMW Motorcycle oils

Uh... Guys... Uh.. Not picking on Mobil 1 or any brand, but I've been told by a few reliable sources that BMW recommends Castrol worldwide except for the USA. Not sure why but it seems to be Amsoil only in North America. (Can you find Amsoil easily in the third world?) Many BMW Motorcycle Dealers (especially multi-brand shops) in the US use Castrol Dino (from 55 Gallon Drums) in everything. I gotta agree with the guys about 'clean' and 'some' begin better than 'dirty' and 'none'...

Ron

mooseel said:

Thanks for reading the study. I think it's amaizing how personally people take the question of what oil is best.

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I have a friend who SWEARS by Amsoil for his motorycles, and he sent me an e-copy of the Amsoil study last year. The Amsoil study does have lots of good data and information. The point I was making is that there is other information out there too that should also be considered. I am sure that Amsoil is a fine oil, but you pay a premium for it over Mobil 1, so you have to decide if it is worth it. I agree that there are a lot of people out there who defend to the death an oil that they have almost no data about.

It's kind of funny . . . we have several threads where people are trying to find the perfect $2 oil filter . . . and then others where people praise $12 engine oil. Me . . . I'm running BMW (Mahle) oil filters and Mobil 1 engine oil and gear lubricants.

I put in the type and brand of oil the dealer says should be put in.

I have it changed when they say it should be changed.

I pay them to put the oil in because I don't like oil on my hands.

I tend to have the oil changed sooner rather than later.

This has worked for me for many years with many fine vehicles running for hundreds of thousands of miles.

I know absolutely nothing about oil, other than a lot of people have a lot of opinions about it, which can make for some interesting reading.

revkev said:

I pay them to put the oil in because I don't like oil on my hands.

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I don't like it either. Latex gloves.

Some people just like to maintain their own bike(s) for the things they can do.

lkchris said:

You know, of course, that BMW North America's oil is Golden Spectro, a company that specializes in motorcycle oil. This oil is not sold in Europe by BMW.

It shows some effort on BMWNA's part to do the right thing.

Worldwide, BMW is closely associated with Castrol and even in car dealerships in the USA stocks German Castrol 10W-60 for M engines.

It rather surprises me there isn't a German Castrol solution for BMW motorcycles available, but it could be that Golden Spectro is cheaper, which is seemingly always important to guilt-ridden motorcyclists.

This is good data, but the best data has yet to emerge in this thread: that is, which BMW motorcycle models require off-normal motor oil. It's probably Airheads these days and some K-bikes with some sort of starter clutch requirement I don't understand. Otherwise, I doubt it's Oilheads/Hexheads and maybe not new K-bikes, either, especially if they have cat converters (which may be as expensive as valve trains). F-bike singles strangely are recommended dino over synthetic and I have no idea about F-bike twins.

Still waiting for good information.

But, as we all know, good information is scarce from BMW and lots of Internet legend rushes in to fill the void.

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Hah! I knew it! I've been using Castrol GTX in my machines since 1970 and have never had an oil related problem in any of them, got 175K on the airhead and 60K on the LT (my current machines).
but then I also use Castrol Air in my tires,
Castrol water and anti-freeze in the LT,
I live in a Castrol house
and eat only Castrol food stuffs (which I buy at the......



you guessed it, Castrol Market)....

I live in a Castrol house in a town built by Castrol
and I work for Castrol and my bosses last name is.......


are ready for this?.......


Carter.... (til he got fired for not changing his name)....

some people say I'm a little fanatical about Castrol,


can't understand why myself.....


RM

rocketman said:

I've been using Castrol GTX in my machines since 1970 and have never had an oil related problem in any of them . . . some people say I'm a little fanatical about Castrol

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So, do you know who makes the basestock oil (the part before the additives are put in) in your beloved Castrol GTX?

Read this.

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/reviews/sj_oil/index.html

Ralph Sims

Castrol Specs

Granted, this is not yer-basic-automobile-Castrol-oil, but it covers all the specs...



Castrol Act Evo XÔÇôTra ÔÇö
Features:

Premium 4ÔÇôstroke motorcycle engine oil
SAE 10WÔÇô30, 10WÔÇô40, 20WÔÇô40, and 20WÔÇô50 grades
Exceeds API SG, JASO MA2

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021706&contentId=7040549

BuddingGeezer said:

Read this.

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/reviews/sj_oil/index.html

Ralph Sims

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The underlying issue behind the SG/SH/SJ/SM discussion is apparently the ZDDP content of the oil. Not all SJ/SM oils have 800 ppm ZDDP contents. Although clearly it would be "safer" from a BMW "after-the-warranty" warranty standpoint to just always put BMW oil in our BMW motorcycles, on the other hand if we always followed BMW's guidance to the letter we would never lube the splines on BMW motorycles, would change the engine oil in BMW cars about every 15,000 miles or so, and would never change the manual transmission or differential gear oil in BMW cars at all.

BeemerMike said:

So, do you know who makes the basestock oil (the part before the additives are put in) in your beloved Castrol GTX?

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well first off I was mostly just kidding around (in case you couldn't tell) and as to who makes the base oil, should I care? (assuming its not made by baby killers or something) I'm quite sure that engine oil is like gas, the same product is sold under any number of brand names. Oh, and I don't always use Castrol since its not always available in some of the more rural locations I often find myself in; and its not my "beloved" either, that's reserved for my SO!

RM

BuddingGeezer said:

Read this.

http://www.gunsmoke.com/motorcycling/reviews/sj_oil/index.html

Ralph Sims

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Gee, my 30 year old bike isn't covered for warranty work cause I use Castrol? I'm devastated!

RM

I'm quite sure BMW would never use a product that would be harmful to the engines on any of their machines they sell. The thing is today so many products are really so well reifned in research and development that they may even be over engineered.

We buy these BMW motorcycles for many reasons I, for one have bought 2 of them so far because I don't want to have to work on them. I want to ride my machine just like it is any other form of transportation. I don't like to polish or wax very much, I just want to ride. I can appreciate the riders who treat their machines like a street rod all polished and pretty but, I still want to ride in all weather.

I got the oil/filter thing going before because of how I look at the whole subject. BMW has built a trmendous machine here that is capable of taking alot of abuse and day to day use. We live in a time where evrything has been invented to make our lives easier and most everything in this arena has been engineered very well. When it comes to any product be it peanut butter or even our beloved oil, some makes it and packages it. We all work for someone and many of us have or do work for a company that packages one item in many packages for multiple customers that will be sold at different prices although it's the same. Oil is no exception to that rule and IF we had someone who works for Spectro that stands next to the filling machine telling us that absolutely no other oil is packaged in the BMW bottles but BMW then they have something. But I'm still not convinced it requires such special attention as good as some oil products are today to use BMW only oil.

As I've said before I work in heavy industry and we have abused the $&it out of oil for years and it makes me have faith that the oils today are so good there isn't much reason to pay $11-12 a quart for it. I don't do it for my truck and car so why would I do it for my BMW machine?

rocketman said:

Gee, my 30 year old bike isn't covered for warranty work cause I use Castrol? I'm devastated!

RM

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Everyone wants to be a comedian. I was only giving actual info about the oil requirements to those who would like to know. I don't give a crap what kind of oil you run.

Ralph Sims