Ridden: F800ST

KBasa said:

The 1150R will have an advantage if the pavement gets really nasty, mostly due to para/telelever suspension.

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KBasa, Doesn't this show the bike has a paralever suspension?

Paralever? Where?

From what I've read (and intuitively) the Paralever helps mitigate driveshaft effects. That's why you'll see it on BMW's and Guzzi's. The R1200C doesn't have it as the driveshaft is long enough to reduce most of the driveshaft 'jacking'. My first bike was a Suzuki Intruder and the driveshaft effects were much pronounced. (no paralevel or such compensation)

No need for it with Belt or Chain drives bikes. Different dirve train forces. (And no lever in that pic)

Check this article for a pic of monolever (swingarm) vs. paralever. http://www.largiader.com/paralever/

Kevin said:

From what I've read (and intuitively) the Paralever helps mitigate driveshaft effects. That's why you'll see it on BMW's and Guzzi's. The R1200C doesn't have it as the driveshaft is long enough to reduce most of the driveshaft 'jacking'. My first bike was a Suzuki Intruder and the driveshaft effects were much pronounced. (no paralevel or such compensation)

No need for it with Belt or Chain drives bikes. Different dirve train forces. (And no lever in that pic)

Check this article for a pic of monolever (swingarm) vs. paralever. http://www.largiader.com/paralever/

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The driveshaft effects of the r50/2 I drove were called "torque steer". I see many parallells between the center mounting arm and the outer belt dirive of the F800 to the paralever, you are right this is isn't one.

Then again, I will not miss it as the F imparts no torque steer. The pic shows rear suspension is certainly beefy enough. But it is a single-sided drive, "fork assembly as it attached on both sides.

Thanks for the link, I have bookmarked it.

flash412 said:

KBasa, did you find that the plastic skin parts felt thin, cheap and brittle? When you knock on it, it sounds brittle. I keep waiting to hear a report from someone who dropped an F800. The material feels to me like styrene that will "explode" in a parking lot tip-over. Just wonderin'.

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Hey, Flash! Always looking on the bright side, eh?

-Gary

I just traded my R1150RS in for the F800ST. I have a paltry 400 miles thus far, but I'm extremely pleased. It certainly handles great. I feel like I'm much more in touch with the ride. A pretty good combination of fun and usefulness, based on my limited experience.

Post a pic in Tweety's thread and let's get a sticky started, I'll add mine tomorrow evening if you can get me off the thing long enough to upload to smugmug!

Tweety1 said:

The driveshaft effects of the r50/2 I drove were called "torque steer". I see many parallells between the center mounting arm and the outer belt dirive of the F800 to the paralever, you are right this is isn't one.

Then again, I will not miss it as the F imparts no torque steer. The pic shows rear suspension is certainly beefy enough. But it is a single-sided drive, "fork assembly as it attached on both sides.

Thanks for the link, I have bookmarked it.

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The F800 final drive system is not a paralever in any way. The paralever was developed to reduce "shaft jacking" a phenomenon the causes the rear end of shaft driven bikes to rise under acceleration and drop under deceleration. A paralever has two universal joints to allow the final drive unit to work independently of the shaft.

"Torque steer" is a symptom of front wheel drive cars. In those vehicles, torque from the driving front wheel can produce feedback in the steering that can cause the car to dart from side to side as power is applied.

The F800 final drive system is a very straightforward swingarm with belt drive and directly mounted shock. There's nothing fancy here. All swingarms are, to some degree, the same. They may be single sided, they may be more traditional and carry an axle from both ends. They may have one or two shocks, mounted in a variety of ways. But they all have two mounting points, one on each side of the frame, or as is the case of this bike, the rear of the case.

KBasa said:

The F800 final drive system is not a paralever in any way. The paralever was developed to reduce "shaft jacking" a phenomenon the causes the rear end of shaft driven bikes to rise under acceleration and drop under deceleration. A paralever has two universal joints to allow the final drive unit to work independently of the shaft.

"Torque steer" is a symptom of front wheel drive cars. In those vehicles, torque from the driving front wheel can produce feedback in the steering that can cause the car to dart from side to side as power is applied.

The F800 final drive system is a very straightforward swingarm with belt drive and directly mounted shock. There's nothing fancy here. All swingarms are, to some degree, the same. They may be single sided, they may be more traditional and carry an axle from both ends. They may have one or two shocks, mounted in a variety of ways. But they all have two mounting points, one on each side of the frame, or as is the case of this bike, the rear of the case.

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Thanks, KBasa

It has been 17 years since I last had my formerly-Dad's '68 R50/2, and you are right, it was called "shaft jacking", but i heard it also called "shaft steering". It was pronounced in the older, non-paralever shaft-driven bikes, and it also caused some unintended steering or veering to one side.

There's only one place in your writing where I do have to disagree. It's when you say "There's nothing fancy here" abut the F800's swingarm.

That's because the side arm is quite a fancy, good looking metalpiece. It is both sturdy and gorgeous at the same time, and that it only comes down one side of the bike, saves substantial weight.

Now I can't wait to find a nice Ti replacement for the exhaust can that also save weight, as years ago I replaced the 38 lb can on my Bandit with a 6 lb Ti Yoshi RS something. That made a big difference in flickabilty and I think it will here, as well.

I plan on driving it as much as possible this week to work and back. Then, after a few long weekend drives, it's be up to Heber for me for the first BMW club rally I have ever been to. I am looking forward to meeting a lot of knowledgable people, there, as well as the ones I meet here.

I feel pretty good for one who was about to quit riding altogether due to the shoulder issues I have had over the last 5 or so years. This bike at 400 dry pounds and a low COG has made it so I don't have bar lean, and I can steer it well with legs, using the arms as ballast. This way the shoulder takes less impact and it cannot make me wince like it used to. The straight up seating position on the S fit my 5'11" height perfectly.

Your write up was great too. Tweety1