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Wyoming yes, but Gillette???

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University and college campus events.

When I was on the board this was researched in detail. Most colleges have activities all summer plus the grounds staff is very reluctant to allow motorcycles on the grass. We used a university campus in Charleston with field camping and dorm use. A little known fact is that while we were promised the use of the atheltic fields for camping the week before the event the Athletic Director said absolutely no way.
...

Great post, Rob, and to the points raised. I would only add the following: many universities, especially land grant colleges, have schools of agriculture, etc. At Michigan State, they have an indoor area for horse shows, with camping outside. Maybe there are camping areas at some of the larger schools that don't involve using the precious athletic facilities. Just thinkin. Thanks again.
 
Finally the Voice of Reason has Spoken Up; Thank you Rob Nye for this Perfect Idea!!!

Just a grizzled rally rat checking in here! I have sat on the sidelines on this raging debate until now, but Rob N. has given voice to a common sense solution! There is no valid reason to have to reinvent the wheel every year.

It makes perfect common sense to give up on the policy of never going to the same site twice! All five of the Rally Sites that Rob mentioned were absolutely perfect venues for our BMWMOA International Rally. Here are five more blasts from the MOA Rally past that in my not-so-humble opinion were outstanding sites: Fredericksburg, Flagstaff, Durango, Laguna Seca and Missoula; let's return to these again.

Holy Cow, these were all proven commodities once; they will be once again great rally sites for MOA in the future!

Don Stanley
MOA #24810
Chandler, AZ
www.azbeemers.org/forum
 
What are the steps that are required of us to put this very sensible idea in place?
 
I agree. There are sites that have worked very well and we'd be foolish not to use them again.

I'm probably going to get crucified for saying this, but by applying some of the lessons we learned the first time around, Charleston might work better if we tried it again. The riding was pretty terrific, the city was reasonably welcoming, the weather was decent.

I'd go back to Redmond, Spokane, West Bend and Essex Junction in a heartbeat.

Now we need a site in the southwest, one in the Rockies (or other central region) and one in the southeast and we're set.

Help us find them, folks. We've put the rally site selection checklist right up there on the front page of the main site.
 
What are the steps that are required of us to put this very sensible idea in place?

Trust that your board of directors and also your rally site selection committee are reading these posts. Also, this idea has been discussed at board level in the past (as Rob noted)
 
There is no Board or MOA policy stating that we cannot revisit past rally sites. We've been to both Missoula, MT and Oshkosh, WI twice. We have also out grown many past sites including Flagstaff, Durango, Laguna Seca, Missoula, and DuQuoin. Some previous sites will be used again in the future.


Chuck Manley
Rally Site Search Team
 
Killington. Yes huge place. Could easily support a National if there was no camping, however per person cost would be at least $75 per day before any rally expense or food. If you start start using Rutland state fairground we are back into a fragmented rally.

In Vermont there is only one site which is the Champlain Valley Expo. We were just there two years ago and yes it was one of the best sites of the last 10 for camping, vendors *and* roads.

Only one site in all of Vermont??? Surely you jest.

I believe the Vermont State Fair facility in Rutland could easily host the MOA Rally. Has anyone spoken with them? I believe they have even hosted the MOA or RA previously.

There are hotels within walking distance, RV and camping facilities on site. Expo buildings, a grandstand, etc. And, there are mountains, scenic valleys and wonderful roads everywhere you look. Offsite there are more campgrounds and hotels as you get closer to Killington. Plus, I know Rutland would be the kind of town that would work hard with the MOA committe to make the Rally a success.

If a place like the Vermont State Fairgrounds in Rutland get rejected off-hand, I must have a completely wrong-headed idea about this whole topic.
 
Only one site in all of Vermont??? Surely you jest.

I believe the Vermont State Fair facility in Rutland could easily host the MOA Rally. Has anyone spoken with them? I believe they have even hosted the MOA or RA previously.

There are hotels within walking distance, RV and camping facilities on site. Expo buildings, a grandstand, etc. And, there are mountains, scenic valleys and wonderful roads everywhere you look. Offsite there are more campgrounds and hotels as you get closer to Killington. Plus, I know Rutland would be the kind of town that would work hard with the MOA committe to make the Rally a success.

If a place like the Vermont State Fairgrounds in Rutland get rejected off-hand, I must have a completely wrong-headed idea about this whole topic.

Just about any state fairgrounds exceeds the needs of MOA. West Bend was held at the Washington COUNTY Fairgrounds. It was a very nice facility. However, its not unique since many farm counties in the Midwest have equal or greater county facilities. South Dakota has a half dozen country fairgrounds; Rapid City, Aberdeen, Sioux Falls, Watertown, Mitchel along with a state fairgounds at Huron that meet the needs of MOA. However, other than Central State Fairgrounds at Rapid City, they all fail to provide the scenic venue with attractions that will encourage members to attend.

