A BMW Fix to Surging R1100 Series Bikes

Received the Flux Capacitor Saturday. via USPS.
No lift handles on early '95 R1100R's.
You grab the frame.
Will investigate further on the L/H side of bike, Monday.
Parts box had been opened prior to me receiving the part. Calling them tomorrow and making sure this is Fresh, and NOT a test unit.
Thanks for the help!

It's just amazing how this stuff gets 'discovered' every few years.
You guys need to read through all of the articles on ibmwr.org specifically this one:
http://ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11inj-surging-fixes.shtml
Rob and I did a LOT of experimenting when I bought my early R1100RT in Oct '95.
The CO Potentiometer is only good if you have access to an EGA tester.

irv? ,

Thanks for the input.

bmwmick said:

It's just amazing how this stuff gets 'discovered' every few years.
You guys need to read through all of the articles on ibmwr.org specifically this one:
http://ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11inj-surging-fixes.shtml
Rob and I did a LOT of experimenting when I bought my early R1100RT in Oct '95.
The CO Potentiometer is only good if you have access to an EGA tester.

irv? ,

Click to expand...

This article is factually incorrect in many of the areas. Rob wrote:

1. R1100RS without cat, no CCP connections, CO pot installed:

Best overall power
No surging
Significantly higher emissions
Converter damage likely
Poor fuel consumption

This is not correct. The R1100 series motors were produced in open and closed-loop. Although the US versions in closed-loop have lower emissions (1.5 CO +/- .5), the open-loop models used everywhere else in the world were not horrible polluters. By disconnecting 02 sensor, removing the CCP and installing the OEM Bosch CO Potentiometer, the ECU will use the European map producing approximately 1.8 CO. Although higher than in closed-loop, the total CO emissions in not all that significant since BMW clearly states CO is +/- .5%.

It is also factually incorrect to state "The CO Potentiometer is only good if you have access to an EGA tester." I would agree that BMW recommends using a EGA to adjust. However, a CO Potentiometer only has one adjustment screw. If you turn the screw down to where the bike is idling at 1100 RPMs, you will be very close to the 1.8 CO.

I hate to discredit an article written by a guy that is no longer with us and unable to defend. However, what Rob is discribing leads one to believe the bike is running at well over 4 CO. This is what would happen if you disconnected the CCP without doing anything else. However, it is not the case when a CO Potentiometer is connected. When you connect a CO Potentiometer to the BMW provided electrical connector, the ECU will use the European mapping at approximately 1.8 CO. The adjustment screw will only increase or decrease the CO by a small margin. At 1.8 CO, you won't hurt the catalytic converter.

As stated earlier in this post, my RT gas mileage is about the same as a closed-loop bike and the stock BMW plugs are consistantly burning right. Since the bike is now open-loop, the closed-loop lean fuel hunting or surge no longer exists. This is really what one should expect, since most of the R1100 series motors were open-loop. This is simply converting to the European standard.

This article is factually incorrect in many of the areas. Rob wrote:

1. R1100RS without cat, no CCP connections, CO pot installed:

Best overall power
No surging
Significantly higher emissions
Converter damage likely
Poor fuel consumption

This is not correct. The R1100 series motors were produced in open and closed-loop. Although the US versions in closed-loop have lower emissions (1.5 CO +/- .5), the open-loop models used everywhere else in the world were not horrible polluters. By disconnecting 02 sensor, removing the CCP and installing the CO Potentiometer, the ECU will use the European map producing approximately 1.8 CO. Although higher than in closed-loop, the total CO emissions in not all that significant since BMW clearly states CO is +/- .5%.

Kenk,
You are wrong for a LOT of reasons. BMW states that the SPEC is 1.5% +/-.5 CO. That is the value you ADJUST the CO Pot for, it isn't automatic

It is also factually incorrect to state "The CO Potentiometer is only good if you have access to an EGA tester." I would agree that BMW recommends using a EGA to adjust. However, a CO Potentiometer only has one adjustment screw. If you turn the screw down to where the bike is idling at 1100 RPMs, you will be very close to the 1.8 CO.

