2007 R1200 RT Rear Brake question

Pogo

Ninth year in a row that we, as a traffic demographic, are dying in record numbers.

But still we rally against even a whisper of mandatory helmet laws, consider plugging our tires a permanent fix, and rationalize a plethora of braking habits.

Pogo had it right: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Granted, I have benefitted from a unique learning curve when it comes to rider training, but I chose to channel that knowledge into teaching new riders that operating a motorcycle is not a game of "anything goes," but rather embracing proven techniques when it comes to paths of travel, negotiating curves and braking skills.

Perhaps the next generation of young riders will not view braking as a menu from which to select 'styles,' but adhere to developing good motor memory by always using combination braking, regardless of the system engineered into their ride.

Getting back to the question.... It is not normal.

Make sure you have it documented in writing. If the dealer will not fix it, call the number in the booklet and attempt to have BMW resolve the issue.

Motorcycle owners and dealers are joined by their love of the bike and their differing definitions of the word "normal."

Any day now, I expect to read a post where a dealer thinks it is "normal" for an engine to fall off a bike.

Easy

Greenwald said:

Ninth year in a row that we, as a traffic demographic, are dying in record numbers.

But still we rally against even a whisper of mandatory helmet laws, consider plugging our tires a permanent fix, and rationalize a plethora of braking habits.

Pogo had it right: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Granted, I have benefitted from a unique learning curve when it comes to rider training, but I chose to channel that knowledge into teaching new riders that operating a motorcycle is not a game of "anything goes," but rather embracing proven techniques when it comes to paths of travel, negotiating curves and braking skills.

Perhaps the next generation of young riders will not view braking as a menu from which to select 'styles,' but adhere to developing good motor memory by always using combination braking, regardless of the system engineered into their ride.

Click to expand...

Since this is really off-topic for the discussion at hand - as a moderator I'll ask that you continue this discussion in the suitable forum for it.. which would likely be the "Clubhouse"

Thank you for your cooperation.

Time To Go

deilenberger said:

Since this is really off-topic for the discussion at hand - as a moderator I'll ask that you continue this discussion in the suitable forum for it.. which would likely be the "Clubhouse"

Thank you for your cooperation.

Click to expand...

Two final points. First, as for rear brake shuddering, this is a warranty issue to be addressed by a dealer. If you do not get satisfaction, try this: drop a brief e-mail to BMW on their wedsite address for customer contact. Trust me, in about 72 hours, your phone will be ringing with your dealer on the other end, anxious to resolve the issue and remain in good graces with his coporate boss!

As for 'debating the braking issue,' I suspect this would be a "dog chasing it's tail" discussion. Older, experienced riders (a demographic I belong to) are rapidly becoming the highest statistic when one tracks motorcycle fatalities. Why? Several reasons (age reduces our ability to survive crashes; affording very powerful machines; reduced risk awareness due to vision and coordination issues, etc.) exist, but refusing to 'unlearn' bad habits that we believe have kept us safe all these years makes the short list.

Ergo, we, the 'experienced' riders will not usher in a better future of crash reductions. That torch must be passed to newer riders that are better educated and practice the core skills that do not change with miles ridden, braking technology or time in the saddle.

Greenwald said:

With nearly 18,000 miles on my two-year-old R1200RT, I agree with previous postings: any rear-brake shuddering is abnormal, and should be addressed by a service visit, as it is a warranty issue.

Click to expand...

Greenwald, your bike would have Generation One IABS, the issue being discussed here, on topic at least, involves the Generation Two IABS which is on 07' models. How these bikes integrate the brakes are completely different. Interesting that on this thread, all those of opinion that this is an abnormal issue, with the exception of SilverRt all have bikes with Generation One IABS.

I'm of the opinion under certain conditions that Generation Two IABS, 2007 models, will have a slight pulsation in the rear pedal. Maybe the use of the word "shudder", implies a more serious problem. Either way, taking it to the dealer is the course of action if your unsure about the braking system on a new bike, just don't be surprised when you get the "they all do that" response. Of course the "they all" part implying 07 IABS2 models.

Abs

Thanks for differentiating between the two generations of Integrated ABS. Learned something new. Mine are 'servo-assisted,' which creates that annoying little whine whenever brakes are activated. Does the '07 models, which I believe did away with the electro-servo approach, perform more quietly and have a better response?

I agree with you that a dealer visit is still the order of the day for the original poster of this thread, but as you say, he/she may be curtly dismissed by the dealer. Time will tell.

I have found my dealer-customer relationship to be quite cordial and trustworthy. I hope his/hers will be the same.

Enjoy BMW.

Something has occurred to me after reading all of this. Automobiles have had only one brake pedal forever. The brakes, front and rear, are "integrated." For several years, now, nearly all autos have had ABS systems. They work fine, and we don't have to stomp/pull on two brake activating gadgets.

In the days of yore, the extra pedal, or lever, which is now called a "parking" brake, was known as an "emergency" brake. It could be used in the event the primary system failed...and they did.