While passing through Kansas City today, I stopped at the BMW dealer (Engle Motors). While at Engles, I asked BMW owners that were there if they planned on attending Gillette? I gave no opinion of my own until after they answered the question. Every one of the BMW owners stated the same thing. No...because the location provides no scenic venue. One guy stated his son really wanted to go, but plans on taking him to the Colorado Rockies instead. These were all folks that were at a BMW dealership on a Wednesday afternoon. Most were retirees or had a flexible enough schedule to attend a rally.

I think BMWMOA has a real problem with Gillette. If we need to draw 5,000 folks to break even, you can't do that by only attracting our members that will attend no matter where you hold the rally. At West Bend, over 1800 BMWMOA members from Wisconsin attended the rally. However, only seven BMWMOA members at West Bend marked Wyoming as their home state. There will be a very small local draw. At West Bend, only 62% of the rally goers were BMWMOA members. Many of the attendees were locals riding other brands from Milwaukee or other large cities. I wouldn't predict a 38% draw of non-members at Gillette simply based on it's geographical locations and small population.

We all know that Gillette is a done deal for 2008. However, future site selection needs to ALWAY consider the 88% of our members that didn't attend West Bend. There are MANY Of US that have attended rallies in the past and enjoyed them, but decide each year based on the location. We have choices. Unlike the folks that always attend the rallies based on what occurs on the rally site, many of us like to browse the vendors, take a great scenic ride, and return for some entertainment. For us, we will wait until 2009 hoping for a more scenic venue.

Look folks...were all passionate about this because we are proud to be members and want BMWMOA to succeed. If we are looking at trying to attract 25% or 10,000 members, our rally site will have to consider the external draw before the internal requirement. This means sometimes you have to put the square peg in the round hole and compromise on internal requirements. The important items like shower and johns can be contracted anywhere.

The bottom line is the big draw is ALWAYS THE LOCATION. You would have very little complaining if the rally in 2008 was at Estes Park or the Grand Tetons.
 
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You would have very little complaining if the rally in 2008 was at Estes Park or the Grand Tetons.

If either of these locations had been picked, I'd be a happy camper -- even if I was there just last year!!!
 
Can you find a site there that would work for the MOA? Even if you tweak those requirements? :ear

I won't hold my breath.

I don't know which way to take that: as a personal affront, or an admission of the inflexibility of the selection team.

Jackson Hole doesn't work because...? What... too many people will show up?
 
I don't know which way to take that: as a personal affront, or an admission of the inflexibility of the selection team.

Jackson Hole doesn't work because...? What... too many people will show up?

I'm not on the selection team.

If you can find a place in Jackson Hole that we can use, please let us all know. Please tell those on the selection committee.
 
I don't know which way to take that: as a personal affront, or an admission of the inflexibility of the selection team.

Jackson Hole doesn't work because...? What... too many people will show up?


Well exactly where in Jackson Hole are you suggesting?

Come on man, step up and deliver some results. The people who have run rallies and served on the site selection team are familiar with Jackson, what did we miss?

Be specific. Become part of the solution instead of a back bench whiner.
 
Well exactly where in Jackson Hole are you suggesting?

Come on man, step up and deliver some results. The people who have run rallies and served on the site selection team are familiar with Jackson, what did we miss?

Be specific. Become part of the solution instead of a back bench whiner.

This approach has worked for you before -- calling people names and then demanding they "deliver some results"? I'm not your pledge, and the MOA is not your personal frat house -- beer tent notwithstanding?

Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Can I de-pledge?
 
If you're not going to help out, then you're just whining about what you don't like.

You've been to places you think would make a great rally venue. Look around, where will 5,000 people camp and 2,500 people stay in a motel? This is NOT GWRRA, the majority of people camp at the rally.

While Charleston may not have been the perfectly controlled experiment, it's clear that people don't want to camp far away from the center of activities. If you have an idea on how that can be reasonably accomplished, suggest it!

Even though you seem to feel that you're running into a great deal of negativity, what you're really running into is 35 years of experience at putting on a big camping rally. The selection criteria didn't materialize out of thin air, it's the result of experience at doing this.
 
Ok I am sorry I called you a back bench whiner.

Now back to the topic at hand, you have dismissed the work and expertise of the Rally Site Selection committee, past rally chairs and former officers of the MOA who have visited Jackson Hole.

So again what did everyone miss?
 
