Radar detector for the thrifty?

Trying to explain to my wife why I need a radar detector has been an uphill battle. How do you argue with, "Why don't you just slow down?" "Because I can't" just doesn't go very far.

So I'm left getting one for myself. Happily, I can, slowly, accumulate a small pile of cash that I can spend on whatever I want (we each get an allowance - the answer to all budgetary whining). I can't afford a Valentine.

What's the next best choice? the Escort 8500 seems to take this prize (though some like it more than the valentine. At around $300 it's getting closer to my price range.

What's the next best choice cheaper than that one? Bel Vector 985?

At some point, someone will start in on the "it's a false economy", but if you don't have the money, you don't have the money. Right?

There is only ONE detector worth paying ANY money for, the V1.
The price difference is going to be about 10% of what the ticket you get because you've been lulled into a false sense of by cheap detector. The REAR facing radar (only found on a V1) is everybit as important as the front one. And the "Bogy count" is very important, too.

I say save your allowance and buy a V1 and until then, follow your wife's advice, just slow down. Otherwise you'll be kicking yourself in the butt for NOT buying a V1 as you write out that check to "the man" with money you coulda, shoulda spent on gear.

dlearl said:

There is only ONE detector worth paying ANY money for, the V1.
The price difference is going to be about 10% of what the ticket you get because you've been lulled into a false sense of by cheap detector. The REAR facing radar (only found on a V1) is everybit as important as the front one. And the "Bogy count" is very important, too.

I say save your allowance and buy a V1 and until then, follow your wife's advice, just slow down. Otherwise you'll be kicking yourself in the butt for NOT buying a V1 as you write out that check to "the man" with money you coulda, shoulda spent on gear.

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Nope.
Can't afford it.

I only have so much money to spend and there are other things I need to get as well - new boots, my aerostich is showing its age, a house, etc.

So I keep coming back to the Escort 8500. For $270 (lowest real price I've found so far), I get nearly as much (or more?) radar detector than the $450 Valentine ($400 detector + $50 audio jacks).

So now the question is: Any ideas on where I can get the best price for an Escort?

I don't buy things through e-bay. Unfortunately, I missed a cartoys promotion where the 8500 was $240.

Why don't you try to find a used Valentine somewhere?

Emoto said:

Why don't you try to find a used Valentine somewhere?

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First, I have a strong distaste for buying used electronics - at least pricey ones. Second, while I can't find much on-line, I have read several "impartial" reviews that suggest that, at best, the V1 is marginally better than the 8500. Third, I'm somewhere between thrifty and married and about to make some expensive changes in our lives. Funds are limited and the list of stuff that would enhance the ride is growing longer and longer. If the only thing I wanted to buy in the near future was a radar detector, I might get the V1.

Understood, but did you know that you can send in a V-1 for hardware and software upgrades? So, if you found a used one that was being sold for the right reasons ("we're down to one car now so don't need 2", divorce, death, etc.) you could pick up something good that could be refurbished (and upgraded as Valentine makes improvements) later.

Personally, I would wait until I could get the best. In some circumstances, even the V-1 gives you precious little time to check and adjust your speed, so trading ANY of that away is IMHO foolish.



If the difference in price is really that critical, maybe you should sell your BMW for a less expensive bike. After all, it would be "almost as good".

Emoto said:

Understood, but did you know that you can send in a V-1 for hardware and software upgrades? So, if you found a used one that was being sold for the right reasons ("we're down to one car now so don't need 2", divorce, death, etc.) you could pick up something good that could be refurbished (and upgraded as Valentine makes improvements) later.

Personally, I would wait until I could get the best. In some circumstances, even the V-1 gives you precious little time to check and adjust your speed, so trading ANY of that away is IMHO foolish.



If the difference in price is really that critical, maybe you should sell your BMW for a less expensive bike. After all, it would be "almost as good".

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Foolish?
Foolish might be spending more than you can afford to gain a marginal performance gain. I'll save my rant about perceptions of affordability and value for another time.

scott's a starving artist.

trust me on this one, Bob.

KBasa said:

scott's a starving artist.

trust me on this one, Bob.

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If you say so, Dave.