How can you arbitrarily say 1,100RPM is the correct CO content???? It matters where the TPS is set and where the air-bleed screws are set. The only way to set the CO Pot correctly is to use an Exhaust Gas Analyzer

I hate to discredit an article written by a guy that is no longer with us and unable to defend. However, what Rob is discribing leads one to believe the bike is running at well over 4 CO. This is what would happen if you disconnected the CCP without doing anything else. However, it is not the case when a CO Potentiometer is connected. When you connect a CO Potentiometer to the BMW provided electrical connector, the ECU will use the European mapping at approximately 1.8 CO. The adjustment screw will only increase or decrease the CO by a small margin.

Rob wasn't pulling these values outta his a$$, the bike was being monitored by an EGA machine (at the local dealer) at the time he was doing his experiments.

As stated earlier in this post, my RT gas mileage is about the same as a closed-loop bike and the stock BMW plugs are consistantly burning right. Since the bike is now open-loop, the lean fuel hunting or surge no longe exists. This is really what one should expect, since most of the R1100 series motors were open-loop and the ECU was designed to run this way. This is simply converting to the European standard.

I run with no CCP and slightly advanced timing, TPS at 0.485V and FR7DCX Bosch copper core plugs. No surging and 42-45MPG if I can keep it under 80MPH(which is difficult in AZ). AZ used to make us go through emissions testing each year but most of us are now exempt. My bike never went above 2.4%CO in 9 years of testing. With no CAT and my O2 Sensor is still connected and working.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree.

You stated...... "You are wrong for a LOT of reasons. BMW states that the SPEC is 1.5% +/-.5 CO. That is the value you ADJUST the CO Pot for, it isn't automatic". You are confusing BMW closed-loop setting (1.5%) with open-loop. In closed-loop, there isn't a CO POT to adust.

I don't doubt Rob's readings were what he stated. I do believe his methods were flawed. By pulling the CCP with an 02 sensor still connected, you will record CO readings over 4%. However, with an CCP removed, 02 sensor disconnected and Bosch CO POT connected in the BMW electrical connection, the ECU will default to approximately 1.8%. Take my word on this one...I have installed and tested a Bosch CO POT and you obviously have not. The large brass screws and Bosch CO POT will move an EGA by very small percentages. I am also not pulling these number out of my backside. With your bike idling at 1100 RPMs, there is simply no way you can increase CO to 4% by adjusting these two settings. My CO readings are 1.8%. That was acheived without the benefit of an EGA prior to adjustment.

Granted, it's alway better to use an EGA when connecting a CO POT or Techlusion device. However, many folks have installed Techlusion without the benefit of an EGA during installation and have achieved great results. Unlike a Techlusion where you are actually extending the duration the fuel injector is open, a BOSCH CO POT uses BMW ECU mapping developed by BMW engineers. So, a Bosch CO Pot is much easier to install and much less sensitive than a Techlusion. Believe me on this one. I helped Mark Dobeck test all of his Techlusion products on BMWs and co-wrote an article with Paul Glaves on Techlusions several years ago in BMW ON. You will also find an old Techlusion 83i article I wrote on IBMWR.com.

IMHO, there is never a good reason to change the factory set TPS or advance the timing to address a surging problem. I don't know of a single BMW dealer or mechanic that would disagree with me on this point.

Irv

Will the IRV plug in a 99 R1100S ?
Thanks

kenk said:

Well, we will have to agree to disagree.

Click to expand...

Yep!

irv

I was looking at the Chilton wiring diagram , and there appears to be no connection coming off the motronic to plug the IRV in. 99R1100S

Was just getting ready to look at a '95 R1100RA with 27,000 miles on it. The owner says he stopped the surging with a Techlusion box, should I believe him???? It's in California, ( no smog check) so, how could I tell if the cat is bad, if other methods were tried before the Techlusion box? Reading all this, makes me want to go back to my old Air Head....

180pilot said:

Was just getting ready to look at a '95 R1100RA with 27,000 miles on it. The owner says he stopped the surging with a Techlusion box, should I believe him???? It's in California, ( no smog check) so, how could I tell if the cat is bad, if other methods were tried before the Techlusion box? Reading all this, makes me want to go back to my old Air Head....

