View Poll Results: So, was the Cycle World article fair to the F800ST?

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  • Yes, it was

    7 53.85%
  • No, it favored the Honda

    3 23.08%
  • No opinon as I haven't read the article

    3 23.08%
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Thread: Cycle World Article

  1. #16
    Rally Rat kreinke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhway View Post
    The only thing that really pushed the Honda ahead was peak power and if you reread the article with that in mind, the F800ST comes out much better as a light weight, do everything, all arounder. How about some more leg room in there, ok BMW?

    Now, pass the Kool Aid please.
    I'll take my Kool Aid with a shot of Captain Morgan please.

    The last sentence of the article says it all. It didn't leave any room for misinterpretation. Said something like "If you need a good sport tourer you only need to stop at your local Honda dealer."

    Considering the F800 either tied to spanked the Interceptor and had an equal number of nits to pic, I call that bias. Especially considering the engine, the most important part of the motorcycle. They still don't like the V-tec but loved the F800's mill.

  2. #17
    Registered User 85138's Avatar
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    I'll read it again

    I didn't find anything untoward about the article. If anything disappointed in the wet weight. Was hoping it'd come in around 460 w/ fluids but seems to be ~ 500lbs fully loaded. (They listed 485 dry ... presumably everything but gas)

    When it comes to wt & power specs I put more credence in magazines (especially MCNews) than manufactures, especially with the silly dry wt specs. BMW and Ducati tend to be not as outrageous (relatively) with the disparity btwn dry and wet.

  3. #18
    Rally Rat kreinke's Avatar
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    I reread the article and found one more thing conspicuously missing from the comparo.

    power whine mode start

    There was no mention of the cost of ownership of these bikes as far as maintenance. Usually magazines make at least a passing mention of maintenance costs. (I.E. can you do your own oil changes, etc.) They talk about how durable the valve train is, what are the service intervals, etc.

    INMO the little Beemer has the VFR beat hands down (which is probably why they omitted it) in maintenance.

    The VFr has a chain drive whereas the Beemer has a belt (some F650CS owners have gotten over 100,000 miles out of theirs).

    The Beemer has finger-follower valves whereas the VFR has the complicated V-tec shim-under-bucket valves (twice as many of them too).....not to mention the VFR has more plastic and a good mechanic will probably spend more than and hour of labor just getting the damned thing stripped down to do a service.

    Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but the fact that the mentioned 1/4 mile times on bike that'll never be raced, but omitted maintenance costs where a good many sport-touring folks like to do their own wrenching stinks.
    power whine over.

  4. #19
    scqtt
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    Kreinke, let me get this straight, you're saying the BMW will be cheaper to maintain than the Honda in the long run? You really feel that way? You think they maybe posted 1/4 times and stayed away from ownership costs as a way of keeping the Honda on top?


    I am with M1ka on this one.


    SJBMW, my reading comprehension is fine. I understand the difference bewteen a new design and a 25 year old model

    Here is where I have a problem.

    "The meat is in the details" (your words)

    Cycle Word uses that statment, (new/25year) but ties no favoritism to it.

    You use that stament as a plus to the F800 side of the sheet. By doing so you are implying that the new design is better than the 25 year old model. CW did not even hint at that. I think you took their words out of context and applied them as you see fit.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not a Honda fan. I have owned a few, but I do not have one at this time. FWIF I have 5 BMWs in the garage right now. The problem I have with Honda is I think they have been engineering the soul out of their products for many many years. Yes, they are good, almost too good, but that is where the problem lies. They are made for mass consumpution, made to work for everyone.

  5. #20
    Rally Rat kreinke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCQTT View Post
    Kreinke, let me get this straight, you're saying the BMW will be cheaper to maintain than the Honda in the long run? You really feel that way? You think they maybe posted 1/4 times and stayed away from ownership costs as a way of keeping the Honda on top?
    .
    I wasn't speaking Chinese was I?

    Do you really feel that that Wurlitzer, Rube Goldberg contraption of an engine is easier to maintain than a simple in-line twin?

    Are you trying to tell me that a 16 valve motorcycle with a funky hydraulic valve actuation on 2 valves per cylinder, plus chain as opposed to belt drive, plus more plastic to remove, plus fewer miles between valve adjustments, equals a cheaper to maintain motorcycle? I didn't think so. I bet the F800 is going to be LOTS cheaper in the maintenance department in the long run.

    As far as quater-mile times....Yeah, I'll go right out and get a VFR because I'm .5 second closer to beating that 'Busa I've seen around town.

  6. #21
    Brett
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    VFR Vs 800

    I have to say I think Cycle world was very fair for once. The VFR is a legend and I own one and know this to be true. Even getting close to a recomendation from CW compared to the VFR means Bmw made a great attempt on the first try with this bike. Also people in the know like the BMW rider will buy the 800 over the VRF because it is a sport tourer with emphasis on tourer not a sport tourer with a sport bike feel. I have to believe they were right on in there evaluation of both bikes. I will however still ride both my BMW's far more than my VFR for some reason that I'll never know. Over tha past three years BMW GS 45,000.00 miles, R60/5 5,000.00 miles VFR 2,000.00 miles, So in the end when you head into the garage its what you pick to ride that says it all.

    Brett
    Altoona Pa.

  7. #22
    looking for a coal mine knary's Avatar
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    Between a chain drive vtech Honda and a belt drive rotax, I'd bet the rotax would be the cheaper to run (nevermind the better fuel mileage).

