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Cycle World Article

So, was the Cycle World article fair to the F800ST?

  • Yes, it was

    Votes: 6 54.5%

  • No, it favored the Honda

    Votes: 3 27.3%

  • No opinon as I haven't read the article

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .
coyotebmw

coyotebmw

New member
Anyone read the Cycle World article "BMW F800ST vs. Honda Interceptor" in this months Cycle World? I read it and found it disturbing and bias for Honda. How does everyone else read it?http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=13&article_id=407

Somethings I found questionable were their power and torque rateings (I think they said they reported torque as 52 Ft/lb @8000 RPM, BMW reports it as 63 lb/ft @ 5800 rpm, and power as 85 bhp @ 8000 rpm). Also, they dinged the F800ST because it is a light bike compared to the Honda! I really think they were unfair to the F800ST!:nono
 
coyotebmw said:
Anyone read the Cycle World article "BMW F800ST vs. Honda Interceptor" in this months Cycle World? I read it and found it disturbing and bias for Honda. How does everyone else read it?http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=13&article_id=407

Somethings I found questionable were their power and torque rateings (I think they said they reported torque as 52 Ft/lb @8000 RPM, BMW reports it as 63 lb/ft @ 5800 rpm, and power as 85 bhp @ 8000 rpm). Also, they dinged the F800ST because it is a light bike compared to the Honda! I really think they were unfair to the F800ST!:nono
Click to expand...

I haven't read the article, but CW probably reported the rear wheel power/torque while BMW gives the crank power/torque. Yes?
 
I got that impression too. They state the F800 is nearly 100 lbs lighter than the Interceptor. Then they complain because there's too much ground clearance. (WTF?!? is it possible to have too much leaning ability?) And get this....they thought the saddlebags on the Beemer were too big. That's kind of like a woman's mammary glands being too big or a Hemi being too powerful....it's just not possible.

It's pretty obvious that Cycle World is pandering to their bigger advertiser. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. CW lost its credibility when they started featuring the chopper crap on the covers.

Interestingly enough, Roadracing World had a really nice write-up of the F800's in last month's issue and praised it for being a better bike overall that the Interceptor....even saying the F800S would make a good track day bike.
 
Apples and Oranges

As I read the article I realized that they were trying to make an Apples and Oranges comparison between the bikes, just to make the Honda look better! When you realize that they were comparing 20th century vs 21st century technology! They probably had to make the old tech look good because that is were their bread and butter comes from.
 
What BMW Motorrad Says

I just got off the phone with BMW Motorrad of North America after I sent them a e-mail question on the CycleWorld article. The difference is that BMW certifies the Power and Torque on a dyno at the shaft. I mentioned the difference between the advertised specs and the CycleWorld "findings". CycleWorld was measuring the power and torque at the rear wheel and not the crank, as BMW, and most manufacturers do. Also, the difference between the spec for torque (63 Ft/Lbs at 5,800 rpm vs CycleWorlds 53 at 8000 rpm) is bogus because that is where the F800ST's torque is starting to fall off.
 
cycle world

I read the article, quickly, a few days ago, and thought it was pretty balanced. I will have another look at it, in light of your comments, and because I am a big fan of the new 800.

I don't find CW to be anti BMW overall.

Rinty
 
Last edited:
f800 and CW

Just an opinion, CW has opinions based on thier editorial staff, I don't think it's intentionally biased
 
A discerning reader in the market for either of these bikes would find that the details favor the BMW, despite the homage to the squids.

They try to sell quarter mile times as a factor, which is what squids read, but is not really relevant for these bikes.

The meat is in the details.

A 25 year old model vs. a new design.
Unscrapable pegs.
Adjustable width bags.
Smoother engine.
equal price tags. (the biggest draw for BMW right there!)
37 mpg vs. 46 mpg
 
You guys crack me up. Once again the MOA guys have drank the koolaid and think everyone is out to get them.

Those bikes have little in common except the displacement. They both are what they are and they are very hard to compare.

SJBMW do you really think the Honda is a 25 year old design?

FWIW I have ridden a few times with some of the CW guys, they like BMWs. I know a few of them have BMWs in their personal garage.
 
I thought the F800 did very well in the comparison. A new bike against one with a history in a ÔÇÿclass shoot outÔÇÖ, So the class has only two bikes as they point out. The Interceptor/VFR has multiple CW Ten Best awards (with a capital M) ÔÇ£Truth be known, you wouldnÔÇÖt be the teeniest bit disappointed with either of these two.ÔÇØ Then they flipped the editorial coin and it came up Honda.

You looking for validation or can you make your own decision on which of the two best fits you as an individual rider?
 
kreinke said:
I got that impression too. They state the F800 is nearly 100 lbs lighter than the Interceptor. Then they complain because there's too much ground clearance. (WTF?!? is it possible to have too much leaning ability?) And get this....they thought the saddlebags on the Beemer were too big. That's kind of like a woman's mammary glands being too big or a Hemi being too powerful....it's just not possible.

It's pretty obvious that Cycle World is pandering to their bigger advertiser. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. CW lost its credibility when they started featuring the chopper crap on the covers.

Interestingly enough, Roadracing World had a really nice write-up of the F800's in last month's issue and praised it for being a better bike overall that the Interceptor....even saying the F800S would make a good track day bike.
Click to expand...

I was dissapointed in the article as well however to put things in a little more perspective; They complained that the BMW bags were to wide yet had a smaller capacity than the Honda's, even expanded all the way. They also did not "complain" about the ground clearance, they actually praised it but were surprised it was so abundant.

A second note, calling the VFR800 a 25 year old design, as another poster did, because it's based on the original VF750S of 1983 is like calling the R1200RT a 30 year old design because it's based on the original R100RT or calling an "07 Corvette a 50 year old design because it's based ib the original from the 50's. Kind of a stretch there.

