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An Inconvenient Truth

Global warming? With snow in Malibu? Ja, shure, joo bet.

IF (and I mean IF) global warming is a fact, who can prove it's caused by humans? After all, in the 1950's we thought Man could wipe out all life on the planet with nuclear weapons. Then scientists found life a mile down in bedrock and at the bottom of 6 miles of seawater and people realized we could kill ourselves but not sterilize a planet.

Having failed to reach the power level of the ancient gods we now look to global warming as proof of our powers. But is it due to CO2 buildup, or cattle flatulence? Wouldn't that be just desserts? Cow pharts over industrialization!

And the Ozone hole... 50 years is not nearly enough time to say that it's not perfectly natural.

If people cause global warming the only real way to reduce the problem is to reduce the planet's overall burden of people. Pure and simple, and very un-PC.
 
What the heck difference does it make whether or not humans are the sole contributor, or even a major contributor, to the uncontroverted evidence that our planet is getting warmer, year after year? I don't think I've seen any argument in this threat that human activity has zero contribution to global warming, so there seems to be consensus that humans have at least some impact.

I posted earlier on this thread, and few seemed to notice, that even if humans have ZERO contribution to global warming, converting our economy and infrastructure from one centered on burning hydrocarbons to one independent of fossil fuels has all sorts of positive benefits - to the quality of the air, to the life expectancy of the average Army Ranger, to the quality of the water we drink, to the quality of the food we eat, to the life expectancy of the average human.

If we do the things we have to do (turn off lights in unoccupied rooms, set the thermostat to 68 degrees, drive a Honda instead of a Hummer, ride a 1200cc BMW instead of a ~1600cc Harley, demand that our government raise the CAFE standards, stop subsidizing the oil industry - the list of things we can do individually and collectively is very long.

If we stop burning hydrocarbons, we may not save the polar bear, but we may save homo sapiens.
 
Whatever...

Not a single post that I saw discussed the role of the AMO, AO, NAO, PDO, EPO, MJO, role of solar flux levels, Atlantic Basin Thermohaline Circulation (if I spelled that right, you know where has just frozen over in spite of "warming") etc. Don't know what I'm typing about? Go look it up. Danged if I'm going to do your work for you.

A couple of you yammered about El Nino - its real name is ENSO - El Nino Southern Oscillation. BTW, the "el nino" is rapidly dropping to a very weak state. That'd be a big player in the recent return to chillier weather in the east. As for the warm Canadian, if I were you and weather were a stock, I'd be shorting that warmness in Canookville.

Warming or not? Who knows. I'm fairly certain that I don't know and I'm even more sure none of you know as I've seen very, very little evidence of anyone stepping outside their political roles here.

Assuming it is warming - why does that have to be a disaster??? Populations, foodstuffs and organized societies rose during a long warm spell that generally coincided with the Roman Empire. The "RE" pretty much ran its course leading into a long cold spell ("Dark Age") that appears to have been made worse by our old friend, the volcano in Indonesia....back to rising populations, big time migrations due to population growth and rising prosperity, etc during the medieval warm spell...back to troubles (Black Death, political turmoil, etc) leading into the "Little Ice Age" which we are just now finally exiting.

Where be your evidence that warming is a big problem - and I mean evidence from folks without a political, control & taxation agenda????

Finally for those of you who truly have no idea what you are bloviating about, google "Younger Dryas". IF warming leads to melting, could shut off the Atlantic heat conveyor for a few years leading to drastic cooling before big warmup. Enjoy being afraid of something you have absolutely no control over...

:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
 
Well, well. It's a true skeptic.

The true problem with global warming (in case you haven't seen An Inconvenient Truth or just completely missed the point) is that the weather patterns will become increasingly potent and unpredicatable. The North Atlantic Thermohaline is the perfect example of the instability that can come to our planet because of warming. When Europe freezes over, where are all those people going to go? And where is the food to support them going to be grown?

Human existence requires a certain, narrow climate to support itself. Whether we have an effect on it or not, it appears as though there are changes, for the worse, in the works. Everyone wants to fight over whether it's us or not. These people are truely missing the point, just like you DOCZ. I think that the smart move would be to FIND OUT IF IT'S US BY REDUCING THOSE PRODUCTS WE THINK ARE THE PROBLEM. Never mind sunspots, orbital fluxtuations, alien heat lazers- we have the obligation to future generations to stop this madness and truely find out how much influence we have over this global warming thing.

