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Thread: Final Drive Viscosity?

  1. #16
    Registered User burnszilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjack View Post
    Ok I guess. I didn't have any flakes at all in three K12S bikes at about 11K the only change. I did have a 16th of an inch of metal dust on the magnets.
    I guess mine was metal dust then. Very fine.
    Stephen Burns - 2007 R1200GS
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  2. #17
    PATTENG
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    Gear Oil

    So I called my BMW dealer this morning to sort this out, they carry BMW gear oil 80W90 and 75W140 synthetic, and they recommend the Super Syn 75W140 for the tranny and FD in my 04RT. Will we ever figure out what the real deal is?
    Gap

  3. #18
    Kool Aid Dispenser! jimvonbaden's Avatar
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    I use 75W140 in summer, and 75W90 in winter, both full synthetic.

    I'm not sure it really maters if you change it regularly, and I also believe every 12K is a good rule of thumb.

    Jim
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  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Patteng View Post
    So I called my BMW dealer this morning to sort this out, they carry BMW gear oil 80W90 and 75W140 synthetic, and they recommend the Super Syn 75W140 for the tranny and FD in my 04RT. Will we ever figure out what the real deal is?
    Gap
    Yes. BMW issued a bulletin/instructions for changing the fluid in the 2007 models at 600 miles. Ask your dealer to see that bulletin and then ask the dealer to use the viscosity stated in that bulletin. Don't ask what they "prefer." Ask what BMW told them to use.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  5. #20
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    Here is the link on realoem.com that lists the BMW 75w-90 for what's worth.

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=33&fg=05

  6. #21
    Registered User GSWayne's Avatar
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    When they changed the recommended viscosity for the final drive did they also change the recommended viscosity of the transmission to 75W90 from 75W140?

  7. #22
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBWayne View Post
    When they changed the recommended viscosity for the final drive did they also change the recommended viscosity of the transmission to 75W90 from 75W140?
    There was no mention of the transmission oil. The official BMWAG spec is SAE 90 APL GL 5.
    BMWNA sells 80W90 dino, 75W90 synth and 75W140 synth under a new part number from the old 75W140. I don't know if it is a different product than the old part number.
    I read once that thinner oil is a better coolant. That could be a good thing to consider if it is true.
    R1200GS LC Rallye
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  8. #23
    Registered User soffiler's Avatar
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    Data point: when I had the leaky outer seal on my '05 GS final drive repaired under warranty, the dealer (Max BMW in NH - whom I consider a very reputable, by-the-book sort of dealer) put in 75W-140. That was on Sept 6, 2007.
    Steve O. - MOA #122171
    '05 R12GS, '76 CB200 (wife's)
    '91 K100RS, '87 Honda CBR1000 Hurricane, '84 Yamaha FJ1100, '85 Honda VF500F, '76 Yamaha RD400, '82 Honda XL500... and more

  9. #24
    Registered User GSWayne's Avatar
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    The reason I was asking about 75W140 is because that is what Irv Seaver, the BMW dealer in Orange County sold me for the final drive and transmission a few months ago. So now I am wondering whether I should use it for the transmission, the FD or both or neither.

  10. #25
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBWayne View Post
    The reason I was asking about 75W140 is because that is what Irv Seaver, the BMW dealer in Orange County sold me for the final drive and transmission a few months ago. So now I am wondering whether I should use it for the transmission, the FD or both or neither.
    I guess I would use what BMW says for the new FD. As far as the trans, I don't think I ever heard or experienced any issues with too heavy an oil issue...or many trans issues in general. There is a circulatory system in a BMW trans...at least there used to be, where the oil is pumped thru the shafts by the gears running. That would make me want to run the thinner, but adequate weight at least in the winter time. But I never had any issues with the K100RSes running 75W140 for at least 60K each or more.
    R1200GS LC Rallye
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  11. #26
    gulfcoastbeemer
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    I am totally confused!!! HELP!!!

    Oddly, my BMW dealer doesn't stock BMW 75W90 gear oil or Castrol SAF-XO. They do stock BMW 75W140 synthetic gear oil.

