View Poll Results: So, was the Cycle World article fair to the F800ST?

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  • Yes, it was

    7 53.85%
  • No, it favored the Honda

    3 23.08%
  • No opinon as I haven't read the article

    3 23.08%
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Thread: Cycle World Article

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  1. #1
    Registered User coyotebmw's Avatar
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    Cycle World Article

    Anyone read the Cycle World article "BMW F800ST vs. Honda Interceptor" in this months Cycle World? I read it and found it disturbing and bias for Honda. How does everyone else read it?http://www.cycleworld.com/article.as...article_id=407

    Somethings I found questionable were their power and torque rateings (I think they said they reported torque as 52 Ft/lb @8000 RPM, BMW reports it as 63 lb/ft @ 5800 rpm, and power as 85 bhp @ 8000 rpm). Also, they dinged the F800ST because it is a light bike compared to the Honda! I really think they were unfair to the F800ST!
    CoyoteBMW
    53 years of BMW's - 1960 R26 and 2007 F800ST!

  2. #2
    looking for a coal mine knary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coyotebmw View Post
    Anyone read the Cycle World article "BMW F800ST vs. Honda Interceptor" in this months Cycle World? I read it and found it disturbing and bias for Honda. How does everyone else read it?http://www.cycleworld.com/article.as...article_id=407

    Somethings I found questionable were their power and torque rateings (I think they said they reported torque as 52 Ft/lb @8000 RPM, BMW reports it as 63 lb/ft @ 5800 rpm, and power as 85 bhp @ 8000 rpm). Also, they dinged the F800ST because it is a light bike compared to the Honda! I really think they were unfair to the F800ST!
    I haven't read the article, but CW probably reported the rear wheel power/torque while BMW gives the crank power/torque. Yes?

  3. #3
    Rally Rat kreinke's Avatar
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    I got that impression too. They state the F800 is nearly 100 lbs lighter than the Interceptor. Then they complain because there's too much ground clearance. (WTF?!? is it possible to have too much leaning ability?) And get this....they thought the saddlebags on the Beemer were too big. That's kind of like a woman's mammary glands being too big or a Hemi being too powerful....it's just not possible.

    It's pretty obvious that Cycle World is pandering to their bigger advertiser. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. CW lost its credibility when they started featuring the chopper crap on the covers.

    Interestingly enough, Roadracing World had a really nice write-up of the F800's in last month's issue and praised it for being a better bike overall that the Interceptor....even saying the F800S would make a good track day bike.

  4. #4
    Registered User coyotebmw's Avatar
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    Apples and Oranges

    As I read the article I realized that they were trying to make an Apples and Oranges comparison between the bikes, just to make the Honda look better! When you realize that they were comparing 20th century vs 21st century technology! They probably had to make the old tech look good because that is were their bread and butter comes from.
    CoyoteBMW
    53 years of BMW's - 1960 R26 and 2007 F800ST!

  5. #5
    2 Wheeled Troubador oldhway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kreinke View Post
    I got that impression too. They state the F800 is nearly 100 lbs lighter than the Interceptor. Then they complain because there's too much ground clearance. (WTF?!? is it possible to have too much leaning ability?) And get this....they thought the saddlebags on the Beemer were too big. That's kind of like a woman's mammary glands being too big or a Hemi being too powerful....it's just not possible.

    It's pretty obvious that Cycle World is pandering to their bigger advertiser. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. CW lost its credibility when they started featuring the chopper crap on the covers.

    Interestingly enough, Roadracing World had a really nice write-up of the F800's in last month's issue and praised it for being a better bike overall that the Interceptor....even saying the F800S would make a good track day bike.
    I was dissapointed in the article as well however to put things in a little more perspective; They complained that the BMW bags were to wide yet had a smaller capacity than the Honda's, even expanded all the way. They also did not "complain" about the ground clearance, they actually praised it but were surprised it was so abundant.

    A second note, calling the VFR800 a 25 year old design, as another poster did, because it's based on the original VF750S of 1983 is like calling the R1200RT a 30 year old design because it's based on the original R100RT or calling an "07 Corvette a 50 year old design because it's based ib the original from the 50's. Kind of a stretch there.

    Having said all that, I don't think the bikes are actually viaing for the same marketshare so the comparison probably needs to be read with that in mind. The only thing that really pushed the Honda ahead was peak power and if you reread the article with that in mind, the F800ST comes out much better as a light weight, do everything, all arounder. How about some more leg room in there, ok BMW?

    Now, pass the Kool Aid please.
    Steve Marquardt

  6. #6
    some people can read, but comprehension eludes them.