Having said all that, I don't think the bikes are actually viaing for the same marketshare so the comparison probably needs to be read with that in mind. The only thing that really pushed the Honda ahead was peak power and if you reread the article with that in mind, the F800ST comes out much better as a light weight, do everything, all arounder. How about some more leg room in there, ok BMW?

Now, pass the Kool Aid please.
 
some people can read, but comprehension eludes them.

25 year old MODEL.

vs. a NEW Designed bike.
 
sjbmw said:
some people can read, but comprehension eludes them.

25 year old MODEL.

vs. a NEW Designed bike.
Click to expand...


Sorry, some how I felt that the 25 year old part was meant to hold some significance but now that you tell me it is irrelevant, your bringing it up makes perfect sense to me. I appreciate the correction and feel I understand your comment much better now.

:dunno
 
cycle world

Good discussion, but I think I'll stick with Glenlivet.

I have read a number of comparo articles over the years, where the VFR has come out on top. The major criticisms were the lack of factory hard bags until a few years ago, and the big power hit up top with the variable valve timing on the more recent models.

I haven't ridden the VFR, but one of the best features of the F 800 is its broad power band. They pull hard from 3000 rpm on up. And the front end feel of the S model that I rode is as nice as anything I've ridden. If the VFR didn't have matching bottom end power, then in a scrum in the twisties against an F 800 rider, the Honda pilot would have to be in the right gear all the time.

Rinty
 
The March issue of "Bike" magazine from the UK, usually a champion of the VFR, gave a clear win to the F800 in a similar comparison. Given that they previously have said they thought the VFR was just about the best bike in existence, that's high praise indeed.
 
Oldhway said:
The only thing that really pushed the Honda ahead was peak power and if you reread the article with that in mind, the F800ST comes out much better as a light weight, do everything, all arounder. How about some more leg room in there, ok BMW?

Now, pass the Kool Aid please.
Click to expand...

I'll take my Kool Aid with a shot of Captain Morgan please.:thumb

The last sentence of the article says it all. It didn't leave any room for misinterpretation. Said something like "If you need a good sport tourer you only need to stop at your local Honda dealer."

Considering the F800 either tied to spanked the Interceptor and had an equal number of nits to pic, I call that bias. Especially considering the engine, the most important part of the motorcycle. They still don't like the V-tec but loved the F800's mill.
 
I'll read it again

I didn't find anything untoward about the article. If anything disappointed in the wet weight. Was hoping it'd come in around 460 w/ fluids but seems to be ~ 500lbs fully loaded. (They listed 485 dry ... presumably everything but gas)

When it comes to wt & power specs I put more credence in magazines (especially MCNews) than manufactures, especially with the silly dry wt specs. BMW and Ducati tend to be not as outrageous (relatively) with the disparity btwn dry and wet.
 
I reread the article and found one more thing conspicuously missing from the comparo.

power whine mode start:violin

There was no mention of the cost of ownership of these bikes as far as maintenance. Usually magazines make at least a passing mention of maintenance costs. (I.E. can you do your own oil changes, etc.) They talk about how durable the valve train is, what are the service intervals, etc.

INMO the little Beemer has the VFR beat hands down (which is probably why they omitted it) in maintenance.

The VFr has a chain drive whereas the Beemer has a belt (some F650CS owners have gotten over 100,000 miles out of theirs).

The Beemer has finger-follower valves whereas the VFR has the complicated V-tec shim-under-bucket valves (twice as many of them too).....not to mention the VFR has more plastic and a good mechanic will probably spend more than and hour of labor just getting the damned thing stripped down to do a service.

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but the fact that the mentioned 1/4 mile times on bike that'll never be raced, but omitted maintenance costs where a good many sport-touring folks like to do their own wrenching stinks. :violin
power whine over.
 
Kreinke, let me get this straight, you're saying the BMW will be cheaper to maintain than the Honda in the long run? You really feel that way? You think they maybe posted 1/4 times and stayed away from ownership costs as a way of keeping the Honda on top?


I am with M1ka on this one.


SJBMW, my reading comprehension is fine. I understand the difference bewteen a new design and a 25 year old model

Here is where I have a problem.

"The meat is in the details" (your words)

Cycle Word uses that statment, (new/25year) but ties no favoritism to it.

You use that stament as a plus to the F800 side of the sheet. By doing so you are implying that the new design is better than the 25 year old model. CW did not even hint at that. I think you took their words out of context and applied them as you see fit.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a Honda fan. I have owned a few, but I do not have one at this time. FWIF I have 5 BMWs in the garage right now. The problem I have with Honda is I think they have been engineering the soul out of their products for many many years. Yes, they are good, almost too good, but that is where the problem lies. They are made for mass consumpution, made to work for everyone.
 
SCQTT said:
Kreinke, let me get this straight, you're saying the BMW will be cheaper to maintain than the Honda in the long run? You really feel that way? You think they maybe posted 1/4 times and stayed away from ownership costs as a way of keeping the Honda on top?
.
Click to expand...

I wasn't speaking Chinese was I?

Do you really feel that that Wurlitzer, Rube Goldberg contraption of an engine is easier to maintain than a simple in-line twin?

Are you trying to tell me that a 16 valve motorcycle with a funky hydraulic valve actuation on 2 valves per cylinder, plus chain as opposed to belt drive, plus more plastic to remove, plus fewer miles between valve adjustments, equals a cheaper to maintain motorcycle? I didn't think so. I bet the F800 is going to be LOTS cheaper in the maintenance department in the long run.

As far as quater-mile times....Yeah, I'll go right out and get a VFR because I'm .5 second closer to beating that 'Busa I've seen around town.
 
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