i must admit,ive been anti harley,but mosty because of 2 things.first,the badass look at me attitude.i know there are real riders on harleys,my buddys one of them,on his 07 roadglide,stock pipes,you must admit,the people with loud pipes,hanging at the bars,riding and drinking will mostly be on harleys,right?the second thing i dont like is the harley way of doing business.now,all of that said,im starting to change my mind a little and im realizing a few good things about them.there is a least one harley shop in every town,so getting to one is not a problem.they do seem more reliable these days too.with all this that ive been reading about bmw spline problems,frequent maintenance schedule,lack of dealerships,im starting to wonder if i should get one.bmws are also getting pretty expensive,so harleys price isnt really an issue anymore,is it?love my roadster,but now im a little worried about it breaking down on the road.
-
Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password. If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?
-
Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.
The Election forum is here: Election Forum
OfficerImpersonator
Seattle-area Rounder
I think the current popularity of Harleys is a fad that will fade. I've already noticed a few dealers in our neck of the woods closing up. When the fad really took off 5 years ago, all the Harley dealers spent tons of money building fancy new showrooms and shops. That's a lot of overhead to carry.
One reason you don't see that many BMW dealers selling new bikes is precisely because the damn bikes last so long. We all advertise our stable in our signature lines on our posts. For every bike made in the past five years, you'll see two bikes made in the 70's, 80's and 90's. If people keep riding the bikes you made 15 or 30 years ago, they won't be in the market for your latest model. Not that I'm not ready to pick up a K1200GT tomorrow if I win the lottery...
But I'm having a great time riding my 15 year old BMW. Unless I total it, I plan on riding it for many more years.
jacco
Riding Dutchman
Part of the problem is that you hear about every problem that there is nowadays. If BMW sells a hundred thousand bikes in NA, and 10 of them fail, you'll get 9 lengthy threads about these failures on this forum. (Which makes sense, I would be upset if my new $20k bike failed on me!) So read those threads and keep it in the back of your head, but don't let it keep you awake at night. Chances are high that yours will NOT leave you at the side of the road tomorrow...
Just my $0.02.
OfficerImpersonator
Seattle-area Rounder
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
The resurrection of this thread caused me to read most of the earlier posts. The original poster says he bought a relatively low-mileage RT-P from a "reputable dealer" and shortly thereafter his splines failed. The OP said the dealer advertised the bike as meticulously maintained.
If he had spent as much time harassing the dealer about selling him a lemon as he did sharing his problem with this forum, he might have been able to persuade the dealer to replace the bike's rear end for him, or allowed him to pick out another bike, or refunded his money.
Here in Washington State dealers are required to stand behind any claims of warranty or merchantability they make in the process of trying to sell a motor vehicle. If you're buying a used BMW from a BMW dealer, and they make claims about predicted reliability, ask them to put those claims in writing. If the bike is what they say it is, they should be willing to stand behind their spoken words with written words.
I think this guy could have gotten a better resolution that wouldn't have left such a bitter taste in his mouth about the brand if he had been a squeakier wheel to the dealer.
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
I don't understand why anyone would buy a former police vehicle and expect it to be dependable. Many policemen mistreat their assigned vehicles because they don't have to pay for the repairs and they are trained for high speed pursuit. My policeman and ex-policeman friends drive aggressively out of habit and training. If you find a low mileage police vehicle (whether it is a car or bike), there might be a reason. It might be sold early because of problems caused due to mistreatment by the user.
You might get a good and gently treated police vehicle because some users treat them well but you are rolling the dice if you don't know the history of past usage.
You might get a good and gently treated police vehicle because some users treat them well but you are rolling the dice if you don't know the history of past usage.
OfficerImpersonator
Seattle-area Rounder
I aspire to one day own a RT-P. My mechanic has the contract to maintain and repair the State Patrol bikes, so maybe he can tell me which one is in the best shape when they eventually wear out their service lives and are auctioned off.
But - I'll know that I'm buying a retired police bike. A bike that has been ridden hard in extreme conditions. But also a bike that has been maintained by the same guy - a guy I trust - since it was new.
Every car, truck, boat, plane and motorcycle model ever sold will have glitches that apply to the entire manufacturer's product line, defects that apply to the specific model in question, and problems that apply to that bike and that bike only.
If it's one or both of the first two reasons, buyer beware. If it's the last reason, then you'll have to address the problems with the seller/dealer. Seems to me like this is a combination of all three - BMW splines are considered by some to be fragile. Some R bikes are known to have output shafts that are out of alignment with the tranny. This particular bike was touted as well-maintained and trouble-free. So the buyer likely used the dealer's representations to overcome his apprehension over the known history of the make and model.
