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Thread: after 10 yrs....disappointment

  1. #31
    Focused kbasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troutluck View Post
    It seems that whole crux of the biscuit comes down to this:

    You either

    a) Want a system with average reliability and relatively low incidence of catastrophic failure that's easily diagnosable and repairable with easy-to-find parts;

    or,

    b) You want a system with high reliability, but that cannot be easily diagnosed or fixed without special tools or instruments (we could debate the incidence of catastrophic failure here. Seems to me that anything that causes the bike to Not Move(tm) is a catastrophic failure, i.e., wonky key transmitter with secret codes, mysterious ABS failure codes, etc.).

    These are deeply personal choices. Part of owning a bike for me is the feeling that I have some control over technology. If the bike decides to Not Move, I want to feel somewhat competent in determining the cause. This doesn't apply to every aspect of my life. If the Ford doesn't start, it's probably getting towed, because I'm not going to break out the tools and troubleshoot while my family waits in the heat or cold.

    However, I enjoy tinkering with the bike. If I screw something up, it might take me a few days to figure out at my leisure, but I'm not without other wheels.

    I'm not saying that the current crop of BMW bike technology prevents you from doing any troubleshooting at all, but it does make it harder for your average person to make any assumptions about what might be wrong. Air, spark, and fuel become tangential.

    This could explain the Ural thing, maybe, but I don't want to go there. Yet.
    Well put.

    With a couple hexheads in the house, I can do all the basic maintenance I want, but if there's diagnostics to be done, I'm going to need to buy the right tool and learn how to use it.

    Similar to working on my airhead, just different enough to make some folks uncomfortable as they try to sort new skills.

    Vive le difference!
    Dave Swider
    Marin County, CA

    Some bikes. Some with motors, some without.

  2. #32
    X-Troller hexst's Avatar
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    What BMW calls canbus has been around for over ten years in the auto industry, Ducati,Triumph and most of the Asian bikes are also going that way.
    Knick
    R1200GS
    Vespa ET4

  3. #33
    Loose Cannon flash412's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HexST View Post
    What BMW calls canbus has been around for over ten years in the auto industry, Ducati,Triumph and most of the Asian bikes are also going that way.
    What BMW calls fuel injection has been around for over ten years in the auto industry. Ducati, Triumph and most of the Asian bikes are also going that way. However NONE of the other manufacturers REQUIRE you to take it to an official licensed dealer to get it serviced. Everyone EXCEPT BMW is "open source." When a BMW component dies, if you are far from a dealer, yer fooked. Other than swapping out components with known-good examples, you can't even troubleshoot without the Official BMW MoDuhTec machine (only available on LEASE from korporate BMW). Double your fun as BMW closes dealerships, putting owners further and further from the nearest dealer all the time.
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  4. #34
    On the Road RONDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBasa View Post
    Wow. How do you connect to the bike?
    Connects right to the diagnostic port under the seat on my R12GS Adv. There are 2 version one Bluetooth & USB and one just USB.

    there is a good write up here: http://www.r1200gs.info/misc/GS-911.html

    Dave

  5. #35
    On the Road RONDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flash412 View Post
    When a BMW component dies, if you are far from a dealer, yer fooked. Other than swapping out components with known-good examples, you can't even troubleshoot without the Official BMW MoDuhTec machine (only available on LEASE from korporate BMW). Double your fun as BMW closes dealerships, putting owners further and further from the nearest dealer all the time.

    As posted above you can get a GS911 for $200 and check for fault codes.

    Works great , I played around with mine by creating faults (unpluging stuff).

    Not everything is going to throw a fault code though - such as a failed drive spline

    Dave

  6. #36
    ltljohn LTLJOHN's Avatar
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    Can you provide a link for the GS-911??

  7. #37
    Kool Aid Dispenser! jimvonbaden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riderR1150GSAdv View Post
    I am not lowering myself to your level by namecalling but you go right ahead and get the latest tech that BMW deems necessary to push on its clients. I know the technology and it works well in cars but we are talking motorcycles, not 5 & 7 series BMW's. (who still have issues)
    Maybe it's me, but for now I'll let folks like you beta test the whole thing until it's foolproof. As far as rumor go, there aren't any as facts speak for themselves.
    Talk about thin skinned! I apologize if you think I was calling YOU a nasty name.

    If you insist on being a Luddite, that's fine with me, but don't go spreading the rumor that the can bus is some kind of motorcycle voodoo that is unfixable in the normal manner. Take the time to learn how to work with it.
    Luddite: An individual who is against technological change.
    Obviously I was too harsh!



    Many of you seem to think BMW is trying to pull one over on you or something.

    Paranoia runs rampant when ignorance reigns. (NOT directed at anyone specifically)

    The system is no more difficult to work on that any other, and as said by others, the other motorcycle manufacturers are also going canbus, because it works, and it works well.

    Canbus is NOT a one wire system, it is all about less wires and the flexibility to make the systems work more efficiently. But no amount of me saying so will change the minds of those who are against it.

    Just remember what has already been said, in a few years everyone will be lamenting the simplicity of the 2005 models in light of the complexity of the 2015 models.

    Once again, I am sorry if I offended anyone by disagreeing with them. It was my intention to illuminate, not disassociate.

    Jim

    PS How old does technology have to be to not be considered "Beta"? 20 years long enough, longer?
    www.JVBProductions.com Now, all videos available via download or DVD, or USB for the Wethead.

  8. #38
    Kool Aid Dispenser! jimvonbaden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dronning View Post
    Connects right to the diagnostic port under the seat on my R12GS Adv. There are 2 version one Bluetooth & USB and one just USB.

    there is a good write up here: http://www.r1200gs.info/misc/GS-911.html

    Dave
    The link is right there.