    I asked my BMW parts guy what they use in their service department for final drive oil in a R1200RT, and he answered, "Regular gear oil -- something in a 55-gallon drum".

    If the BMW REP-ROM specifies Castrol SAF-XO, yet BMW NA markets both BMW 75W90 Super Synthetic gear oil and BMW 75W140 Super Synthetic gear oil -- what are we supposed to use?

    And, what is so wrong with using BMW 75W140 super synthetic gear oil in the final drive -- why does it even exist?

    If BMW 75W140 synthetic gear oil should NOT be used in the final drive, where should it be used? Apparently not the gear box, as the BMW REP-ROM indicates, Brand name hypoid-gear lubricant SAE 90 API GL 5.

    What the heck is BMW 75W140 synthetic gear oil for, if not the final drive?

    The back-label of "Synthetic BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W140 Super Synthetic" reads exactly as follows:

    Super Synthetic Engine Oil / SAE 75W140
    ΤΗσ Recommended for all BMW motorcycles after 1970
    ΤΗσ Field Tested by BMW NA.
    ΤΗσ High-performance synthetic provides high load-carrying characteristics, minimum foaming, and exceptional resistance to thermal degradation and oil consumption.
    ΤΗσ Exclusive chemistry reduces internal friction and enhances power output under extreme conditions
    BMW SAE 75W140
    Synthetic Gear Oil

    Sold by BMW of North America, LLC, Woodriff Lake, NJ 07675. Formulated, Blended and packaged exclusively for BMW of North America by Spectro Oils of America.


    Is BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W140 Super Synthetic an acceptable alternative gear oil to BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W90 Super Synthetic in certain applications?

  12. #27
    Registered User soffiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulfcoastbeemer View Post
    ...I asked my BMW parts guy what they use in their service department for final drive oil in a R1200RT, and he answered, "Regular gear oil -- something in a 55-gallon drum".
    BMW recommends synthetic oil in the FD. What the parts guy told you is incorrect. Either he is mistaken (he's a parts guy commenting on practices in the service dep't) or, if he's right, the dealership is not following BMW recommendations. You might try asking the service department...


    ... The back-label of "Synthetic BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W140 Super Synthetic" reads exactly as follows:

    Super Synthetic Engine Oil / SAE 75W140
    ΤΗσ Recommended for all BMW motorcycles after 1970
    ΤΗσ Field Tested by BMW NA.
    ΤΗσ High-performance synthetic provides high load-carrying characteristics, minimum foaming, and exceptional resistance to thermal degradation and oil consumption.
    ΤΗσ Exclusive chemistry reduces internal friction and enhances power output under extreme conditions
    BMW SAE 75W140
    Synthetic Gear Oil
    Does it REALLY say "engine" ???

    ... Is BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W140 Super Synthetic an acceptable alternative gear oil to BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W90 Super Synthetic in certain applications?
    What part of "recommended for all BMW motorcycles after 1970" isn't clear enough?

    As I commented in an earlier post, I have BMW 75W140 in my FD right now. It was put there by Max BMW, a very reputable dealer, about a month ago.

    Multi-viscosity gear oil designations work like motor oil - the first number is the viscosity when cold, so 75W140 has the same viscosity as a straight 75 gear oil when cold. That is relatively thin, and I suspect it helps with flow at cold temperatures. The other number is the viscosity when hot, so 75W140 has the same viscosity when hot as a straight 140 oil when hot. That's pretty thick, and here, I suspect it helps in the following manner: oil is distributed around the FD by sticking to the gear teeth and being carried around. Too thin, and it gets flung off, and may not reach the places it needs to reach.
    Steve O. - MOA #122171
    '05 R12GS, '76 CB200 (wife's)
    '91 K100RS, '87 Honda CBR1000 Hurricane, '84 Yamaha FJ1100, '85 Honda VF500F, '76 Yamaha RD400, '82 Honda XL500... and more

  13. #28
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulfcoastbeemer View Post
    I am totally confused!!! HELP!!!

    Oddly, my BMW dealer doesn't stock BMW 75W90 gear oil or Castrol SAF-XO. They do stock BMW 75W140 synthetic gear oil.