If the buyer based his decision to purchase on the representations of the dealer, than his issue is with the dealer and not with the manufacturer.
But - I'll know that I'm buying a retired police bike. A bike that has been ridden hard in extreme conditions. But also a bike that has been maintained by the same guy - a guy I trust - since it was new.
Every car, truck, boat, plane and motorcycle model ever sold will have glitches that apply to the entire manufacturer's product line, defects that apply to the specific model in question, and problems that apply to that bike and that bike only.
If it's one or both of the first two reasons, buyer beware. If it's the last reason, then you'll have to address the problems with the seller/dealer. Seems to me like this is a combination of all three - BMW splines are considered by some to be fragile. Some R bikes are known to have output shafts that are out of alignment with the tranny. This particular bike was touted as well-maintained and trouble-free. So the buyer likely used the dealer's representations to overcome his apprehension over the known history of the make and model.
If the buyer based his decision to purchase on the representations of the dealer, than his issue is with the dealer and not with the manufacturer.
I noticed the MSRP on BMW's is now higher than the Harley. That tends to level the field for me. There also seems to be a dealer with a large billboard every hundred miles or so across the whole country. No worry about getting tires on a trip. That being said my '05 ST1300 Honda is about to turn 50K and has never been to the dealer. All servicing is as easy and user friendly as an airhead.
robert ride to eat. st honda gs&rt bmw
robert ride to eat. st honda gs&rt bmw
Bud
It is what it is.
Let's see, last year they sold over 325,000. Sure sounds like they are fading fast to me.
Oh, and don't forget when BMW was going to enter the cruiser market? What happened? Don't sell them anymore? Seems like Harley did ok in that contest.
globalrider
Alps Adventurer
You mean you need a new "input" shaft.
You know, I've owned quite a few vehicles during my life. Some of them with high miles and needing a new clutch/pressure plate assembly.
Not one of them had their splines lubed in their entire lives...and not one of them needed a new transmission input shaft due to worn out splines.
So what is it with this BS BMW spline lube requirement??? And yes, I do know about fretting damage.
brownie
Member
Wow!!!!!! What a thread.................
Not my first exposure to Beemer reliability bashing, but certainly eye-opening. Guess I'm still a crazy loyalist, have only had 4 Beemers, and still have #2.
Hope my RT (32K) turns out to be as reliable as my RS (130K). Nearest Dealer is 240 mi, 2d nearest 250 mi. Both are a pleasure to deal with.
75-80 F this week in L.A.
Not my first exposure to Beemer reliability bashing, but certainly eye-opening. Guess I'm still a crazy loyalist, have only had 4 Beemers, and still have #2.
Hope my RT (32K) turns out to be as reliable as my RS (130K). Nearest Dealer is 240 mi, 2d nearest 250 mi. Both are a pleasure to deal with.
75-80 F this week in L.A.
Panhead_Jim
New member
I've read the entire thread..
and I can't see where this has anything whatever to do with Harley reliability. Ya'll get off Harley. They are reliable, period. Maybe a couple of world wars, mud, sand, fighting, you know the drill, might do it for you. Look, you either work on your own stuff, or you don't. If you depend on a DEALER, you basically suck. Get a wrench, maybe a crescrent, and start. What a pitiful bunch. If you buy a used police bike, take the consequences. POLICE. I'm sorry to be harsh. Sheesh.
and I can't see where this has anything whatever to do with Harley reliability. Ya'll get off Harley. They are reliable, period. Maybe a couple of world wars, mud, sand, fighting, you know the drill, might do it for you. Look, you either work on your own stuff, or you don't. If you depend on a DEALER, you basically suck. Get a wrench, maybe a crescrent, and start. What a pitiful bunch. If you buy a used police bike, take the consequences. POLICE. I'm sorry to be harsh. Sheesh.
greenwald
New member
BMW vs. Harley
I spent the last seven years as a nationally-certified Police Motor Officer, putting more miles on per year with a Harley-Davidson Road King than the average Harley owner does. Problems and breakdowns were frequent, and it hardly performed like the "King of the Road," as it's namesake implies.
I also was assigned for a week to Harley's 100th Annniversary celebration in Milwaukee in 2003, and mingled with 124 other motor officers from around the nation, all on Harleys. Each evening, they would swap their favorite breakdown stories (I had to remain silent - I owned a Honda Pacific Coast at the time, and typical of a metric bike, I had no horrific breakdown tale to tell).
