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after 10 yrs....disappointment

D

DanGreene

Guest
:banghead Well, after 10 years of happy BMW riding I have been very disappointed. I am looking for any suggestions from those familiar with the new CanBus and the automatic ignition disabling system where the ignition recognizes the coded key.

As some of you know, I picked up a new R1200R on Feb 24. I put about 250 miles on it the first day. I then rode it back to the dealer on Feb 28th to pick up my side cases I had ordered, for another 30 miles. This past Saturday, March 3rd, I left the house to go on a ride. I had ridden about 40 miles and stopped to pee. Bike would not start and kept giving the disabled code. Totally helpless. If this new system does not recognize your key, there is absolutely nothing you can do to get the bike started. So I call the dealer as I am about 30 miles away from Greenville, SC. They were there within the hour to pick me up. We get back and hook the bike up to the computer and in the words of the tech, "I can't get it to talk to me". No one at the dealer knows what is going on. Apparently my key somehow lost the identity code. I am very disgruntled to say the least and still no word on what the problem is. Anybody know anymore about this system?
 
I am sorry to hear about your problem. The inability of anyone to be able to repair a bike equipped with the can-bus system is the main reason I picked my 06 R 1150 GSA over a 1200. That and the ride/ looks appealed to me more as well. :p
Just tell the dealer you have lost all confidence in this particular bike and you want a new one. This worked for my brother when his X5 took a (computer) dump 3 days into ownership. The dealer gave him a new vehicle on the spot. It seems BMW ought to hire someone from Apple or so for their software and can the folks who are doing that work now...:bluduh
 
Dan, what a bummer! I would work hard to get a new replacement bike. If the Dealer can fix it they can use it in their demo fleet. You shouldn't be stuck with a broke 300 mile bike that the dealer can't seem to fix. JMO!
 
Dan, what a bummer! I would work hard to get a new replacement bike. If the Dealer can fix it they can use it in their demo fleet. You shouldn't be stuck with a broke 300 mile bike that the dealer can't seem to fix. JMO!


Thanks Chuck. I have already put a request in writing to the dealer and BMW that I want to cancel the deal and return the bike to them. I will keep you posted on the outcome. I do not think I should have to accept a new $15,000 motorcycle that has been taken apart and put back together on some diagnostic investigation. I also would have trouble trusting the bike again. I mean one is totally helpless when this happens. Absolutely no way to start a motorcycle that has been disabled like this. I keep having visions of the middle of Kansas with night coming on. No offense to any of you who live in Kansas, some of it is just a little remote. :brow
 
Sounds like a failure in one of the control modules. Taken apart? It probably won't be much more than you'd see during a 600 mile service.

They'll probably wind up replacing one of the controllers, which isn't much more than snap out, snap in.

I've got three years on my R12GS without a problem and coming up on two years on the R12RT.
 
The inability of anyone to be able to repair a bike equipped with the can-bus system is the main reason I picked my 06 R 1150 GSA over a 1200. ...

Silliness. The canbus is nothing but some wires. The computers are not that different from your 1150.

The big difference here, and the reason the bike died, is the idiotic and unreliable immobilizer system.

Works great on cars, but not infalable. Add weather and exposure to it, and it is less than great.

It is a rare enough problem overall, but I wish BMW would make it an option rather than a standard "feature".

As for the "canbus" system, it has been on cars for many years, and is nothing to be afraid of.

Jim :brow
 
Please tell me too!! How I can fix it in the middle of nowhere without a BMW computer???? :lurk
 
?? and Comments

One thing I kinda dont like is having to use that expensive key to remove the seat or unlock the bags. Does anyone where I could get one cut without the electronics just to use one the bags and seat. I hate putting pressure on the "wired" one.

After reading the post I also realize that I have no idea how the key works. If it got next to a credit card reader or xray machine could it get wiped clean ? Ive had credit cards ruined at work by getting them too close to magnets ect.

If electronics fail it ususally occurs rather quickly. If they replace a module and you get a few miles on it you are most likely Ok for the long haul. Maybe yours just got the bum module ?

An ovride would be a great idea, Im guessing they could set something up in that computer involving a password to disable that feature. It would be rough putting it in with one button but it would beat getting stranded.

Mjuskiw
Akron Oh
 
One thing I kinda dont like is having to use that expensive key to remove the seat or unlock the bags. Does anyone where I could get one cut without the electronics just to use one the bags and seat. I hate putting pressure on the "wired" one.

After reading the post I also realize that I have no idea how the key works. If it got next to a credit card reader or xray machine could it get wiped clean ? Ive had credit cards ruined at work by getting them too close to magnets ect.

If electronics fail it ususally occurs rather quickly. If they replace a module and you get a few miles on it you are most likely Ok for the long haul. Maybe yours just got the bum module ?

An ovride would be a great idea, Im guessing they could set something up in that computer involving a password to disable that feature. It would be rough putting it in with one button but it would beat getting stranded.

Mjuskiw
Akron Oh

On the hexheads, the key has a transmitter in it and there's a ring antenna around the lock. The antenna reads the key to make sure it matches the code stored in memory. If it matches, it allows you to start the bike.

I've read about a few ring antenna failures, which might be the problem here.
 
Fill me in Jim. So what are its advantages?

No fuses, for starters. You're never going to melt a portion of your wiring harness before the fuse pops. The Canbus can read that there's too much resistance on the circuit and shut it down. If you've ever dealt with a nicked harness, you know how much of a hassle it can cause.