  8. #23
    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    VFR v F 800

    The major disadvantage of the ST as a sport tourer, in my opinion, is it's luggage capacity, which is 10 litres, or 30%, less than the Honda. The VFR uses about 25% more fuel, but its fuel capacity is 1.7 gallons more, so its range is a bit higher than the ST's (217 miles to 190 miles).

    Rinty
    Last edited by Rinty; 08-05-2007 at 03:34 PM. Reason: correct measure

  9. #24
    Lifetime Member Ridealot's Avatar
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    I read the article and thought the F800 was fairly represented.

    I'm glad they mentioned the short distance from the peg to seat. As someone who has had knee surgery it is very uncomfortable to have my knees bent at to sharp of an angle. If I test ride an F800 I will be sure to check that.

    The only thing in the article that seemed completely wrong to me was in the DOWNS for the F800. After having an F650CS for over 5 years I can absolutley tell you that the gas cap under the seat is a great big huge UP. What can be more simple than pulling up to the pump, putting the bike on the side stand, leave the tank bag alone and fill the bike up. Since the opening is low it is very easy to see the level of the gas and not over fill it. And if you did over fill it the gas is not going to run all over the plastic where the tank usually is. I give Cycle World a Homer Simpson D'oh on that call.

    The only other thing they should have made more mention of was the far superiority of the belt final drive. On my F650CS I now have 30,000 miles. I have never adjusted the belt, I have never lubed it, and I have never spent one single second washing chain lube off of the rear wheel.
    Tom
    Salem Or.
    '93 K1100LT w/Bushtec
    '09 F650GS '15 Ducati Multistrada

  10. #25
    100,000+ miler 32232's Avatar
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    Rinty,
    Maybe you meant 10 litres? 10 cu/ft is about what my station wagon holds.

    The simple way to solve the luggage problem is what a LOT of F800 owners are doing. In effect, get the VFR luggage. The VFR uses Givi V35 bags with a special Honda outer cover. I've got the V35's on my F800 and they are far superior to the BMW bags IMHO, and a lot cheaper, as well. That eliminates one of the VFR advantages according to CW.

    As far as range, I'm getting about 350km (217 mi.) before the fuel warning light comes on, at which point the computer is telling me I've got 90 km (56 mi.) to go. No advantage for the Honda there.
    Last edited by 32232; 08-05-2007 at 03:07 PM. Reason: inaccuracy
    Dave

    '06 Triumph Scrambler (Trans-Labrador veteran)

  11. #26
    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    ST v VFR

    Maybe you meant 10 litres? 32232
    Dave:

    Whoops! I lapsed out of metric think when I posted that.

    I've corrected the post, and thanks for pointing that out.

    My fuel range figures were calculated from the gas mileages published in the article. But both bikes were probably flogged for the write up, so we may assume CW's numbers are on the low side. But 55 miles per Imperial gallon for the ST is still a good number, in my opinion. What are you getting?

    Rinty
    Last edited by Rinty; 08-05-2007 at 04:04 PM. Reason: add something

  12. #27
    100,000+ miler 32232's Avatar
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    Mileage on a 1500 km trip on combined limited access highways & two lane roads, 2-up, loaded saddlebags, top case & tank bag was 7.2 l/100km. (67MPG Imperial).

    My usual commute to work and local two lane riding around home is bringing about 3.9 l/100km (72MPG) I'm no slowpoke, as my riding buddies will attest, but like a smooth riding style. Most of this riding is shifting at about 5k with cruising about 100km/h. Mileage is nothing short of phenomenal.
    Dave

    '06 Triumph Scrambler (Trans-Labrador veteran)

  13. #28
    Slowpoke & Proud of It! BRADFORDBENN's Avatar
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    Cynical Comment - Which one advertises in Cycle World?





    Did I mention I really like my 1995 VFR?
    -=Brad

    It isn't what you ride, it is if you ride

  14. #29
    2 Wheeled Troubador oldhway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradfordBenn View Post
    Cynical Comment - Which one advertises in Cycle World?





    Did I mention I really like my 1995 VFR?

    Uh.... Both. Hmmm the plot thickens........
    Steve Marquardt

  15. #30
    looking for a coal mine knary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridealot View Post
    I read the article and thought the F800 was fairly represented.

    I'm glad they mentioned the short distance from the peg to seat. As someone who has had knee surgery it is very uncomfortable to have my knees bent at to sharp of an angle. If I test ride an F800 I will be sure to check that.

    The only thing in the article that seemed completely wrong to me was in the DOWNS for the F800. After having an F650CS for over 5 years I can absolutley tell you that the gas cap under the seat is a great big huge UP. What can be more simple than pulling up to the pump, putting the bike on the side stand, leave the tank bag alone and fill the bike up. Since the opening is low it is very easy to see the level of the gas and not over fill it. And if you did over fill it the gas is not going to run all over the plastic where the tank usually is. I give Cycle World a Homer Simpson D'oh on that call.

    The only other thing they should have made more mention of was the far superiority of the belt final drive. On my F650CS I now have 30,000 miles. I have never adjusted the belt, I have never lubed it, and I have never spent one single second washing chain lube off of the rear wheel.
    I almost never get off the bike when filling up. Doing so seems to add at least 10 minutes to a stop - you're off so why not get a milky way, pee, drink something, get stuck chatting with some local, etc. Having to do so would just plain suck, IMHO.

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