Scott, if you can, and I mean this with all possible deference, wait until you can get a V-1. Just save your $$$ until then. Really. It will be cheaper in the long run, because eventually you will want a V-1 and that other detector will become a paper weight.

I've been following this thread and I keep thinking that I'm missing something, or at least there are a couple of things I don't understand.

- I don't see what's so hard to understand about Scott's decision that he doesn't want to spend $400 on a radar detector. We all have finite funds, we all have to prioritize and make choices, and Scott (commendably, in my view) is putting a few things like home and family ahead of buying the most expensive version of a motorcycle toy. I mean, there's more to life than motorcycles, no? (I say as one who is as nuts about bikes as anyone, and my family along with me -- we own 8 motorcycles, everyone rides, my wife and I plan vacations around riding destinations. But there's still more to life than just motorcycles.)

- I'm not seeing the huge watershed difference between a Valentine and an Escort 8500 or even a Bel 985. A quick search of comparative tests seems to indicate that the differences between the them are minor, and more dealing with gizmo features than detection capability. Several of the comparison tests actually rated other units better than the V1. Now I'm sure fans of the V1 could make a case why it's better (and so could Escort and Bel fans, I imagine) but the point is that if there's a difference between them, it's certainly small, and in terms of real on-road risk management (which is what a detector is), the Escort or Bel might actually be just as effective in practical terms.

Now I know that in toys of the ego (motorcycles and moto toys certainly qualify), for many people a significant part of the pride of ownership is the inner knowledge that you have the best, and the easiest way to gain that feeling is to make sure you buy the most expensive unit available. No one deliberately thinks of it that way, of course, but it's a very easy jump from "I paid the most" to "therefore I got the best." Whatever turns you on, I guess, but in this case Scott has asked a very valid question -- how much better is the V1, really - and from what I see a fair answer is "not much, if anything at all."

Now if I'm missing something in the equation, I'd truly be interested to hear it because I've been thinking about a new detector myself. But I'd like to see some real evidence of substantially better real-life performance. I already know that the V1 has the highest status appeal, but that doesn't do much for me.

DesertRider said:

Now if I'm missing something in the equation, I'd truly be interested to hear it because I've been thinking about a new detector myself. But I'd like to see some real evidence of substantially better real-life performance. I already know that the V1 has the highest status appeal, but that doesn't do much for me.

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Well said.

knary said:

Well said.

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Ditto!

I have encountered a few people who think I am wasting my money on Joe Rocket. But I cannot justify a $1000 riding suit that gives an arguably marginal improvement in protection. H*!!, I only paid $2500 for my bike.

NOT trying to start a safety discussion, just making a point!

Jim

Scott-

I applaud you for setting limits and following them.

Having said that, way back when I had a radar detector... 10+ years .... I had a Passport and it worked great. Until the one time I was on open road and well nothing but instant on.

Anyway, the reason I picked Passport is that is was (possibly still is?) part of Cincinnati Microwave, one of the largest makers of radar guns. Plus all the reviews were really good.

At the moment their top of the line unit is about $300 direct from them.

Now the logic of purchasing a radar detector from a company that makes radar guns works for me, they will know what is in the radar gun. Of course there is the other side, since they make the radar detector, they know how to make a gun that will work against it.

Just my $0.02, YMMV.

BradfordBenn said:

Scott-

I applaud you for setting limits and following them.

Having said that, way back when I had a radar detector... 10+ years .... I had a Passport and it worked great. Until the one time I was on open road and well nothing but instant on.

Anyway, the reason I picked Passport is that is was (possibly still is?) part of Cincinnati Microwave, one of the largest makers of radar guns. Plus all the reviews were really good.

At the moment their top of the line unit is about $300 direct from them.

Now the logic of purchasing a radar detector from a company that makes radar guns works for me, they will know what is in the radar gun. Of course there is the other side, since they make the radar detector, they know how to make a gun that will work against it.

Just my $0.02, YMMV.

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At one time, Cincinnati Microwave was at the top of the heap. I owned one too. During that time when their units were consistently top rated, guess who was their chief engineer: Mike Valentine (who happens to be a motorcyclist, BTW).