Wouldn't it suck to find out we could have prevented it, when it's too late?

Judging by your post, full of acronyms and refusing to bring information to the argument, I'll say you haven't seen An Inconvenient Truth. At least, you weren't paying attention if you did.

Perhaps you should also READ Big Coal. There's also a bunch of somewhat startling information there too.



DocZ said:
Not a single post that I saw discussed the role of the AMO, AO, NAO, PDO, EPO, MJO, role of solar flux levels, Atlantic Basin Thermohaline Circulation (if I spelled that right, you know where has just frozen over in spite of "warming") etc. Don't know what I'm typing about? Go look it up. Danged if I'm going to do your work for you.

A couple of you yammered about El Nino - its real name is ENSO - El Nino Southern Oscillation. BTW, the "el nino" is rapidly dropping to a very weak state. That'd be a big player in the recent return to chillier weather in the east. As for the warm Canadian, if I were you and weather were a stock, I'd be shorting that warmness in Canookville.

Warming or not? Who knows. I'm fairly certain that I don't know and I'm even more sure none of you know as I've seen very, very little evidence of anyone stepping outside their political roles here.

Assuming it is warming - why does that have to be a disaster??? Populations, foodstuffs and organized societies rose during a long warm spell that generally coincided with the Roman Empire. The "RE" pretty much ran its course leading into a long cold spell ("Dark Age") that appears to have been made worse by our old friend, the volcano in Indonesia....back to rising populations, big time migrations due to population growth and rising prosperity, etc during the medieval warm spell...back to troubles (Black Death, political turmoil, etc) leading into the "Little Ice Age" which we are just now finally exiting.

Where be your evidence that warming is a big problem - and I mean evidence from folks without a political, control & taxation agenda????

Finally for those of you who truly have no idea what you are bloviating about, google "Younger Dryas". IF warming leads to melting, could shut off the Atlantic heat conveyor for a few years leading to drastic cooling before big warmup. Enjoy being afraid of something you have absolutely no control over...

:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
Click to expand...
 
The big global warming will come from the presses printing all the money the politicians will claim we have to pay in taxes to solve this non-problem. Heck, even the UN has now admitted that methane and amonia from grazing cattle are a bigger problem than CO2 from SUVs.
 
R80andR100RT said:
The big global warming will come from the presses printing all the money the politicians will claim we have to pay in taxes to solve this non-problem. Heck, even the UN has now admitted that methane and amonia from grazing cattle are a bigger problem than CO2 from SUVs.
Click to expand...

Even if the cattle are causing this, it's still our fault. We are breeding so many to keep up with demand for meat. We will have to moooove from a beef-based economy to a chicken-based one. Surely it's just a complex ploy by both the left and right wings of the chicken government.

Now where did I put that steak??? :D
 
There is a lot of technology out there that our government does not want people to get their hands on. Do you realize the economic implications if we could fuel internal combustion engines with water?
I strongly feel that the technology is out there for such a fuel. I also feel that there is a cure for cancer and AIDS. Look at the economic implications on the pharmecutical companies?
It seems as though our government is withholding valuable information on a certain number of technological breakthroughs. I could go on for years on a lot of speculation and conspiracy theories.
I guess all we can do is enjoy what we have now. It may not be here tomorrow. I
pity the future.

Carp'e De Im
PC
 
patcarol said:
It seems as though our government is withholding valuable information on a certain number of technological breakthroughs. I could go on for years on a lot of speculation and conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

Ever notice that if you're rich and have HIV, you can now live (seemingly) for a very, VERY long time. Think Magic Johnson. There is more money in a treatment, than a cure. I wonder if this is the direction cancer is going; soon you'll just have to take 30 pills a day to keep it from getting worse, and you can live a "normal" life. "Normal" if you are a millionaire to afford the drugs, of course.
 
Heck, even the UN has now admitted that methane and amonia from grazing cattle are a bigger problem than CO2 from SUVs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that because the UN knows that EACH AND EVERY coal fired power plant built emits more CO2 in a year than ALL THE VEHICLES SOLD BY GM that same year. SUVs are a comparitively small part of the pollution problem- and you can thank the emissions restrictions passed by our law makers for that.

I don't know what to say about the cows. Perhaps we should eat them.
 
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