    25 year old MODEL.

    vs. a NEW Designed bike.
    Sig? What's a Sig?

  7. #7
    2 Wheeled Troubador oldhway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjbmw View Post
    some people can read, but comprehension eludes them.

    25 year old MODEL.

    vs. a NEW Designed bike.

    Sorry, some how I felt that the 25 year old part was meant to hold some significance but now that you tell me it is irrelevant, your bringing it up makes perfect sense to me. I appreciate the correction and feel I understand your comment much better now.

    Steve Marquardt

  8. #8
    Rally Rat kreinke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhway View Post
    The only thing that really pushed the Honda ahead was peak power and if you reread the article with that in mind, the F800ST comes out much better as a light weight, do everything, all arounder. How about some more leg room in there, ok BMW?

    Now, pass the Kool Aid please.
    I'll take my Kool Aid with a shot of Captain Morgan please.

    The last sentence of the article says it all. It didn't leave any room for misinterpretation. Said something like "If you need a good sport tourer you only need to stop at your local Honda dealer."

    Considering the F800 either tied to spanked the Interceptor and had an equal number of nits to pic, I call that bias. Especially considering the engine, the most important part of the motorcycle. They still don't like the V-tec but loved the F800's mill.

  9. #9
    Registered User 85138's Avatar
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    I'll read it again

    I didn't find anything untoward about the article. If anything disappointed in the wet weight. Was hoping it'd come in around 460 w/ fluids but seems to be ~ 500lbs fully loaded. (They listed 485 dry ... presumably everything but gas)

    When it comes to wt & power specs I put more credence in magazines (especially MCNews) than manufactures, especially with the silly dry wt specs. BMW and Ducati tend to be not as outrageous (relatively) with the disparity btwn dry and wet.

  10. #10
    Registered User coyotebmw's Avatar
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    What BMW Motorrad Says

    I just got off the phone with BMW Motorrad of North America after I sent them a e-mail question on the CycleWorld article. The difference is that BMW certifies the Power and Torque on a dyno at the shaft. I mentioned the difference between the advertised specs and the CycleWorld "findings". CycleWorld was measuring the power and torque at the rear wheel and not the crank, as BMW, and most manufacturers do. Also, the difference between the spec for torque (63 Ft/Lbs at 5,800 rpm vs CycleWorlds 53 at 8000 rpm) is bogus because that is where the F800ST's torque is starting to fall off.
    CoyoteBMW
    53 years of BMW's - 1960 R26 and 2007 F800ST!

  11. #11
    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    cycle world

    I read the article, quickly, a few days ago, and thought it was pretty balanced. I will have another look at it, in light of your comments, and because I am a big fan of the new 800.

    I don't find CW to be anti BMW overall.

    Rinty
    Last edited by Rinty; 08-04-2007 at 03:38 AM. Reason: add something

  12. #12
    larrydk
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    f800 and CW

    Just an opinion, CW has opinions based on thier editorial staff, I don't think it's intentionally biased

  13. #13
    A discerning reader in the market for either of these bikes would find that the details favor the BMW, despite the homage to the squids.

    They try to sell quarter mile times as a factor, which is what squids read, but is not really relevant for these bikes.

    The meat is in the details.

    A 25 year old model vs. a new design.
    Unscrapable pegs.
    Adjustable width bags.
    Smoother engine.
    equal price tags. (the biggest draw for BMW right there!)
    37 mpg vs. 46 mpg
    Sig? What's a Sig?

  14. #14
    scqtt
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    You guys crack me up. Once again the MOA guys have drank the koolaid and think everyone is out to get them.

    Those bikes have little in common except the displacement. They both are what they are and they are very hard to compare.

    SJBMW do you really think the Honda is a 25 year old design?

    FWIW I have ridden a few times with some of the CW guys, they like BMWs. I know a few of them have BMWs in their personal garage.

  15. #15
    Focused kbasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjbmw View Post
    A discerning reader in the market for either of these bikes would find that the details favor the BMW, despite the homage to the squids.

    They try to sell quarter mile times as a factor, which is what squids read, but is not really relevant for these bikes.

    The meat is in the details.

    A 25 year old model vs. a new design.
    Unscrapable pegs.
    Adjustable width bags.
    Smoother engine.
    equal price tags. (the biggest draw for BMW right there!)
    37 mpg vs. 46 mpg
    The VFR is hardly a 25 year old model. It's a model that's been offered for 25 years, which is pretty longstanding. However, the current version arrived in 2002, I believe.
    Dave Swider
    Marin County, CA

    Some bikes. Some with motors, some without.

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