Click to expand...

I too have a '95 R1100RA....and I have tried a techlusion .....and yes , it will stop most surging....but it will run real rich......

I tried this and then took a good look at the piston/cylinderhead...too rich....I used a couple of water torture treatments to clean it up, removed the techlusion and now just run stock without any surging....it jsut takes a very good tuneup to run well......

I'm guessing that the BMW potentiometer is probably pretty good too.....but the bike still needs to be well tuned to run right....

Thanks, I notice a lot of heat indications on the bikes pipes too, is that normal?



Pipe below head is very blue.
Is the pot best way to stop surging, or should I just forget this bike?

180pilot said:

Thanks, I notice a lot of heat indications on the bikes pipes too, is that normal?

Pipe below head is very blue.
Is the pot best way to stop surging, or should I just forget this bike?

Click to expand...

Dark is normal......can be slightly polished....but these SS pipes will always discolor......

If its had good oil change care and it shifts well and the clutch is OK.....and the wheels are not dinged.....and most important....YOU LIKE IT...

sounds good to me....

Surging report 2001 R1100R

I posted this on 08/29 as a separate post, but I decided to re-post as part of this renewed thread:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I installed the idle potentiometer today, removed a pink ccp plug and disconnected the O2 sensor. I set the pot clockwise until the idle stabilized which I assume is as lean as possible with a stable idle. This happened at about 1100 RPM's on the bike tach.. I do not have an exhaust gas analyzer so I don't know what the CO is at idle. I assume the basic map will keep the CO at 1.8% above idle.
The bike runs great! The idle is stable and there is absolutely no surging.
I will watch the plugs over the next several hundred miles and see what happens with the gas mileage also.
I do have a few questions for anyone who has done this conversion:

-If I damage the converter, what does that mean? Will the exhaust plug up?

-I understand from prior readings that I am now running the "European map." Did they run a converter with this map?

-Does the pot only control the mixture at idle or is there a "bleed over" effect on higher RPM running?

-Should I remove The O2 sensor and plug the hole to preserve the sensor for potential future use?

-If I "gut " the cat, how much louder is it?

I really can't be4lieve that , after two years of ownership, this bike is finally running great. This is really much easier than a Teclusion!

Thanks!

Paul

Update:
After 120 miles, the plugs are still pure white (3923's) and the mileage was 40mpg with bags and trunk.
I'm Happy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by shakyone : 08-29-2007 at 11:58 AM.

shakyone said:

I posted this on 08/29 as a separate post, but I decided to re-post as part of this renewed thread:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I installed the idle potentiometer today, removed a pink ccp plug and disconnected the O2 sensor. I set the pot clockwise until the idle stabilized which I assume is as lean as possible with a stable idle. This happened at about 1100 RPM's on the bike tach.. I do not have an exhaust gas analyzer so I don't know what the CO is at idle. I assume the basic map will keep the CO at 1.8% above idle.
The bike runs great! The idle is stable and there is absolutely no surging.
I will watch the plugs over the next several hundred miles and see what happens with the gas mileage also.
I do have a few questions for anyone who has done this conversion:

-If I damage the converter, what does that mean? Will the exhaust plug up?

-I understand from prior readings that I am now running the "European map." Did they run a converter with this map?

-Does the pot only control the mixture at idle or is there a "bleed over" effect on higher RPM running?

-Should I remove The O2 sensor and plug the hole to preserve the sensor for potential future use?

-If I "gut " the cat, how much louder is it?

I really can't be4lieve that , after two years of ownership, this bike is finally running great. This is really much easier than a Teclusion!

Thanks!

Paul

Update:
After 120 miles, the plugs are still pure white (3923's) and the mileage was 40mpg with bags and trunk.
I'm Happy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by shakyone : 08-29-2007 at 11:58 AM.

Click to expand...

I'd be very concerned if my plugs were "pure white"....do they also have little bits or silver on them? If so, your bike is running too lean and you are depositing metal from the pistons on you plugs......the plugs should be a light tan.....

At least that is what I believe....anyone else think pure white is good??

no, you called it correct Jim. pure white is bad bad bad. way too lean. light tan is correct.