He then split off (for reasons I do not know) and started his own company, whose sole product has consistently been rated above all others, in most cases by a wide margin. Every so often another detector comes along that tests better in one category, but never in all categories, and there is usually a drawback: most of the others are "hysterical" with many more false alarms than the V1.

DesertRider said:

I've been following this thread and I keep thinking that I'm missing something, or at least there are a couple of things I don't understand.

- I don't see what's so hard to understand about Scott's decision that he doesn't want to spend $400 on a radar detector. We all have finite funds, we all have to prioritize and make choices, and Scott (commendably, in my view) is putting a few things like home and family ahead of buying the most expensive version of a motorcycle toy. I mean, there's more to life than motorcycles, no? (I say as one who is as nuts about bikes as anyone, and my family along with me -- we own 8 motorcycles, everyone rides, my wife and I plan vacations around riding destinations. But there's still more to life than just motorcycles.)

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Don't forget that a detector is not motorcycle specific; I take my Valentine in whichever of my 3 vehicles that I happen to drive that day, so it shouldn't be classified as a motorcycle toy.

- I'm not seeing the huge watershed difference between a Valentine and an Escort 8500 or even a Bel 985.

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Well, when you're riding with someone sometime who is running a V1 and you're running a CM product like I was and they suddenly brake hard and you're wondering why until your detector goes off a few seconds later, those differences will have meaning. A few seconds is huge in terms of possibly avoiding a ticket.

A quick search of comparative tests seems to indicate that the differences between the them are minor, and more dealing with gizmo features than detection capability. Several of the comparison tests actually rated other units better than the V1.

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Maybe I have missed those tests. If you have links for them, could you share them?

Now I'm sure fans of the V1 could make a case why it's better (and so could Escort and Bel fans, I imagine) but the point is that if there's a difference between them, it's certainly small, and in terms of real on-road risk management (which is what a detector is), the Escort or Bel might actually be just as effective in practical terms.

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In practical terms, the information presented by the V1 is the most useful. The bogey counter and the directional arrows let you know how many and which direction they are. When your detector goes off, what's the first thing you do? Probably you slow down. The second is that you try to locate the threat, right? You look this way and that, and check your mirrors looking for the cop. The V1 tells you the direction and if ther are multiple threats, the arrow for the strongest signal will flash while the other stay unblinking. Saves a lot of head turning. After having lived with a V1 for a few years, I cannot imagine going back to a detector that did not point in the direction of the threat.

Now I know that in toys of the ego (motorcycles and moto toys certainly qualify), for many people a significant part of the pride of ownership is the inner knowledge that you have the best, and the easiest way to gain that feeling is to make sure you buy the most expensive unit available. No one deliberately thinks of it that way, of course, but it's a very easy jump from "I paid the most" to "therefore I got the best." Whatever turns you on, I guess, but in this case Scott has asked a very valid question -- how much better is the V1, really - and from what I see a fair answer is "not much, if anything at all."

Now if I'm missing something in the equation, I'd truly be interested to hear it because I've been thinking about a new detector myself. But I'd like to see some real evidence of substantially better real-life performance. I already know that the V1 has the highest status appeal, but that doesn't do much for me.

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I care nothing about status (ask kbasa, he knows me) and I am very tight-fisted with my money. I always seek something that is functionally as good or adequate rather than buy the current trendy item (no aerostiches for me, TYVM) so this thought does not apply to me. Perhaps Scott lives somewhere where they don;t crucify you for speeding, but here in the people's republic of MA, a speeding ticket can raise your insurance rates for SIX YEARS if I am not mistaken, so I take every advantage that I can.

I appreciate that we all need to prioritize our expenditures, and I am certainly in that boat as well. And, my opinion of the V1 is shared by a significant number of friends of mine who are chronic speeders with a capital S who graduated to the V1 from other brands. This is why I advise anyone who wants a detector but cannot afford the V1 to just hold off and wait until they can afford it rather than buy something else.

Of course, as the say: It's your nickel...

Guys, you are off the point of the post. This isn't a discussion on the virtues or warts of the V-1, it's about helping Knary find a radar detector that fits the amount of funds he is willing to spend. Debate is not the thread, helping him with the identification of an alternative is.