    I asked my BMW parts guy what they use in their service department for final drive oil in a R1200RT, and he answered, "Regular gear oil -- something in a 55-gallon drum".

    If the BMW REP-ROM specifies Castrol SAF-XO, yet BMW NA markets both BMW 75W90 Super Synthetic gear oil and BMW 75W140 Super Synthetic gear oil -- what are we supposed to use?

    And, what is so wrong with using BMW 75W140 super synthetic gear oil in the final drive -- why does it even exist?

    If BMW 75W140 synthetic gear oil should NOT be used in the final drive, where should it be used? Apparently not the gear box, as the BMW REP-ROM indicates, Brand name hypoid-gear lubricant SAE 90 API GL 5.

    What the heck is BMW 75W140 synthetic gear oil for, if not the final drive?

    The back-label of "Synthetic BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W140 Super Synthetic" reads exactly as follows:

    Super Synthetic Engine Oil / SAE 75W140
    ΤΗσ Recommended for all BMW motorcycles after 1970
    ΤΗσ Field Tested by BMW NA.
    ΤΗσ High-performance synthetic provides high load-carrying characteristics, minimum foaming, and exceptional resistance to thermal degradation and oil consumption.
    ΤΗσ Exclusive chemistry reduces internal friction and enhances power output under extreme conditions
    BMW SAE 75W140
    Synthetic Gear Oil

    Sold by BMW of North America, LLC, Woodriff Lake, NJ 07675. Formulated, Blended and packaged exclusively for BMW of North America by Spectro Oils of America.


    Is BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W140 Super Synthetic an acceptable alternative gear oil to BMW Gear Oil SAE 75W90 Super Synthetic in certain applications?
    I would use the 75W90 synth that the BMW bulletin says to use in the new final drives...the K2x and K4x bikes. As far as the trans goes and the fd in the older bikes, AND maybe even the new fd in those new bikes, I guess you could use the 140, but it is probably not necessary.
    R1200GS LC Rallye
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by cjack View Post
    I would use the 75W90 synth that the BMW bulletin says to use in the new final drives...the K2x and K4x bikes. As far as the trans goes and the fd in the older bikes, AND maybe even the new fd in those new bikes, I guess you could use the 140, but it is probably not necessary.
    I would NOT use 75w140 in any BMW final drive. BMW specs allow it in transmissions but 90 wt or 80w90 wt or 75w90 wt is spec'd for final drives in every maintenance manual I have found.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  15. #30
    gulfcoastbeemer
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    Quote Originally Posted by soffiler View Post
    Does it REALLY say "engine" ???



    What part of "recommended for all BMW motorcycles after 1970" isn't clear enough?

    As I commented in an earlier post, I have BMW 75W140 in my FD right now. It was put there by Max BMW, a very reputable dealer, about a month ago.
    Thanks for the reply.

    YES, it does say engine in that one place on the back-side label; however, it is clearly marked gear oil everywhere else.

    I can take a picture of the front and back of the BMW product if there is any serious doubt about that. I should have made a comment about the word engine in the original post. All, I can figure is it's a result of pretty careless proof-reading on the part of BMW NA. Figures.

    It appears we have two groups of people -- equally confident, and equally divided as to whether it's BMW 75W90 or 75W140 Super Synthetic Gear Oil that should be used in the final drive.

    As far as the "manual" is concerned, I now have about as much confidence in it as the back-side label of the BMW Gear Oil. The $125 BMW REP-ROM specifies Castrol SAF-XO, which is a 75W90 gear oil that does not have fiction modifiers. Good luck finding it anywhere in the United States. And, who knows if that is what is currently recommended in light of much publicized final drive issues.

    When I purchased my wife's '05 R1200RT the final drive was sealed for life -- maintenance free. When I purchased my '07 R1200RT the final drive was sealed for life -- maintenance free; but BMW NA issued a tech bulletin shortly after I bought it, and recommended a 600 mile drain and refill. Who knows what the real deal is presently.

    I have spoken the BMW NA on other issues and have come the conclusion they are just about worthless. Each time I have asked them a question, they have dodged the issue and have asked me to consult with my dealer. Well, my dealer is a multi-brand dealer with a 55-gallon drum of generic gear oil.

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