It may well be that the bike world is only just now catching up with the automobile world, at least in the braking department?

Some of us harken back to the days of "dyna-flow" transmissions; a time when all automatic transmissons were scorned, and standards ruled the road. It was a hard position out of which to "shift," but nearly all vehicles (of late including many heavy duty commercial trucks), have automatic transmissions. We have gone that way because the computers and mechanics are now smarter and faster than we are...generally, the likes of Sterling Moss excluded.

With that in mind, perhaps we have reached the point, in the bike world, where we can simply and easily grab a handful of "front" brake lever, and let computerized mechanics take it's course?

Gary

hass said:

I have a R1200R.

I have a shudder in the rear brake pedal when braking from slower speeds which I have noticed occurs in 2nd gear. I will mention this at my 1000km service and see what they say.

Click to expand...

I realised today - after reading this thread and doing a bit of testing - that I only get the shudder if I press the rear brake and the front (integrated) brake together.

If I just use the rear brake it's fine and if I just use the front lever it's fine.

Maybe it's just a feature of the combined system?

ggfossen said:

With that in mind, perhaps we have reached the point, in the bike world, where we can simply and easily grab a handful of "front" brake lever, and let computerized mechanics take it's course?

Gary

Click to expand...

Gary - IMHO - actually - yes. The new non-servo linked brakes are really that good. As mentioned earlier - I rarely use the rear pedal - but the back brake IS being activated since the rear wheel gets sooted up by brake dust much faster than the front. The bike is capable of short, well controlled, smooth stops and NOT touchy at walking speeds like the Servo brakes were (which I had on my last bike - an R1150RS.)

It would not surprise me at all to see stops using both front and rear controls that are longer then stops done with just the front lever. I suspect what people are feeling when they use both is the rear ABS activating because there is excessive braking force on the rear wheel. Once the ABS activates - your stopping distances get longer.

I have the non-servo brakes, and can recall once or twice when I used both feeling something in the rear pedal. Wouldn't surprise me at all that what I felt was the ABS cycling.

2007 R1200RT Rear Brake

I have an 07 RT and yes I've experienced the rear wheel shudder or pulsing so to speak. It only happens at very low speed and usually soon after taking off for the first time on a ride. Other than that little quirk the brakes are phonominal.

I took the experienced riders course soon after purchasing this bike and by using both brakes I was stopping in a much shorter distance and faster than anybody else on the course. In fact I have never had a bike with brakes this good before. I owned an 01 Goldwing before this one with ABS and those brakes were not near as good as the RT's.

This one does not have the servo assist and so is not near as sensitive as the 05s and 06s plus that annoying whine is no longer there.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the brakes but I am going to ask the dealer about it the next time I visit.

On my 07 RT the only time I notice the pulsation in the rear brake pedal is when the rear is applied after the front is applied. If the rear is applied by it's self,there is no pulsation. The pulsation I am speaking of is a 2 or 3 hit in the pedal.
Think about this. Your braking with the front brake,the rear is also applied at this time (by the linked system). Now you apply the rear. The added presure has to go somewhere. Hence the "pulsation" as the system bleeds the excess presure. Just my opinion.

What I feel is SO minor as to be a non-issue IMHO. It doesn't seem to change how the bike is stopping.

I spoke to my mechanic during the 1000km service and he said it is a function of the ABS. Basically when you brake with the front brake you activate both the front and rear (which we all know). And when you use the rear brake you activate only the rear (which we also all know).

However, if you brake with both the front and rear then you activate the rear twice which causes it to brake really really hard which causes the ABS to kick in on the rear which causes the shudder or vibration we feel. He insists it's the ABS even on a fine sunny day - the brakes are simply that good.

The solution: lose the habit of braking with both front and rear. I took his advice - it took me a week to relearn. However, now I can never ride another bike without fishtailing the back end

deilenberger said:

What I feel is SO minor as to be a non-issue IMHO. It doesn't seem to change how the bike is stopping.

Click to expand...

I haven't seen any mention here of how this new Continental-Teves braking system works. When you use the hand lever, the rear is operated by a pump in the ABS unit. If you add the foot pressure, at some point you override the pump and the braking pressure to the rear is from how much you add with the foot lever. When the foot pressure overrides the pump, the pump is stopped and there is some valving action occuring which directs the pressure from the pump or the foot pressure. I am wondering if this can be detected as pulsing. This all occurs well before the wheel locking point.
However, if too much foot lever pressure is used, the ABS control does become active. The same pump is activated and fluid is pumped out of the calipers thru different valves actuating. In the case of the front braking, the pump only applies during ABS active.
Another interesting improvement with this new system is that during ABS active, and if the rear wheel rotation is not sensed as occuring after a short time despite brake circuit pressure lowering, then rear wheel lift-off is assumed and the pressure to the front braking is reduced to allow the rear wheel to contact the road. This works best if power or engine braking to the rear wheel is eliminated, ie, the clutch is pulled. Something new to learn.