    Anyhow, I have used the GS-911, and it is a cool unit, and very useful. However, it really isn't necessary for working on your own bike 95% of the time, and certainly NO dealer "REQUIRES" the bike be brought in for regular service. That would be illegal.

    Here are a couple shots of the GS-911 in use.









    It showed a couple faults that I caused myself. One from a low battery, one from a defective aftermarket BRAKE light, and one from my Stiebel Horn.

    Jim
    www.JVBProductions.com Now, all videos available via download or DVD, or USB for the Wethead.

  9. #39
    Loose Cannon flash412's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dronning View Post
    As posted above you can get a GS911 for $200 and check for fault codes. Works great, I played around with mine by creating faults (unpluging stuff).
    DAYUM! Does the fact you bought one with your credit card immediately void your motorcycle's warranty (before you even plug it into your bike)?
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  10. #40
    ggfossen
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    OK, I'll bite. What does CANBUS stand for?

    I'm assuming it's something akin to the new mutil-plex wiring systems being used in semis?? If anything is late being draged into the new world, it's big trucks, and they have had it for a few years, now.

    Gary

  11. #41
    Cannonball Rider #52 darrylri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBasa View Post
    When's your hexhead showing up, Darryl?
    I think the R1200ST will be here in a week or two. It was supposed to have arrived in New Jersey yesterday.

    Today, however, I discovered that my 1928 R52 isn't timed right. Fortunately, it's made of stone-axe reliable parts, so it's no problem to set the timing.

    1. Remove the carburetor and induction pipes to get some clearance.
    2. Remove the Bosch magneto.
    3. Remove the right head.
    4. Bring the motor to TDC on compression on the right side.
    5. Back the motor up beyond 12mm of piston travel in the bore.
    6. Roll the motor up to just 12mm of piston travel left before TDC. (This takes all the slack out of the system.)
    7. Set the magneto so that the points are just breaking for a spark on the right cylinder.
    8. Without moving the magneto or the engine, get the big gear on the front of the magneto into mesh with the idler gear in the motor.
    9. Button everything up.
    Piece o' cake!
    --Darryl Richman, forum liaison
    http://darryl.crafty-fox.com

  12. #42
    RIDERR1150GSADV
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimVonBaden1 View Post
    Talk about thin skinned! I apologize if you think I was calling YOU a nasty name.





    Obviously I was too harsh!



    Many of you seem to think BMW is trying to pull one over on you or something.

    Paranoia runs rampant when ignorance reigns. (NOT directed at anyone specifically)

    The system is no more difficult to work on that any other, and as said by others, the other motorcycle manufacturers are also going canbus, because it works, and it works well.

    Canbus is NOT a one wire system, it is all about less wires and the flexibility to make the systems work more efficiently. But no amount of me saying so will change the minds of those who are against it.

    Just remember what has already been said, in a few years everyone will be lamenting the simplicity of the 2005 models in light of the complexity of the 2015 models.

    Once again, I am sorry if I offended anyone by disagreeing with them. It was my intention to illuminate, not disassociate.

    Jim

    PS How old does technology have to be to not be considered "Beta"? 20 years long enough, longer?
    Sorry about that spat too! I guess we are sometimes too passionate about our bikes to remain cool and collected.
    I am not against new technology and have many of the latest gadgets. It isn't that canbus is bad but does it really have a place on bikes?? How much weight are we saving?? 26 pounds between my 'old' GSA and the new ADV? Most of it from the engine and frame btw. Big deal!! . I love long distance riding and put 30K miles on a bike a year, often in very remote area's. I can at least deal with a fuse and a broken wiring harness if that were an issue. Other things can happen, I know, but I believe in KIS(S). YMMV

  13. #43
    On the Road RONDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltljohn View Post
    Can you provide a link for the GS-911??
    The mfg is located in South Africa
    http://www.hex.co.za/gs911/howtobuy.html

    The other link I posted was a write up on the tool.

    I like the idea of having this with me on long trips - just like my air pump & tire repair kit I hope I never need it and now that I have one I probably never will.

    Dave

  14. #44
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Funny how the terms "more reliable" and "maintenance free" are being confused.

    Points ignition isn't any more unreliable than electronic ignition; they're more maintenance intensive, and thats all. And when I'm in the middle of Iceland, I'd sooner have points, gravity feed fuel, etc. thank you.

    And progress is supposed to benefit me in the way of something...right. So what am I getting in my oilhead that I'm not in my airhead. More MPGs? Not...you just have to know how to tune airheads. More reliablility? Neither of them has left me stranded since I first bought a BMW in 1991.

  15. #45
    Loose Cannon flash412's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrylRi View Post
    Today, however, I discovered that my 1928 R52 isn't timed right. Fortunately, it's made of stone-axe reliable parts, so it's no problem to set the timing...
    *Remove the right head.
    Uh... how come you hafta remove the head to determine the timing? Wouldn't a dial indicator down the plug hole be a whole lot easier? Or, in the event that itsa flathead with the sparkie on the side (I dunno the R52), wouldn't a DEGREE WHEEL and some graph paper tell you exactly the same thing? And even if you hadda pull the head ONCE, wouldn't putting a MARK somewhere and using a degree wheel make it a LOT easier to time than pulling the head when the points are worn and the timing needs to be adjusted in the future?

    Inquiring minds wanna know.

    While we're talking about old bike timing, what's the difference between 12mm before TDC on compression and on overlap when the ignition is wasted spark? (Or even if it is NOT a wasted spark, on a twin with a 180?? crank?) Seems to me that in any case, it doesn't matter which head you pull or which stroke the cam is on when you set the timing. What am I missing? Thanks in advance.

    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Dr. Flash Gordon, M.D.
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