BMWMOA has not "outgrown" Flagstaff, if we can survive without the sacred beer tent!!

Dear Chuck,

Thanks for responding with the information that there is no Board or MOA policy stating that we canÔÇÖt revisit past rally sites. ThatÔÇÖs indeed great news and I was happy to hear it.

You did raise a red flag in my mind when you stated that we had outgrown Flagstaff as a Rally site, especially in light of the fact that Harley Owners Group alternates between Flagstaff and Tucson for the Arizona State Hog Rally and they have 15,000 riders there!

Everyone has given good advice so far, regarding putting your effort where your mouth is at, in terms of suggesting useful input for upcoming BMWMOA International Rallies.

IÔÇÖm Metro Mechanical, IncÔÇÖs Senior Project Manager for the Pipefitting Division here in Phoenix and IÔÇÖm salaried, which means that I get to work 80 hours a week for 40 hours pay; but it also means that I can set up my own schedule. As soon as I saw your post on my morning break at work, I figured what the heck, IÔÇÖm overdue calling on my Flagstaff clients anyways in selling our pipefitting, heating, air conditioning and fire protection services; so I drove up to Flag and spent the night. In addition to calling on my clients - I spent my afternoon, evening and this morning (staying at Inn of America) checking it out.

I called on Flagstaff Chamber of Commerce, Northern Arizona University, Coconino Parks and Recreation, Arizona State Parks Department and National Parks Department.

I picked up hard copy information from everybody that I visited, but it is easier to view information on the internet so I have printed up a website resources list at the end of this.

Flagstaff would work perfect with one huge caveat, no beer tents are allowed anywhere.

I find myself wondering if our possessing the beer tent as our sacred ox, that cannot be gored, is preventing us from returning to Flagstaff, Durango, Laguna Seca, Missoula, DuQuoin and other fine locations for a rally with really great scenic riding in the region.

If the beer tent is the Tail thatÔÇÖs wagging our BMWMOA Dog then youÔÇÖre right in your statement that weÔÇÖve ÔÇ£outgrownÔÇØ Flagstaff, and a whole lot of other possible rally venues.

When I mentioned the word beer tent to all of the parties above I just got the old fisheye!

Perhaps itÔÇÖs time that we sacrificed the Sacred Beer Tent Cow in order to select rally sites, like Flagstaff, with outstanding BMW motorcycling riding opportunities in the immediate area. IÔÇÖm as Irish as PaddyÔÇÖs pig, and dearly love my Guinness and Harp after a work day or in the saddle; but riding my Beemers takes precedence over quaffing suds!

Yours truly, Don

www.flagstaff.az.gov www.flagstaffchamber.com www.go-arizona.com/Flagstaff www.flagstaff.cc/Flagstaff_Arizona http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagstaff2%C_Arizona
 
I hope that sometime Calgary, just after the Stampede, will be able to host the rally. The Stampede can be the 'warm up act' for us. Then, just think of all the great riding slightly west of the city. Oh yes, it too is in America.:brow -Bob
 
If you're not going to help out, then you're just whining about what you don't like.

You've been to places you think would make a great rally venue. Look around, where will 5,000 people camp and 2,500 people stay in a motel? This is NOT GWRRA, the majority of people camp at the rally.

While Charleston may not have been the perfectly controlled experiment, it's clear that people don't want to camp far away from the center of activities. If you have an idea on how that can be reasonably accomplished, suggest it!

Even though you seem to feel that you're running into a great deal of negativity, what you're really running into is 35 years of experience at putting on a big camping rally. The selection criteria didn't materialize out of thin air, it's the result of experience at doing this.

How can anyone help, if any suggestion of change is met with a condescending lecture and restatement of the absolute infalibility of the site selection process?

Before you have site selection criteria, you have an objective or purpose for the rally.

What is the objective of the MOA Rally? Gather the faithful? Make money? Promote the MOA? Continue a tradition?

How is the success of an MOA Rally measured? Attendance? Revenue? Member Statisfaction?

Are the following hallmarks of an MOA Rally essential to its continuance? The sale of inexpensive beer to attendees by and for the benefit of the MOA; On-site camping sufficient for two-thirds of the attendees; Single unified rally campus, including permanant structures to house vendors and seminars, and a grandstand for those requiring such a thing.

To an MOA Rally neophyte, it would appear some of what frustrates many is not 35 years of experience; but rather a convergence of the physical limitations of the real world with the inflexible ideological dogma of the MOA Rally Selection Process.

I would be fascinated to learn what sites were under consideration for the '08 Rally and why each was rejected. Wouldn't that put things in perspective?
 
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