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Thread: Battery - Lithium or AGM

  1. #16
    Dances With Sheep GREGFEELER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormike View Post
    I've used several Shorai batteries in my bikes over the years. They seemingly last forever, especially when compared to lead-acid AGM batteries. The light weight is just a bonus. Never had any problem keeping them charged using the bikes electrical system. Having said that, if your bike has any parasitic draw, like an alarm system, a Lithium battery can be pulled down faster than a comparable AGM. The only other downside is cost (but if they last 3-4 times as long as an AGM, they pay for themselves) and they don't tolerate colder temperatures as well as a lead-acid battery.
    Could you expand a little on "seemingly last forever"? Like how many years have they lasted for you? Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackskelly34 View Post
    Certainly a lithium battery will cause your motorbike to spontaneously combust like a Boeing 787 Dreamliner. Right?
    Or simply explode in a magnificent fireball when pressing the starter button in freezing temperatures. Right?

    .
    Not the same Lithium battery in the Boeing 787(Lithium Ion) vs LiFePo4. Lithium Ion is the stuff used in cell phones etc...that are known to ignite. Not the same as LiFePo4. Which is what this thread is about.
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  3. #18

    Cool

    I prefer Li Ion. I have them in all my bikes. (2014 GSA; 2015 wing F6B; 2008 ZG1400; 1986 ZG1000) PRO - lighter, no mess, more durable if cared for. CON - more expensive, special charger, more sensitive to complete discharge.

    In my GSA, I went with an Antigravity ATX12-HD. Heavy Duty, 8Ah, Lithium with Built in Re-Start. Yes this is physically larger but with minor trimming of the bottom foam plate, it fits well. Do not install without foam underneath for trail shock adsorbtion.

    Re-Start is the manufacturer's tech that trips an internal breaker to retain enough juice to start the bike if a battery drain lowers power level to a determined voltage. Same tech stops a rider or tech from running the battery to complete discharge, there by protecting the unit from what computer techs often ref to as an "I D 10 T" error. Pronounced "I D ten T" but looks alot like idiot. ��

    The reset button is on the top so to get to the button the battery has to come out. Antigravity has and expensive addon to get past this but don't get it. I found the same reset can be obtained by simply breaking the circuit. I do this by simply disconnecting/replacing the exposed negative battery terminal cable. I have only used this option once on the trail in AK. Yes, it was user error but most of us make one of those now and then.

    Hope that helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GREGFEELER View Post
    Could you expand a little on "seemingly last forever"? Like how many years have they lasted for you? Thanks.
    I put a Shorai battery in a 2001 ZX-12 I had when lithium batteries first came out. It was still in the bike when I sold it a year ago, so I'd say it lasted what...12 years and still going? I also have one in an old Ducati ST4 that must be 6 or 7 years old now, still works, although that bike has a small parasitic draw that requires I keep the battery on a trickle charger. All my sport bikes had Shorai batterys in them...zero problems as long as it was above freezing out. I'm old enough now that I no longer ride sport bikes like I used to and they have all been sold except the Ducati. I would hesitate to put a lithium battery in a touring bike where you might wake up in a hotel in the mountains with frost on the ground. There's a "warming" ritual Shorai wants you to go through before starting in cold temperatures, but I've come VERY close to a no-start condition in unexpected below freezing temps on a couple of rides.

  5. #20
    Dances With Sheep GREGFEELER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormike View Post
    I put a Shorai battery in a 2001 ZX-12 I had when lithium batteries first came out. It was still in the bike when I sold it a year ago, so I'd say it lasted what...12 years and still going? I also have one in an old Ducati ST4 that must be 6 or 7 years old now, still works, although that bike has a small parasitic draw that requires I keep the battery on a trickle charger. All my sport bikes had Shorai batterys in them...zero problems as long as it was above freezing out. I'm old enough now that I no longer ride sport bikes like I used to and they have all been sold except the Ducati. I would hesitate to put a lithium battery in a touring bike where you might wake up in a hotel in the mountains with frost on the ground. There's a "warming" ritual Shorai wants you to go through before starting in cold temperatures, but I've come VERY close to a no-start condition in unexpected below freezing temps on a couple of rides.
    That sounds like very good service life indeed. I get about the same performance from the Odyssey batteries I've been using and they have never done a sudden death on me. Thanks for sharing this info.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1200crazy View Post
    Any one recently tried or are using a Lithium battery for their K1200? Pros / Cons? I need to replace my battery now and am torn between the two.
    I don't have a K but came across this while looking for a Garmin battery. A bit late for you, but useful to others...

    My opinion having worked in a battery lab for years and using common sense. My 2016 R1200 GSA needed a battery this past September and looking at the battery date code, I got 7 years 4+ months out of the original BMW-YUASA battery. A short life in my books and it is an AGM battery, my first AGM battery in any vehicle.

    I replaced it with the same YUASA YTZ14S for US$92 (it was on sale). I highly doubt you can get a quality Li-Ion battery for double that and I highly doubt I'll get double the life out of it or nearly 15 years. I look at cost vs service time.