Functionally, you can transmit multiple signals through one wire, which makes the harness lighter and easier to repair if there is a problem. Ducati has been using them for years, as have many automobile manufacturers. The technology is pretty well known outside BMW motorcycle circles.

I think what we've seen with this gentleman's bike is a component failure. Whether that's the fault of CanBus is yet to be seen, but I'd bet that with a fully analog wiring plan, a failed component still would lead to immobilization of the bike.

The same sorts of criticism were leveled at the Kbikes when they came out. Everybody feared the technology they didn't know how to diagnose. Now, Kbikes are widely regarded as terrific bikes. Same with oilheads, which were roundly despised by many as too complicated.

If the CanBus system sticks around, look for diagnosis tools to start to appear as software tools for your laptop. This has already happened with cars, so it makes sense to expect to see it for bikes. The CanBus protocols are fairly well specified, so making diagnostic tools shouldn't be much of a stretch.

YMMV, of course.
 
diagnosis tools

If the CanBus system sticks around, look for diagnosis tools to start to appear as software tools for your laptop. This has already happened with cars, so it makes sense to expect to see it for bikes. The CanBus protocols are fairly well specified, so making diagnostic tools shouldn't be much of a stretch.

YMMV, of course.

http://www.hex.co.za/gs911/howtobuy.html

Diagnosis tools are here already - I got mine about 2 months ago, the cool thing is if you have a Bluetooth phone that can run Java you don't need a computer.

Nokia-6620.jpg


Dave
 
This reeks of the same kind of shenanigans lots of companies play with digital rights management. It's anti-customer, as you have discovered. Google "defective by design" and you might agree. I can't think of a single good reason for this kind of lockout (*especially* in a malfunctioning scenario), except to guarantee that the dealer has "rights" to service your bike that you'll never have, unless you manage to "break" the DRM, and possible the EULA for the bike/warranty. Lighter harness? Sheesh. I'm not drinking that koolaid.

Why, yes, this information is affecting my next bike purchase.
 
Please tell me too!! How I can fix it in the middle of nowhere without a BMW computer???? :lurk

Same way you fix your 1150 BMW with no computer!

If you insist on being a ludite, that's fine with me, but don't go spreading the rumor that the canbus is some kind of motorcycle voodoo that is unfixable in the normal maner. Take the time to learn how to work with it.

With the exception of the immobilizer system nothing on the bike will leave you any more stranded than on any oilhead.

Jim :brow

In 5 years those who now get the current 1200 series will be lamenting the newest innovations, just like the airhead crowd did/does the oilheads.:rolleyes
 
This reeks of the same kind of shenanigans lots of companies play with digital rights management. It's anti-customer, as you have discovered. Google "defective by design" and you might agree. I can't think of a single good reason for this kind of lockout (*especially* in a malfunctioning scenario), except to guarantee that the dealer has "rights" to service your bike that you'll never have, unless you manage to "break" the DRM, and possible the EULA for the bike/warranty. Lighter harness? Sheesh. I'm not drinking that koolaid.

Why, yes, this information is affecting my next bike purchase.

I think you can see above that diagnostic tools are readily available. They're not particularly expensive, either. I think it listed for $199?

I don't think we're any more locked out of a CanBus bike than we're locked out diagnosing any bike. You just need to have the right tools to do so. That's true for any bike, I think, old, new or somewhere in between.

I've been doing my own maintenance on my R12s for a few years. They're not much different than my oilhead or, for that matter, maintaining my R100.

But hey, we all have different tolerances for technology and we'll all buy what we're comfortable with, right? :dunno

If the dealer's "locked out", that's the first step in the diagnosis, isn't it? :)
 
Lighter harness? Sheesh. I'm not drinking that koolaid.I'm not drinking that koolaid.

Why, yes, this information is affecting my next bike purchase.

You can drink it. The bike is lighter and more reliable because of CanBus technology.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could bring back the "good old days" when you could repair your R-bike by the side of the road with a rock. Of course, it would be even better if you weren't stuck by the side of the road and didn't need a rock.

I have two CanBus BMWs -- an '05 R1200RT and an '07 R1200RT. I have had zero problems. There were many reasons I selected a modern BMW: strong light-weight construction, general reliability, excellent handling, ABS brakes, ESA suspension, electronic adjustable windshield, economical operation, high-performance motor, aerodynamic fairing, and modern electronics -- yes, even CanBus.

There are no "perfect" motorcycles. I'm sure the dealer will sort out Troutluck's ignition key issue. I don't think it would make any sense to throw out the baby with the bath water.
 
You can drink it. The bike is lighter and more reliable because of CanBus technology. . .

There are no "perfect" motorcycles. I'm sure the dealer will sort out Troutluck's ignition key issue. I don't think it would make any sense to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Not my bike, but you're missing my point, I think. I don't doubt that harness is lighter; I doubt that BMW went this route to save weight. As an owner of a late-model oilhead, I know that if the brain dies, my bike is a giant paperweight. I'm no "luddite," and I fully appreciate the joys of electronic ignition.

My beef is this: It's not OK for manufacturers to create systems that are undiagnosable/inscrutable by their owners. We're rapidly moving, I fear, to a manufacturing culture in which a dealer can't tell you what was wrong with your bike, because that information is proprietary to the brand. You just get a bill and a "repair code" that vaguely states that something was repaired or replaced. No service contract? Sorry. You'll have to violate the DMCA to fix it yourself, using diagnostic tools you download from some Russian mob website.

The fact that it's possible for the bikes to be "locked out" makes this a scary possibility. Never mind me, though. As Dennis Miller says, I don't want to get off on a rant here.
 
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