Now then, I would think for most people on this board there are only two choices, V-1 or 8500. Knary, if you are looking for alternatives, you may not find them here.

Good Luck.

Emoto said:

Well, when you're riding with someone sometime who is running a V1 and you're running a CM product like I was and they suddenly brake hard and you're wondering why until your detector goes off a few seconds later, those differences will have meaning. A few seconds is huge in terms of possibly avoiding a ticket.

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Anecdotes abound touting the wonders of every detector, but anecdotes are not objective data. Show me the data.

Maybe I have missed those tests. If you have links for them, could you share them?

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I just did a quick Google search, below are the top three that came up. Note that *none* of them rate the Valentine as significantly better than the other top units, in some cases not as high as some other units.

Motor Trend
Consumer Search
RadarTest.com (note there are four parts -- see page links at bottom)

In practical terms, the information presented by the V1 is the most useful. The bogey counter and the directional arrows let you know how many and which direction they are. When your detector goes off, what's the first thing you do? Probably you slow down. The second is that you try to locate the threat, right? You look this way and that, and check your mirrors looking for the cop. The V1 tells you the direction and if ther are multiple threats, the arrow for the strongest signal will flash while the other stay unblinking. Saves a lot of head turning. After having lived with a V1 for a few years, I cannot imagine going back to a detector that did not point in the direction of the threat.

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I'm not seeing how the arrow really helps -- if still within range, you need to keep the speed down, no matter the direction. But perhaps I'm missing something.

I appreciate that we all need to prioritize our expenditures, and I am certainly in that boat as well. And, my opinion of the V1 is shared by a significant number of friends of mine who are chronic speeders with a capital S who graduated to the V1 from other brands. This is why I advise anyone who wants a detector but cannot afford the V1 to just hold off and wait until they can afford it rather than buy something else.

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I understand your friends like it and obviously you do, but I'm not seeing the data that shows the Valentine is better. I have nothing against it, and the $400 is not big deal to me, but the data I've been able to find does not indicate the V1 to be better, and in some cases not as good. Show me hard data otherwise and I'll be a customer, but I do need to see more than conflicting personal anecdotes. I think you can understand why that is not a good guide.

Oy.

I've had radar detectors for 20 years. The V1 interface provides me with the most useful information and seems to false less and give me a pretty lengthy warning distance. See pictures of my summer ride for evidence of whether a radar detector will make you ticket-proof.

If you're not going to buy a V1 (and after talking with scott on the phone yesterday, that ain't in the cards), I'd perhaps take a look at the cordless BEL 945 with the ear piece.

YMMV, of course, but my perception (and a long history of Car and Driver reviews) has led me to believe that there's Valentine and then there's everything else. It's certainly not gadget lust on my part, it's functionality for me. Which is why I ride big German motorcycles that probably cost more than they should.

DesertRider said:

Anecdotes abound touting the wonders of every detector, but anecdotes are not objective data. Show me the data.

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http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=1993

I just did a quick Google search, below are the top three that came up. Note that *none* of them rate the Valentine as significantly better than the other top units, in some cases not as high as some other units.

Motor Trend
Consumer Search
RadarTest.com (note there are four parts -- see page links at bottom)

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Note that radartest has a beef with Valentine and is not objective. I haven't had time to look at the others yet.

I'm not seeing how the arrow really helps -- if still within range, you need to keep the speed down, no matter the direction. But perhaps I'm missing something.

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They, along with the bogey counter and signal strength meter, help you to build an accurate mental picture of the threats in your vicinity. If you see no value in knowing where the cops are then fine. I want to know where they are.

I understand your friends like it and obviously you do, but I'm not seeing the data that shows the Valentine is better. I have nothing against it, and the $400 is not big deal to me, but the data I've been able to find does not indicate the V1 to be better, and in some cases not as good. Show me hard data otherwise and I'll be a customer, but I do need to see more than conflicting personal anecdotes. I think you can understand why that is not a good guide.

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And... you're not going to "see the data" as this isn't a university class or a double blind controlled experiment, so forget it

Look, why don't you go out and buy one of each and use them side by side for a couple of weeks. You can return any mail order item within a month, I believe. Then let us know what you think.