    Typically I get 9 full years out of a seasonal motorcycle battery and 14 and 16 years out of a car battery. Both of them were conventional flooded lead acid batteries and none of this high-tech crap.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    I don't have a K but came across this while looking for a Garmin battery. A bit late for you, but useful to others...

    My opinion having worked in a battery lab for years and using common sense. My 2016 R1200 GSA needed a battery this past September and looking at the battery date code, I got 7 years 4+ months out of the original BMW-YUASA battery. A short life in my books and it is an AGM battery, my first AGM battery in any vehicle.

    I replaced it with the same YUASA YTZ14S for US$92 (it was on sale). I highly doubt you can get a quality Li-Ion battery for double that and I highly doubt I'll get double the life out of it or nearly 15 years. I look at cost vs service time.

    Typically I get 9 full years out of a seasonal motorcycle battery and 14 and 16 years out of a car battery. Both of them were conventional flooded lead acid batteries and none of this high-tech crap.
    What do you do that you believe gives you such long life from your batteries that others may not be doing? Fourteen to sixteen years out of a car battery is *very* impressive, and I've only gotten nine years or more out of a bike battery after I switched to Odyssey. Thanks.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GREGFEELER View Post
    What do you do that you believe gives you such long life from your batteries that others may not be doing? Fourteen to sixteen years out of a car battery is *very* impressive, and I've only gotten nine years or more out of a bike battery after I switched to Odyssey. Thanks.
    For starters, they are conventional batteries meaning I can add distilled water every two years or so. BTW, there is no such thing as a "maintenance free" battery. They all need to be charged and maintained in the off season or while parked for long periods. Obviously a GEL and AGM cannot really be opened up.

    I have vehicle charging systems that operate correctly based on voltage and temperature and battery type (which does not change because I use the same battery chemistry for replacements). I have a voltmeter in all of my cars & motorcycles. The R100 GS has been stored for years, but it will get a voltmeter when it is back on the road. By the way, none of my cars were ever on a battery maintainer and they were parked for 6 weeks at a time.

    I do not live in the deep south and need to put up with ultra-high temperatures which is a battery killer. I see -15F to 85F. General rule is every 8C above standard 25C (I think it was) cuts battery life in half.

    Other than that, I do not let the battery voltage drop below ~12.5V and I buy quality batteries. I also do not leave my batteries on a maintainer all the time unless I am gone for very long periods and cannot monitor them. My YTZ14S probably died early likely because it was always on a maintainer. I prefer to spot charge the batteries and then disconnect the charger. And if they are not used, I disconnect the battery to reduce drains.

    My BMW Mareg battery in my R100 GS always lasted 9 full years.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    For starters, they are conventional batteries meaning I can add distilled water every two years or so. BTW, there is no such thing as a "maintenance free" battery. They all need to be charged and maintained in the off season or while parked for long periods. Obviously a GEL and AGM cannot really be opened up.

    I have vehicle charging systems that operate correctly based on voltage and temperature and battery type (which does not change because I use the same battery chemistry for replacements). I have a voltmeter in all of my cars & motorcycles. The R100 GS has been stored for years, but it will get a voltmeter when it is back on the road. By the way, none of my cars were ever on a battery maintainer and they were parked for 6 weeks at a time.

    I do not live in the deep south and need to put up with ultra-high temperatures which is a battery killer. I see -15F to 85F. General rule is every 8C above standard 25C (I think it was) cuts battery life in half.

    Other than that, I do not let the battery voltage drop below ~12.5V and I buy quality batteries. I also do not leave my batteries on a maintainer all the time unless I am gone for very long periods and cannot monitor them. My YTZ14S probably died early likely because it was always on a maintainer. I prefer to spot charge the batteries and then disconnect the charger. And if they are not used, I disconnect the battery to reduce drains.

    My BMW Mareg battery in my R100 GS always lasted 9 full years.
    Living in Az. temps for months at a time are over 100F [ I think this year it was over 100 days over 100F, we see 110+F for a week or two every summer. Regarding the bolded. That would suggest my batteries lasting 5 years out here in the motors would have a lifespan of over 10 years if your calculations are correct and I lived in BC.

    When living in NE, my batts would last 5 years as well on the motors and maybe 7 in the cages. Not much of a difference in the world I've lived in. I never got 10 years out of a motor battery.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    Living in Az. temps for months at a time are over 100F [ I think this year it was over 100 days over 100F, we see 110+F for a week or two every summer. Regarding the bolded. That would suggest my batteries lasting 5 years out here in the motors would have a lifespan of over 10 years if your calculations are correct and I lived in BC.
    Its been 10 years since I retired from the battery lab and I had to check on the above that I had written about temperature. Close enough....

    BU-806a: How Heat and Loading affect Battery Life

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    Its been 10 years since I retired from the battery lab and I had to check on the above that I had written about temperature. Close enough....

    BU-806a: How Heat and Loading affect Battery Life
    Thx for the link sir
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