I would concede that H-D is making progress in upgrading their quality, but they are still light years behind the metric industry, and certainly BMW. I may not always own a Beemer, but even mentioning H-D in the same sentence will always make me wince a little.
I spent the last seven years as a nationally-certified Police Motor Officer, putting more miles on per year with a Harley-Davidson Road King than the average Harley owner does. Problems and breakdowns were frequent, and it hardly performed like the "King of the Road," as it's namesake implies.I also was assigned for a week to Harley's 100th Annniversary celebration in Milwaukee in 2003, and mingled with 124 other motor officers from around the nation, all on Harleys. Each evening, they would swap their favorite breakdown stories (I had to remain silent - I owned a Honda Pacific Coast at the time, and typical of a metric bike, I had no horrific breakdown tale to tell).
I would concede that H-D is making progress in upgrading their quality, but they are still light years behind the metric industry, and certainly BMW. I may not always own a Beemer, but even mentioning H-D in the same sentence will always make me wince a little.
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by osbornk
I don't understand why anyone would buy a former police vehicle and expect it to be dependable. Many policemen mistreat their assigned vehicles because they don't have to pay for the repairs and they are trained for high speed pursuit. My policeman and ex-policeman friends drive aggressively out of habit and training. If you find a low mileage police vehicle (whether it is a car or bike), there might be a reason. It might be sold early because of problems caused due to mistreatment by the user.
You might get a good and gently treated police vehicle because some users treat them well but you are rolling the dice if you don't know the history of past usage.
My post had nothing to do with Harley. The thread was started about a BMW. What made you think it did? Your statement that "Harleys are reliable" might be a little of a stretch. A more accurate statement might have been "Some Harleys are reliable" or "Most late model Harleys are reliable" .
Originally Posted by osbornk
I don't understand why anyone would buy a former police vehicle and expect it to be dependable. Many policemen mistreat their assigned vehicles because they don't have to pay for the repairs and they are trained for high speed pursuit. My policeman and ex-policeman friends drive aggressively out of habit and training. If you find a low mileage police vehicle (whether it is a car or bike), there might be a reason. It might be sold early because of problems caused due to mistreatment by the user.
You might get a good and gently treated police vehicle because some users treat them well but you are rolling the dice if you don't know the history of past usage.
My post had nothing to do with Harley. The thread was started about a BMW. What made you think it did? Your statement that "Harleys are reliable" might be a little of a stretch. A more accurate statement might have been "Some Harleys are reliable" or "Most late model Harleys are reliable" .
wezul
Cage Rattler
+1
I have to agree, I'm no wrenchhead, not the least bit interested, I own a bike to ride.
If I depend on a dealer I suck? man, where are you coming from?
I have to agree, I'm no wrenchhead, not the least bit interested, I own a bike to ride.
MOTOR31
New member
Look at the authors avatar and handle. See the harley connection? I suppose in a lot of Eastern areas the harley has been the typical Police bike. In the area I worked it wasn't. A few Officers in other Departments that could buy their own bike and lease it back to the Dept. got a harley and some got a wing.
Where I worked we went to an effort to insure harley was not selected as long as there was the kawasaki in spite of the offer by harley to severely discount the bikes to undercut kawasaki. We needed to do this as the bean counters would choose based on price alone. Other than the fact that the kaw went faster, lasted longer, stopped quicker, cost less, turned tighter and required a fraction of the maintenance the harley did, the harley compared pretty favorably in the 80's and 90's.
That won't sit well with a harley fan but that doesn't change the situation. Now that the kaw has been discontinued the department is switching to the harley since it can be obtained cheaper than the bmw and they feel for municipal duty the harley performs a bit better. I'm sure the bmw guys here won't like that either but it's the way the city and Department made their choice.
Where I worked we went to an effort to insure harley was not selected as long as there was the kawasaki in spite of the offer by harley to severely discount the bikes to undercut kawasaki. We needed to do this as the bean counters would choose based on price alone. Other than the fact that the kaw went faster, lasted longer, stopped quicker, cost less, turned tighter and required a fraction of the maintenance the harley did, the harley compared pretty favorably in the 80's and 90's.
That won't sit well with a harley fan but that doesn't change the situation. Now that the kaw has been discontinued the department is switching to the harley since it can be obtained cheaper than the bmw and they feel for municipal duty the harley performs a bit better. I'm sure the bmw guys here won't like that either but it's the way the city and Department made their choice.
D
Daver90s
Guest
kbasa
Well-known member
Tina's got me on a temporary vehicle moratorium.
She seems to think I need to get the R100 fixed, put my CB750 back together and finish paying for the RT.
Similar threads
